Exercise Science is Killing Your Gains

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

What's up Guys.

Stumbled upon this Video from Alex Bromley.

I never really paid any attention to exercise science, it just never has been of relevance in my grappling sports, or my weight lifting. I just laugh when I occasionally see another Fad Study go through the Fitness Influencer Social Media, like the 52 reps for Quads, or lengthened Partials, etc.

But Imho Alex really does a great job of pointing out the fallacies and how Ex Phys just is not a good to give individuals an answer, it only really is good telling what works(or not) on average. Give it a watch if you are bored on this New Years Eve, his editing and production is top notch, just as the information.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Not watched the video but yeah he's not wrong.

Hypertrophy science over the last 10 years has mislead a LOT of people, while simultaneously making the general population very sceptical about real sources of good information like actual bodybuilders and bodybuilding coaches.

Probably a little unfair to put Lyle on the cover there as he keeps his feet on the ground, but the rest are a mess. An absolute mess.

 

[tweezor]

Not watched the video but yeah he's not wrong.

Hypertrophy science over the last 10 years has mislead a LOT of people, while simultaneously making the general population very sceptical about real sources of good information like actual bodybuilders and bodybuilding coaches.

Probably a little unfair to put Lyle on the cover there as he keeps his feet on the ground, but the rest are a mess. An absolute mess.

Remember many of these coaches and bodybuilders make a living of this. time and time again - and I done this myself - i see people overthink everything and forget to lift because of something they read or been told from youtubers, bodybuilders, coaches etc.. "oh gotta hit this angle like this" etc all that bullshit and end up doing fuck all

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Paralysis by analysis

I’ve been a victim and speak to many who are/have been in the same boat

I miss when I first got into training some years ago where I would just copy workouts of my favourite pros out of flex magazines

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Remember many of these coaches and bodybuilders make a living of this. time and time again - and I done this myself - i see people overthink everything and forget to lift because of something they read or been told from youtubers, bodybuilders, coaches etc.. "oh gotta hit this angle like this" etc all that bullshit and end up doing fuck all

We are in the age of the hypertrophy research superstar.


Where it's in the researchers direct interest to be considered an authority in the area.


No conflicts of interest indeed...



The current crop of hypertrophy researchers are no different no Cybergenix - at last Santoriello was yoked.

 

[headtrainer]

There’s nothing new under the sun when it comes to building muscle.

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

I'm an engineer by background - we goto school, we learn the theories. We know how things should "work" according to principles & mathematical models - we also know that these models don't always apply strictly in the real world and you need to trust your eyes over your books. I see physical exercise the same way - the theories give us starting points but if you grow better off 6 sets than you do 12 sets - would you really continue to do 12 just cause that's what's a study says?

some of the "evidence based" guys are so blinded by a study, often that they are not suitably competent to understand, that they miss the wood for the trees and don't apply real-time experience. I think Dr Mike and Dr Scott Stephenson do a good job of bridging the gap between studies and real life experience (and they actually acknowledge most of the "hypothesis" tested/proved in studies do infact start as "bro science" - or as I call it learnt experience).

That being said in school you either liked Sports/PE/Gym OR you liked science class - Im not sure we should be trying to mix the two!

 

[slayer37]

One thing I've noticed is that all of these evidence-based hypertrophy gurus are small & undeveloped. It's odd & creepy how they have a cult- like following. The cult members also all have unimpressive physiques. The worst are the Paul Carters of the world. Buddy, nobody has ever achieved any real success using your stupid ass methods. But a lot of people treat his word as gospel. Really weird.

 

[Golden]

For all the additional knowledge we have supposedly advanced in, it doesn’t correlate in the amount of developed bodies I see nowadays

I train in a bodybuilder orientated gym, I see plenty of people in trained by JP clothing, with a tripod set up to record their exercise execution and a notepad and pen to track everything, often with an exercise that’s been around for decades but with some sort of modern twist as if to reinvent the wheel. Also with some exotic body part split.

But these are always, without fail, much less developed than the lads who come in and train how people have forever. Usually what the kids call a ‘bro’ split and a handful of exercises and just train hard. No standing around timing rest periods, just go when your partner has finished and work hard.

