Dutasteride ( Less side effects than finasteride)

[Black Beard]

For those who had a bad experience with finasteride and even tried microdosing it without success (0.25 mg daily or 0.5 mg Mon/Wed/Fri). Dutasteride can be a very effective option. Many have a bad reaction to the finasteride hormone itself and not the DHT inhibition.


Often times, many men/women find that dutasteride has LESS side effects than finasteride. Finasteride and dutasteride are actually steroid hormones like testosterone, estradiol and progesterone which means they can have "special" effects and side effects independent of their inhibition of DHT. That's why many guys will get side effect relief after skipping finasteride for a few days even though DHT levels are still completely suppressed. (Aromasin AKA exemestane is another steroid hormone that we use to lower testosterone metabolites; estradiol)


Dutasteride can also be microdosed as low as 0.5 mg 2-3 times per week (which is equal to or better than 5 mg finasteride daily at stopping and reversing hair loss). With a DHT inhibition rate of around 60-80% (versus 5 mg fin = 70%) . Common finasteride sides that many find they don't get from dutasteride ; brain fog, mood and libido changes, and fatigue. Dutasteride is more effective at reversing and preventing hair loss than finasteride in most patients.


It goes both ways, some guys do great on finasteride and don't tolerate dutasteride well, but in my experience, dutasteride has at least the same if not a lower side effect risk profile (proven by many studies as well). With either hormone, the risks of permanent sides are virtually zero, so anyone concerned about preserving their hair or reversing hair loss should give both of these medications a a shot at least once in their lifetime. There is very little risk but a lot of reward if you can make it work (BPH prevention is a huge benefit as well).


I find that most can tolerate either finasteride microdosing or dutasteride microdosing. Oftentimes, those who cannot tolerate finasteride will have little to no side effects from dutasteride, as crazy as that sounds.

 

[Nyoco]

For those who had a bad experience with finasteride and even tried microdosing it without success (0.25 mg daily or 0.5 mg Mon/Wed/Fri). Dutasteride can be a very effective option. Many have a bad reaction to the finasteride hormone itself and not the DHT inhibition.


Often times, many men/women find that dutasteride has LESS side effects than finasteride. Finasteride and dutasteride are actually steroid hormones like testosterone, estradiol and progesterone which means they can have "special" effects and side effects independent of their inhibition of DHT. That's why many guys will get side effect relief after skipping finasteride for a few days even though DHT levels are still completely suppressed. (Aromasin AKA exemestane is another steroid hormone that we use to lower testosterone metabolites; estradiol)


Dutasteride can also be microdosed as low as 0.5 mg 2-3 times per week (which is equal to or better than 5 mg finasteride daily at stopping and reversing hair loss). With a DHT inhibition rate of around 60-80% (versus 5 mg fin = 70%) . Common finasteride sides that many find they don't get from dutasteride ; brain fog, mood and libido changes, and fatigue. Dutasteride is more effective at reversing and preventing hair loss than finasteride in most patients.


It goes both ways, some guys do great on finasteride and don't tolerate dutasteride well, but in my experience, dutasteride has at least the same if not a lower side effect risk profile (proven by many studies as well). With either hormone, the risks of permanent sides are virtually zero, so anyone concerned about preserving their hair or reversing hair loss should give both of these medications a a shot at least once in their lifetime. There is very little risk but a lot of reward if you can make it work (BPH prevention is a huge benefit as well).


I find that most can tolerate either finasteride microdosing or dutasteride microdosing. Oftentimes, those who cannot tolerate finasteride will have little to no side effects from dutasteride, as crazy as that sounds.

Sorry to be a party pooper Black Beard, I appreciate your vast knowledge and know you mean well, but as a PFS sufferer (I used Dutasteride) I completely disagree with what I have highlighted in your post, I started using it with that mentality, I understood the perils but the numbers were on my side, since less than 2% experience serious side effects acording to the literature, I started using it thinking sides were minimal to non existant and that I wouldn´t experience them...until I did. The sides can be permanent and life threatening (I almost took my life three times, but my love for my parents was stronger and I couldn´t do that to them) and when you experience them and look for help, you realize there are many people suffering just like you, and let me tell you it´s fucking devastating to be a full of life, horny, fun guy, to the complete opposite. Anhedonia, aspermia, zero morning wood, no libido, weight gain, gyno, severe brain fog, mood swings that altered between severe depression and rage with no good feelings in between...almost seven years later I´m much better but still no morning wood and my libido has yet to return to normal levels, the sad thing is I was on Dut for almost a year and saw no benefit at all on my hair.

