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Do we really need a calories surplus to gain muscle on High Doses of AAS

jeroendebleser

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I've never been able to eat enough really, nor have I been able to keep to a food surplus diet for more than a few weeks. I still grew a good amount without a lot of food.
With (enough) steroids and/or good genetics, anything is possible. But you probably know as well that you've likely left a lot of gains on the table.

On the plus side, you stayed lighter by doing so which is healthier.
 

Cinder

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With (enough) steroids and/or good genetics, anything is possible. But you probably know as well that you've likely left a lot of gains on the table.

On the plus side, you stayed lighter by doing so which is healthier.
I'm 5'8 and biggest was near 250lbs with 22.5 inch arms. 220 now with 21 inch arms. And not lifting right now.
 

jeroendebleser

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I'm 5'8 and biggest was near 250lbs with 22.5 inch arms. 220 now with 21 inch arms. And not lifting right now.
Ok those are some better stats than I expected based on your post. But it wasn't an attack at all, my bad if it came across that way.
 

tkav1980

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I think for us more simple minded people Dante explained it best and I believe, with or without peer reviewed research to back it up, he is correct.
Bulk up and hold it for a long time. Be progressive as possible with weight and food, be ok getting a bit sloppy, not fat but a bit sloppy, and minimize the increase in drug doses to get as much as possible out of each increase.
Create that new set point in muscle mass and as you progress, it will be that much easier to hold onto as you diet down. And easy to regain should you run into life issues that cause you to take an extended break.

Anecdotally, I find daily increases of 300 to 500 calories comfortable for me. Ill increase 300 to 500 calories, hold that for a few weeks to assess the results and adjust as needed. I haven't ever noticed an unacceptable increase in body fat that way. I do however attempt to get the bulk of that increase from protien sources.
 

qbkilla

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I think for us more simple minded people Dante explained it best and I believe, with or without peer reviewed research to back it up, he is correct.
Bulk up and hold it for a long time. Be progressive as possible with weight and food, be ok getting a bit sloppy, not fat but a bit sloppy, and minimize the increase in drug doses to get as much as possible out of each increase.
Create that new set point in muscle mass and as you progress, it will be that much easier to hold onto as you diet down. And easy to regain should you run into life issues that cause you to take an extended break.

Anecdotally, I find daily increases of 300 to 500 calories comfortable for me. Ill increase 300 to 500 calories, hold that for a few weeks to assess the results and adjust as needed. I haven't ever noticed an unacceptable increase in body fat that way. I do however attempt to get the bulk of that increase from protien sources.
I wonder if the inverse is also true? So many guys cut then went to blow back up and add a lb a week then just get relatively fat again. Would there be any benefit to staying ripped for a period of time to then mass back up and not gain so much fat? The calories going more towards building muscle and less fat storage?
 

N.L....M.....

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I wonder if the inverse is also true? So many guys cut then went to blow back up and add a lb a week then just get relatively fat again. Would there be any benefit to staying ripped for a period of time to then mass back up and not gain so much fat? The calories going more towards building muscle and less fat storage?
I think a maintenance period is necessary but gaining a lb a week isn’t what gets anyone fat. What gets people fat is not knowing when to pull back. The quicker the weight gain the faster they’ll add unwanted weight. I always liked the idea of picking a goal weight and getting there and holding it for a few months then cutting back down and repeating. If done correctly each time you hit that same goal weight you should be leaner at that weight and everytime you cut you should weigh a little more by the end of the fatloss phase.When you finally hit the goal weight decently lean then up it by 10-20lbs, rinse and repeat
 

heavyhitter

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I've never been able to eat enough really, nor have I been able to keep to a food surplus diet for more than a few weeks. I still grew a good amount without a lot of food.
Appetite has to be trained just like the muscle. It’s a struggle for me too but after force feeding for years it’s much easier for me to get in the food now.
 

Dugbet

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Forcing yourself to become a great eater can be a painstaking job, but once you do, your appetite will be massive for the rest of your life, even when you wish it weren't, like in the cut period.
 

heavyhitter

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Forcing yourself to become a great eater can be a painstaking job, but once you do, your appetite will be massive for the rest of your life, even when you wish it weren't, like in the cut period.
This has never been the case for me. And maybe I’m an anomaly. But if I stop eating the way I am my appetite goes back to wanting to eat maybe 2 meals daily with a snack here and there within just a matter of weeks
 

emeric delczeg

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To gain MAXIMUM size you will need to be in a calorie surplus.

You can gain SOME muscle in a calorie deficit, depends on a lot of factors, but let's not shit ourselves, you want to be a very big motherfucker you better be able to eat a lot of food.
The key is to know when to push the food and when to take your foot off the accelerator, this will determine how much of your weight gain is lean muscle tissue and how much is fat.
Yes, and they need to train hard, I am almost 69 and train very intense and back in doing negatives, I am on average 3500 to 4000 calories per day just to maintain muscle mass. See my today leg training. I am not using to heavy weight, not trying to brake world records, and not geting injured. I started with leg extension with negative next leg curls, than the squats superset with leg press, and finished with 2 x 50 reps body weight dip squats. Longevity is my plan. Just showing how I train and why I eat so many eggs. https://www.facebook.com/emeric.delczeg/
 

emeric delczeg

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That’s awesome brother. We have that pullover at my gym and I used to love it. Unfortunately with my shoulder issues I can no longer use it. I can’t even do squats on the smith machine because of my shoulder issues
Use hack machine and leg press.
 

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