Experienced users of metformin and or berberine

[dragonfire101]

With regular metformin.

With her being reactive and going hypo on MET definitely differs than someone without reactive hypoglycemia. I should have made mention of that in my earlier post. Nevertheless, it can happen to a certain subset of individuals, such as my wife.

I love her to death, yet it upsets me when she doesn't listen to my advice on certain food choices. Especially around the holidays.

I have gone a lil hypo on the short-fast acting the regular one I guess ,then they have the ER. I usually take the ER when not doing low carbs and the regular one on lower carbs and just take it when I eat a carb meal, but have gone lil hypo when not eating enough carbs at that meal and not having any prior for 24hours.

 

[NY Muscle]

I never have any hypo issues and I take it during ketogenic dieting. No carbs.

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[kinglewy]

What were your results like mate and how much insulin were you using? Did you ever experience severe hypo's?

Results were great on that run...i started with extremely low bodfyat, 10-15 iu novolinR 1 hr pre-workout with gatorade and pepto pro for intra. That was my first try with R instead of log so I did tend to get hypo after the workout untill I got the timing down of the peaks. The only thing I didnt like was the stomach distension (even with no gh), I looked pregnant although you could still see all 6 abs very defined...I had to suck in my stomch in the gym it was so bad. Still not sure how to combat that one, only happens when i run slin.

Like most of my slin runs there came a time when fat gain was overriding muscle gain so I stopped...the hunger on slin is sometimes too much...you feel hypo coming and want to smash everything in the fridge lol.You said in an earlier post that you keep coming back to slin because you think if you got the diet exactly right you could gain with no fat....i'm the same way, every time I get very lean that little voice says if I could just nail the diet exactly I could blow up lean, and I do for a short time but not for too long.

 

[LEX]

Ok guys been thinking about this...

IF you take regular Met eat a carb meal then go hypo after this maybe an explanation:

-so normally you would eat carbs sugar hits bloodstream you release insulin
-your body is looking to normalize glucose levels it will either add insulin or liver will make glucose to dial in...
-What is one of the things MET does that we know for sure?
Slows liver from making glucose.

So if you take Met with a carb meal and you get hypo after that seems a reasonable explanation also explains why you can take Met on empty stomach and not go hypo....

 

[jrock00123]

I never have any hypo issues and I take it during ketogenic dieting. No carbs.

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I assume you mean met? Interesting. What is your reasoning in a completely carbless state?

 

[Stewie]

what do you suppose the mechanism is of the Met doing that Stewie?
this was just with high carb meals? but could she go hypo with Met in a situation without a high carb meal?

Could it be that the met has lowered her insulin sensitivity and after a non typical high carb meal she secreted an "normal" amount of insulin that turns out to be a little too much causing the hypo?

I just thought we really knew 3 things
-blocks some digestion of carbs if taken with meals
-liver making glucose
-increasing insulin sensitivity (in both Hypothal and all other tissues)

Incidentally, I don't know?

I have some opinions of why she randomly has had postprandial hypoglycemia (PPHG) episodes On MET therapy.

There's literally over a dozen reasons one can fall into PPHG. Generally, the primary cause is from an insulin dump post carbohydrate meal. With my wife, I'd say hers is a combination of an insulin dump post carbohydrate intake in conjunction with impaired glucagon response. They kind of go hand-in-hand.

It doesn't happen very often so I have to believe this may be from a stress reponse related to her day from; cortisol, norepinephrine, epinephrine, ect? When she's taken ephedrine in the past she's gone hypo. So there may be some interplay with her catecholamines triggering this?

As for metformin, which has increased her insulin sensitivity, could be a possible secondary cause for her to experience PPHG. Or so her physician and I agree upon.

She's rather bullheaded and opted out on further testing.

 

[Allday]

My wife has reactive hypoglycemia. She's gone hypo on MET a few times. This was after fairly decent carb meal with 500 mg of MET. I mentioned this a few years ago in a thread about reactive hypoglycemia.

I know a lot of people within the BB communities don't believe it can happen, yet I've witnessed a few times with my wife.

Pretty crazy. I use Met from time to time (the regular kind, not the XR) and have never really felt any signs of hypo. I've taken it with the intent of having a meal and then something coming up and pushing the meal back a half hour/hour or so and still was good.

Wonder if your wife's experience is more the norm or mine, cuz I find it interesting.

 

[GreenTLB6]

I have been using metformin the last 2.5 months. Have never went hypo using it. That's with both higher carb days and lower/zero carbs days. Nothing...but everyone responds differently.

 

[NY Muscle]

I assume you mean met? Interesting. What is your reasoning in a completely carbless state?

I do it to speed entry into ketosis especially if I'm getting close to going over my daily carb limit.

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[jrock00123]

I do it to speed entry into ketosis especially if I'm getting close to going over my daily carb limit.

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I use ALA and berberine before bed for a similar reason. I won't reach full ketosis, but I believe it helps me move into a predominately fat burning state more quickly to fully take advantage of the nightly fast.

 

[chainheart]

I can only do 500mg of met any more upsets my stomach, so take my experience with a grain of salt.

/QUOTE]

I mentioned earlier in this post eating oatmeal or a banana in the morning and then one or the other again later towards dinner stopped the GI upset. See if that works for you.