As a victim of my own vanity, all I can say is I would rather be bald and how I was before Dutasteride than how I am now, and to anyone reading this and thinking of using Dut or Finas, if you experience sides stop immediately, the danger is very real and the damage can be permanent. If you can afford it, get a hair transplant which is what I ended up doing.

PD: Just an example, info such as this is what messed me up, I read the study and thought the sides, IF they presented themselves, would disappear which is a fucking lie.

Finasteride and sexual side effects - PMC

Finasteride, a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, widely used in the medical management of male pattern hairloss, has been reported to cause sexual side effects. This article critically examines the evidence available and makes recommendations as to how a ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"A long term study showed that drug-related sexual side effects such as decreased libido, ED, and ejaculatory disorders occurred in <2% of men.[10] These side-effects disappeared not only in all men who stopped the drug because of the side effects but also in most of those who continued therapy. The incidence of each side effect mentioned decreased to ≤0.3% by the fifth year of treatment with finasteride. The incidence of side effects were comparable to that of placebo both at one year and at 5 years."

 

[RandomMachine]

Sorry to be a party pooper Black Beard, I appreciate your vast knowledge and know you mean well, but as a PFS sufferer (I used Dutasteride) I completely disagree with what I have highlighted in your post, I started using it with that mentality, I understood the perils but the numbers were on my side, since less than 2% experience serious side effects acording to the literature, I started using it thinking sides were minimal to non existant and that I wouldn´t experience them...until I did. The sides can be permanent and life threatening (I almost took my life three times, but my love for my parents was stronger and I couldn´t do that to them) and when you experience them and look for help, you realize there are many people suffering just like you, and let me tell you it´s fucking devastating to be a full of life, horny, fun guy, to the complete opposite. Anhedonia, aspermia, zero morning wood, no libido, weight gain, gyno, severe brain fog, mood swings that altered between severe depression and rage with no good feelings in between...almost seven years later I´m much better but still no morning wood and my libido has yet to return to normal levels, the sad thing is I was on Dut for almost a year and saw no benefit at all on my hair.

As a victim of my own vanity, all I can say is I would rather be bald and how I was before Dutasteride than how I am now, and to anyone reading this and thinking of using Dut or Finas, if you experience sides stop immediately, the danger is very real and the damage can be permanent. If you can afford it, get a hair transplant which is what I ended up doing.

PD: Just an example, info such as this is what messed me up, I read the study and thought the sides, IF they presented themselves, would disappear which is a fucking lie.

Finasteride and sexual side effects - PMC

Finasteride, a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, widely used in the medical management of male pattern hairloss, has been reported to cause sexual side effects. This article critically examines the evidence available and makes recommendations as to how a ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"A long term study showed that drug-related sexual side effects such as decreased libido, ED, and ejaculatory disorders occurred in <2% of men.[10] These side-effects disappeared not only in all men who stopped the drug because of the side effects but also in most of those who continued therapy. The incidence of each side effect mentioned decreased to ≤0.3% by the fifth year of treatment with finasteride. The incidence of side effects were comparable to that of placebo both at one year and at 5 years."

Sorry to hear that, what I'm about to say isn't meant to discredit your experience.

If the side effects were permanent, what would be the mechanism of action? If it's just inhibiting the conversion of test to DHT through 5-alpha reductase?

Even if it permanently suppressed the conversion wouldn't someone theoretically be able to take DHT and bypass the inhibition?

Alternatively, wouldn't other steroids or inhibitors be subject having their primary effects be permanent?

AI that always block estrogen conversion after you stop using them
Or
Anabolic steroids that you take for a brief period of time that continue building muscle at supraphysiological levels

Just a thought experiment...

Also @Black Beard, what's the scientific consensus on the chances or risks of men conceiving while on either of these drugs? Also any potential risk in unprotected sex with pregnant women while taking the drugs?

I've seen people bring up both as concerns before, but I haven't looked into it much.

 

[Black Beard]

Sorry to hear that, what I'm about to say isn't meant to discredit your experience.

If the side effects were permanent, what would be the mechanism of action? If it's just inhibiting the conversion of test to DHT through 5-alpha reductase?

Even if it permanently suppressed the conversion wouldn't someone theoretically be able to take DHT and bypass the inhibition?

Alternatively, wouldn't other steroids or inhibitors be subject having their primary effects be permanent?

AI that always block estrogen conversion after you stop using them
Or
Anabolic steroids that you take for a brief period of time that continue building muscle at supraphysiological levels

Just a thought experiment...