Well aware I sound like a miserable old git

 

[Golden]

One thing I've noticed is that all of these evidence-based hypertrophy gurus are small & undeveloped. It's odd & creepy how they have a cult- like following. The cult members also all have unimpressive physiques. The worst are the Paul Carters of the world. Buddy, nobody has ever achieved any real success using your stupid ass methods. But a lot of people treat his word as gospel. Really weird.

U mean having 3 minute rest periods in between sets of 6 reps of side laterals. Even worse when he suggests 3 mins between each arm if doing stuff alternating in terms of being optimal

Take forever to get 4 sets with each arm done

 

[qbkilla]

For all the additional knowledge we have supposedly advanced in, it doesn’t correlate in the amount of developed bodies I see nowadays

I train in a bodybuilder orientated gym, I see plenty of people in trained by JP clothing, with a tripod set up to record their exercise execution and a notepad and pen to track everything, often with an exercise that’s been around for decades but with some sort of modern twist as if to reinvent the wheel. Also with some exotic body part split.

But these are always, without fail, much less developed than the lads who come in and train how people have forever. Usually what the kids call a ‘bro’ split and a handful of exercises and just train hard. No standing around timing rest periods, just go when your partner has finished and work hard.

Well aware I sound like a miserable old git

Spot on, im guilty of this, trying to make everything perfect. Some of my thoughts..

1. The studies say fasted cardio isn't superior to fed cardio but seems like people who have actually achieved a low bf using it disagree. And none of these studies are likely done on anyone under 8 percent

2. Progressive overload being so important...yes it is...but what about all the people that use light weight high volume or instinctive training, never log weights, travel so can't add 5lbs a week to their dip machine each workout because their at a new gym... people can grow by just training fucking hard and eating/sleeping right

3. Look at all the people that have built muscle using old school calesthenics or doing prison shit...seems like the ones that look good do the high rep stuff. Example do a fuck ton of chins and dips vs add weight to those movements. I've been looking into calesthenics and it's the same debate in bodybuilding..."add weight every week vs just train hard a ton of reps"...seems like most people report they gained better by doin a fuck ton vs adding weight.

4. The final one looks like it's been debunking recently...but yes eating a fuck ton of protein works none of this "you can't absorb more than x amount"...seems like the new study clarified that more is better.

 

[buck]

It seems that a lot of people try to read what the want into data to support what they want things to be. Looking at data from numerous decent sources and going with the direction that those studies point to seems reasonable to me. But if i find it doesn't do much i can always change it.

 

[juggy38]

Not watched the video but yeah he's not wrong.

Hypertrophy science over the last 10 years has mislead a LOT of people, while simultaneously making the general population very sceptical about real sources of good information like actual bodybuilders and bodybuilding coaches.

Probably a little unfair to put Lyle on the cover there as he keeps his feet on the ground, but the rest are a mess. An absolute mess.

Eric helms has a pro card….

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

1. The studies say fasted cardio isn't superior to fed cardio but seems like people who have actually achieved a low bf using it disagree. And none of these studies are likely done on anyone under 8 percent

I can fully accept that the studies found no difference in gen-pop trainees. But in enhanced trainers using AAS, GH & Slin that change metabolisms work fasted cardio is definitely a advantageous to non-fasted assuming output is matched!

 

[1fst400]

What's up Guys.

Stumbled upon this Video from Alex Bromley.

I never really paid any attention to exercise science, it just never has been of relevance in my grappling sports, or my weight lifting. I just laugh when I occasionally see another Fad Study go through the Fitness Influencer Social Media, like the 52 reps for Quads, or lengthened Partials, etc.

But Imho Alex really does a great job of pointing out the fallacies and how Ex Phys just is not a good to give individuals an answer, it only really is good telling what works(or not) on average. Give it a watch if you are bored on this New Years Eve, his editing and production is top notch, just as the information.

Great video! It wasn’t pro or con exercise science. But really helps to look at the limitations at play. Also made me think about how often somebody posts a pubmed article as a silver bullet to their argument without really understanding the study design and limits.

 

[Mufasa123]

A lot of these studies are on totally untrained populations and many are so poorly designed it really questions whether or not the researchers themselves understand how people utilize the concepts they are designing tests for to prove/disprove. That planned deload POS recently discussed here is one such example.