Not meant to diagnose or treat health issues.

 

[chainheart]

I can only do 500mg of met any more upsets my stomach, so take my experience with a grain of salt.

I mentioned earlier in this post eating oatmeal or a banana in the morning and then one or the other again later towards dinner stopped the GI upset from metformin. See if that works for you.

Not meant to diagnose or treat health issues.

 

[powerof2]

That avi is of a 50 year old shriveled up old man



I'm not a bodybuilder, therefore I have no need to use slin.

Sure some noncompetitive athletes use slin for aesthetic purposes, yet I find no need to.



My area of interest on topics such as this varys greatly. Not that it means a lot, I'm working towards being a P.A. I have a little understanding on bio, physio, chem, etc. Not much tho.



And yes it did go off topic.

Make sense, I spend a lot of time at work researching. 99% of the time when u post I'm like wow! Thanks


110% or expect to regret it!

 

[powerof2]

Awesome thread! Glad I ran into it. Answered a lot of ? [emoji106]just started berberine after reading up on it last week. Sounds like a solid short term solution for what I dealing with. Think I'll stick with Stevie's idea and take it when slin is clear and rest days. Monitoring bg levels. I can see where u guys are coming from with wanting to run at the same time as slin as well. The way I see it is slin is cheep. I can run it a little higher and work on recovering sensitivity outside its window. Sticking with Adex until berberine run is over. Thanks brothers !


110% or expect to regret it!

 

[Cerberus777]

I mentioned earlier in this post eating oatmeal or a banana in the morning and then one or the other again later towards dinner stopped the GI upset from metformin. See if that works for you.

Not meant to diagnose or treat health issues.

Thanks, I'll give the banana a try, oatmeal messes me up as well.

 

[Genmutant]

A question than guys, i know a few of you have said you use or have used MD GDA or johns new prime nutrition GDA, when he was giving out his Injectable L-carnitine protocol he said he takes 2 of his GDA pre workout with his 10 ius of humalog.

Is that something that is worth doing while running pre workout slin(without L-carnitine). Or would i be fucking with the nutrient shuttling of slin by taking the GDA with it?

[lang=de]Very interessting. Where can i get these GDA. TN GDA ihad found.


So, what do you think, met + berberine take together. Good idea? I found that:

"There was a study I read a while back that Metformin and Berberine taken together make each work better (i.e. 1+1 = 4)."

"Actually, it's quite the opposite. Berberine taken in conjunction with Metformin is dangerous. It decrease hepatic uptake and renal elimination of metformin, which is consistent with decreased Vd and CL and, therefore, increase the plasma concentration of metformin. Increasing the plasma concentration of metformin by inhibiting OCTs may increase the incidence of lactic acidosis, a severe adverse effect of metformin (Wang et al. 2003). Reduced hepatic uptake of metformin by the functional impairment of OCT1 was associated with higher
plasma glucose effect and decreased metformin action.

Organic cation transporter-mediated drug-drug interaction potential between berberine and metformin. - PubMed - NCBI

I've attached the full study if anyone is interested.Organic cation transporter-mediated drug–drug interaction potential between berberine and .pdf"[/lang]

 

[NY Muscle]

[lang=de]Very interessting. Where can i get these GDA. TN GDA ihad found.


So, what do you think, met + berberine take together. Good idea? I found that:

"There was a study I read a while back that Metformin and Berberine taken together make each work better (i.e. 1+1 = 4)."

"Actually, it's quite the opposite. Berberine taken in conjunction with Metformin is dangerous. It decrease hepatic uptake and renal elimination of metformin, which is consistent with decreased Vd and CL and, therefore, increase the plasma concentration of metformin. Increasing the plasma concentration of metformin by inhibiting OCTs may increase the incidence of lactic acidosis, a severe adverse effect of metformin (Wang et al. 2003). Reduced hepatic uptake of metformin by the functional impairment of OCT1 was associated with higher
plasma glucose effect and decreased metformin action.

Organic cation transporter-mediated drug-drug interaction potential between berberine and metformin. - PubMed - NCBI

I've attached the full study if anyone is interested.Organic cation transporter-mediated drug–drug interaction potential between berberine and .pdf"[/lang]

Damn for real? I take metformin and berberine. I'll have to rethink the combo.

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[Stewie]

Damn for real? I take metformin and berberine. I'll have to rethink the combo.

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There's animal models that showed berberine can induce changes of the electrophysiology of the heart. It was demonstrated that berberine caused inhibition of channel folding, therefore manifested into many different etiologies. Such as polymorphic ventricular tachycardia, slow repolarization, prolong QT interval, caused long QT syndrome and sudden cardiac death.

Can this happen in humans? I dunno. Nonetheless, it's noteworthy.

 

[NY Muscle]

There's animal models that showed berberine can induce changes of the electrophysiology of the heart. It was demonstrated that berberine caused inhibition of channel folding, therefore manifested into many different etiologies. Such as polymorphic ventricular tachycardia, slow repolarization, prolong QT interval, caused long QT syndrome and sudden cardiac death.

Can this happen in humans? I dunno. Nonetheless, it's noteworthy.

I'll stick with one or the other, but for now just Metformin

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[warlock]

Damn for real? I take metformin and berberine. I'll have to rethink the combo.

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Me too.