Also @Black Beard, what's the scientific consensus on the chances or risks of men conceiving while on either of these drugs? Also any potential risk in unprotected sex with pregnant women while taking the drugs?

I've seen people bring up both as concerns before, but I haven't looked into it much.

Both meds lower fertility. Ashton Kutcher used dutasteride for over a decade before trying to conceive but he was able to have a child.

Generally speaking, fertility is decreased while on the meds. It can be carried in sperm, so if you are trying to have kids, its generally advised to take a break.


@Nyoco Its not to discredit your experience, but millions of men and many women take both these meds with little to no side effects. Many people are using way too much fin and dut (1 and 0.5 mg daily respectively).

Over 2 million prescriptions for finasteride (as of 2020, much much higher now).

If a guy runs arimidex 1 mg daily they are often times going to feel quite bad and see many side effects. A lot of times, they wont feel right for quite some time after stopping the medication. There is a sweet spot to ALL medications and hormones.

Many people cannot function on the full 1 mg daily finasteride (or arimidex, etc) but feel fine and have great results on 0.25 mg daily. The dose makes the poison.

Most people using these meds without issues are also using the full daily dosage (unnecessary but it works for them)

 

[Brock456]

I was just watching a video from Justin Harris where he comments on hair loss and Finasteride.

He basically says it’s either going to happen or it’s not and why would any AAS user want to decrease Androgen effects in the body by using Fina.

Just adding that in there. Not discrediting anyone. I also tried Fina briefly with negative sides and will never again.

 

[Black Beard]

I was just watching a video from Justin Harris where he comments on hair loss and Finasteride.

He basically says it’s either going to happen or it’s not and why would any AAS user want to decrease Androgen effects in the body by using Fina.

Just adding that in there. Not discrediting anyone. I also tried Fina briefly with negative sides and will never again.

That's a myth, in many if not most users, finasteride/dutasteride will permanently stop hair loss indefinitely.

The androgen effects bodybuilders are generally looking for is muscle/strength. DHT does not significantly contribute to either.

Using these meds does not automatically mean your dick stops working, you lose all your strength/muscle and confidence.

At the end of the day, you have to make your own decision. Some guys really don't want to lose their hair and they have many good options with low risk of sides.

Many guys are keeping their hair, muscles, strength, libido etc. A lot of guys can still use other AAS while on fin/dut and keep their hair. DHT is the worst offender when it comes to hair loss. The sooner you start, the better your results will be

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Thank you for making this and fighting for us bros who our hair is important. What some don't realize is a transplant, can miniaturize and fall out just like any hair if not taking care of meticulous

Interesting about dutasteride reducing negative effects of finasteride. I would think lower or too low dht is the reason for these effects. Moreover, guys with androgenic alopecia that want a good looking head of hair want lower dht for hair loss and prostate prevention . Its a fine line and I've crossed it many times causing erection quality issues. If erection quality is the goal , can always reduce the dose even more, or not take finasteride/dutasteride, can try ketonconazole 2 %, and,or ru58841. I have mixed reviews with ru58841, as I've spent a lot of money on it over the years. Not sure it did anything. That's another subject though.

 

[Black Beard]

Thank you for making this and fighting for us bros who our hair is important. What some don't realize is a transplant, can miniaturize and fall out just like any hair if not taking care of meticulous

Interesting about dutasteride reducing negative effects of finasteride. I would think lower or too low dht is the reason for these effects. Moreover, guys with androgenic alopecia that want a good looking head of hair want lower dht for hair loss and prostate prevention . Its a fine line and I've crossed it many times causing erection quality issues. If erection quality is the goal , can always reduce the dose even more, or not take finasteride/dutasteride, can try ketonconazole 2 %, and,or ru58841. I have mixed reviews with ru58841, as I've spent a lot of money on it over the years. Not sure it did anything. That's another subject though.

RU is very overrated.

There are definitely side effects being caused by the finasteride molecule itself and not the decrease in DHT in certain individuals.


Its like how many guys feel fine on tren and others goes literally insane on it (especially at higher doses). I find the same with finasteride.

Many many guys handle 1 mg daily with no issues. Some guys are fine on 0.5 mg and others can only handle 0.25 mg daily or MWF.The crazy part is that your DHT level will be almost the same using 1 mg daily vs 0.25 mg daily, but the latter dosage has exponentially lower risk of side effects (cause finasteride molecule itself must be responsible)


Many guys who feel awful on finasteride feel perfectly fine on dutasteride with zero side effects even though dutasteride is lowering DHT much more. It's weird but amazing that it happens.