I've spent a lot of time on research and read a mega shit ton of studies in my own field. Some of it is garbage and should have never been published. That said exercise science is a whole 'nother dimension of crazed dumb assery. I feel bad sometimes but not my problem. Would cause people less issues if it was simply ignored. This comes from a science and research guy too. Sad.

 

[juggy38]

A lot of these studies are on totally untrained populations and many are so poorly designed it really questions whether or not the researchers themselves understand how people utilize the concepts they are designing tests for to prove/disprove. That planned deload POS recently discussed here is one such example.

I've spent a lot of time on research and read a mega shit ton of studies in my own field. Some of it is garbage and should have never been published. That said exercise science is a whole 'nother dimension of crazed dumb assery. I feel bad sometimes but not my problem. Would cause people less issues if it was simply ignored. This comes from a science and research guy too. Sad.

Ehh, I think they do exactly what they say they do.

Like the recent high volume study. I think it was good. The takeaways are what is not. And let’s be honest….our choice of hobby, most of them are dumb. Like….reslly fucking dumb. And the ones who believe they have a brain….well, they can’t read literature.


And the high level guys….its even worse. We have had threads on here talking about exogenous insulin increasing insulin sensitivity, guys that have NAFLD and look pregnant asking if GH increases blood sugar….how to get the best rear delt gains…


The studies support or do not support what the fuck the study tested. As stated above….^

If you take natural guys, who can squat 300ish….and bombard them with a squat specific leg only routine…..there is a trend for higher volumes to gain more leg size.

Thats literally all we can draw from that. Natural guys can survive 8-12 weeks of an insane leg cycle. Fucking duh. It’s been done. SMOLOV anyone? Yea. You make absurd gains or you tap out due to injury.It’s not false or wrong, it is what it is.

Most here probably train with what? Maybe 80-120 sets a week? I bet most
Could survive 35-50 sets of legs if you trained legs, went home and ate and slept. Literally then next physically intensive thing you did was train legs, you’d be ok. Legs, sleep. Legs, sleep, legs, sleep, repeat.

I don’t blame the masses. I blame
The people selling their service or product. “Oh my new science based leg routine is based on the new literature!!”

And I agree. Journals and studies….its just
Scientists ways of making money. Idk how much money I’ve spent because I need access to a very specific journal behind a paywall.


Goldilocks zone……some
Guys on here run 1.5g test as their base, and 700mg EQ is a useless dose and you should double it……well no shit….training doesn’t matter.

Then we have guys asking if 14 sets is enough a week for shoulders or 18? and if it should be split
Up between anterior, lateral and posterior delt evenly, or not even?

Somewhere in the middle of those
Is common sense….and it seems
To be more rare than unicorns.

 

[juggy38]

@Mufasa123 I’m not in disagreement with your post, I’m just ranting on this back and forth (not here, just in general)

 

[BLKGUY2006]

For all the additional knowledge we have supposedly advanced in, it doesn’t correlate in the amount of developed bodies I see nowadays

I train in a bodybuilder orientated gym, I see plenty of people in trained by JP clothing, with a tripod set up to record their exercise execution and a notepad and pen to track everything, often with an exercise that’s been around for decades but with some sort of modern twist as if to reinvent the wheel. Also with some exotic body part split.

But these are always, without fail, much less developed than the lads who come in and train how people have forever. Usually what the kids call a ‘bro’ split and a handful of exercises and just train hard. No standing around timing rest periods, just go when your partner has finished and work hard.

Well aware I sound like a miserable old git

Yes, these tripod people never seem improve their physique and never break a sweat.

 

[KillerStack]

I have an issue with how the exercise is done in the lab. Look at how Schoenfeld lifts. Can this guy make study participants lift to "failure" for example? I doubt it. Sometimes they describe impossible routines. Then you have the issue with how the execution is standardised between study participants. I have my doubts that it's very good. So science itself is not at fault, it's the application.

The anti-science guys can be insufferable too.

Last progress made in bodybuilding science was the introduction of recombinant growth hormone and the application of insulin, literally nothing else. Think about it.

I developed this genius take after decades of following the debates Lol. And I continue to follow it still.