Also, some guys get temporary sides that go away by 6 month mark (on dutasteride proven in studies). The longer the patients were on it, the less side effects as the body adjusts.

 

[Black Beard]

Start thinking of finasteride and dutasteride as therapeutic ancillaries the same way we do with arimidex/aromasin/letrozole.


We use therapeutic doses of arimidex and AIs to prevent gynecomastia and high estrogen side effects. 0.5-1 mg per WEEK. Not 1 mg daily.


We can use finasteride/dutasteride in the same way; to prevent head hair loss and prostate hypertrophy. 0.25 mg MWF or daily finasteride and 0.5 mg MWF or biweekly dutasteride. (Not 1 mg or 0.5 mg daily, respectively)

 

[blackjack]

All my sides went away with finasteride once I went to MWF. Poison is in the dose.

 

[Vitobrata1]

I didn't see anyone mention that finistride can also be used topically. I mix it with monoxidil and caffine and just take 1/2 mg finistride orally.

 

[Scorpyd]

I'm also on the .25 MWF bandwagon. No side issues to report fortunately.
Its a bit tricky shaving the Fin 5 mg into super tiny pieces using a sharp blade. I think I'm getting a bit more than .25 mg MWF .
Some may say buy 1 mg tabs but I have a surplus Indian Pharma 5 mg laying around looking lonely.

 

[Pheedno]

I take .5mg dutasteride 1-2x a week. From hair all over the counter to a single hair here and there. Haven't had side effects that I can tell

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

It is tricky calculating a 0.25 dose from 5 mgs finasteride.

@blackjack what dose finasteride are you at?

Ive found after a test shot, say four hours, that taking finasteride , or dutasteride makes sense. Ive even done more the day of the less the next day, then taking a day or two off, untill the next shot. Will keep experimenting .

Ive used finasteride topically. The dose has to be exact, cant just put a handful of five 5 mgs tablets in solution, I've done that. Theres a video on how to do it. It seemed to work okay, maybe.

I seem to be a guy that finasteride effects are in the high range, or sensitive to it, currently.

 

[carbs]

Anyone lost their boners from Durasteride???

I cant take finasteride cause of this... it kills my wood

 

[juggy38]

Will these drugs work if your like slick bald @Black Beard

Also is the micro needling that helpful?

 

[Scorpyd]

PM sent

 

[Black Beard]

Anyone lost their boners from Durasteride???

I cant take finasteride cause of this... it kills my wood

What dose of finasteride were you using? It's like taking 2.5 mg letro daily versus 1.25-2.5 mg PER WEEK. 0.1 mg finasteride can already cut DHT down significantly.

1 mg daily does not decrease DHT a lot more than 0.25 mg daily but does significantly increase the risk of sides. Some guys actually get less to no sides from dutasteride when they couldnt use finasteride.

Also, some guys have an adjustment period where they will have some sides that go away. 2-4 weeks usually.

Will these drugs work if your like slick bald @Black Beard

Also is the micro needling that helpful?

Slick bald has a much much lower success rate but not impossible. You would need finasteride or dutasteride+ oral minoxidil, but i have seen cases where slick bald have regained a significant amount of hair, enough for it to be worth it. Strong responders to oral minoxidil can have miraculous results.

 

[Hyperemia]

Dutasteride can also be microdosed as low as 0.5 mg 2-3 times per week (which is equal to or better than 5 mg finasteride daily at stopping and reversing hair loss). With a DHT inhibition rate of around 60-80% (versus 5 mg fin = 70%) . Common finasteride sides that many find they don't get from dutasteride ; brain fog, mood and libido changes, and fatigue. Dutasteride is more effective at reversing and preventing hair loss than finasteride in most patients.

Is there an optimal time to start Dutasteride after finish a Tren E Cycle? I've read that using them together can accelerate hair loss.

 

[Black Beard]

Is there an optimal time to start Dutasteride after finish a Tren E Cycle? I've read that using them together can accelerate hair loss.

There's zero evidence or reasoning to think this and even the NPP thing is likely false ( DHN is actually less androgenic than nandrolone, at least the data ive actually looked at)


What we do know is that tren + DHT is more androgenic and toxic to hair than tren + testosterone with fin/dut.


DHT is especially toxic to hair because it binds to the AR receptor for a very long time compared to other androgens.


Dut or fin is something that should be taken year round for best results.

You could technically cycle it with AAS blasts that way you would use an AI temporarily, that's for someone who is only susceptible to hair loss from higher than TRT doses, but most men lose hair even at physiological T levels, just at a slower rate.