Extra insulin?

[RicPhoenix]

Why would people use extra insulin when all they have to do is give themselves an insulin spike with a high GI (carb) drink ?

I am thinking that if my body releases enough insulin to deal with the carbs in the drink and any other carbs and nutrients present why would I use extra insulin ? Would my normal insulin be more efficient ie optimal gains from less usage ? Or is insulin something only used with gh etc?

 

[saint808]

you also have to think about resistance... so you may be different than most. I imagine the benefits would be best served with something like a vitargio drink of some sort. When i was on my death wish i tried humalog and gained 7 lbs in 4 days with minimal bodyfat. It was crazy. the biology of it makes sense on a siomple level but we are complex creatures and no 2 people are alike in every regard.

 

[saint808]

you also need to take in other factors as well. anything you put in your body can change insulin resistance. not very scientific i know but just obvious stuff.

 

[RicPhoenix]

Ok so if a person uses extra insulin...would it be only making them more resistant possibly ? The reason I ask is because I was under the impression that insulin by itself...was not anabolic...therefore taking extra to do the same job that you could do naturally using a carb drink would be overkill ? Does that sound reasonable ?

 

[IronMike]

...

Ok so if a person uses extra insulin...would it be only making them more resistant possibly ? The reason I ask is because I was under the impression that insulin by itself...was not anabolic...therefore taking extra to do the same job that you could do naturally using a carb drink would be overkill ? Does that sound reasonable ?

Ric (how are ya mate?) I was under the impression insulin WAS anabolic in a high order.

I can't really argue scientifically as to why exogenous slin would work better than endo - but do you have any figures on how much slin is produced when consuming a high degree of simple carbs post-workout? You might have a study or something within finger's reach? That could be one factor - that an insulin spike caused by carbs post-workout might only be equivalent to 2-3iu of exogenous and may be secreted over, say, an hour....? I'm making this up as I go, but that's the only thing my layman's brain can think of to explain it.

I haven't used it in a long while, but like saint808 it really agreed with me and I made some good gains off it. I've had similar amounts - and more - of carbs post-workout without it and there just isn't the same effect (maybe mental?).

Thoughts? IronMike

 

[big_byrd52]

Why administer exo test when ur body makes its own? u have a better chance of becoming a diabetic for eating 100g of sugar a pop, than taking slin. a person becomes a type 2 diabetic by basically buring out their pancreas by eating like shit over the years. sure u have good intentions, but the fact is that ur pancreas is working overtime to secrete the insulin needed. u will be better off taking a shot of slin to relieve ur pancrease of all that work. does that make sence? im in a hurry, but my dad is a type 2 and i have had extensive conversations with his endocrinologist.

 

[KillerStack]

I was under the impression insulin WAS anabolic in a high order.

I can't really argue scientifically as to why exogenous slin would work better than endo - but do you have any figures on how much slin is produced when consuming a high degree of simple carbs post-workout? You might have a study or something within finger's reach? That could be one factor - that an insulin spike caused by carbs post-workout might only be equivalent to 2-3iu of exogenous and may be secreted over, say, an hour....? I'm making this up as I go, but that's the only thing my layman's brain can think of to explain it.

From what I've read insulin isn't anabolic, it can be anti-catabolic though. Only low levels of insulin are required to maximally stimulate protein synthesis.
There are studies with insulin infusions and it isn't anabolic except in extreme dosages (way,way more than any bb might take. Can't recall the exact dosage they used).

A 10 iu shot is equal to what is secreted eating a candy bar in one study. I can find the study if you want. I know it doesn't sound right.

The "experts" don't know why exogenous insulin works as reported by bb'ers. I mean a typical 10 iu shot is very much still in the physiological range.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Humalog. Spike is higher than a regular high carb spike and it lasts in your system slightly longer (3-4 subq, 2hrs IM).

Humalin R. Spike is also higher (not as strong as log) and it peaks twice and is also in your system MUCH longer (6-8hrs sub-q, 5-6 IM).

 

[KillerStack]

Humalog. Spike is higher than a regular high carb spike and it lasts in your system slightly longer (3-4 subq, 2hrs IM).

Humalin R. Spike is also higher (not as strong as log) and it peaks twice and is also in your system MUCH longer (6-8hrs sub-q, 5-6 IM).

Those insulin preparations are designed to mimic as closely as possible what the body would secrete naturally in response to glycemic load. It's easy to eat enough carbs to get much higher levels than a typical 10 iu shot for example.

 

[RicPhoenix]

Hi IronMike,

I am well thanks and you?

I do not have the answers for the questions I asked. The other posts are great because they are the same types of questions and comments that I have. I suppose what I am getting at is...why does the use of extra insulin work? Does the use of extra insullin work any better than just eating/drinking some sugary supplement or food after training?

To me it would seem that if insulin is not anabolic on its own there would be no real reason to use it because you can stimulate your own insulin response by drinking sugary sports drinks after training which would drive ALL nutrients into the cells and start a tissue repair response. It would seem that added insulin would do the same but with the added risk of insulin resistance?

I wonder if anyone has actually ever compared using slin on a cycle vs using a carb drink on a cycle?

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I wonder if anyone has actually ever compared using slin on a cycle vs using a carb drink on a cycle?

I have. Best results iv gotten were using Humalin R 15min PRE-workout with a small shake as BBJ suggested then starting my PW shake 30min into the workout then 12 egg whites and 40g brown rice 2.5hrs post shot. Strength way up, bodyweight up, felt great. Never had a problem with hypo either. Best part was my body was burning up all that glycogen while i was workin out, so i was getting insane pumps and didnt gain any bodyfat.

 

[jerrywear]

I have. Best results iv gotten were using Humalin R 15min PRE-workout with a small shake as BBJ suggested then starting my PW shake 30min into the workout then 12 egg whites and 40g brown rice 2.5hrs post shot. Strength way up, bodyweight up, felt great. Never had a problem with hypo either. Best part was my body was burning up all that glycogen while i was workin out, so i was getting insane pumps and didnt gain any bodyfat.

when i was useing it,i was doing 15 min pre workout and right away after workout.5 and 5.

 

[RicPhoenix]

Thanks you guys ...your ideas and experiences are very helpful.

Why do you use insulin pre workout?

 

[IronMike]

...

So slin is not anabolic, but anti-catabolic? Which I guess achieves the same ends really.

What is the time for slin levels to reach peak when ingesting a high carb meal etc versus a shot?

I don't have any answers either Ric, but am curious to know the answers to the queries on this thread. From my experience, I definitely achieved much better results using it exo than relying on a sugar hit during or post-workout, but maybe there's something missing in the way I was using the carbs (timing?).

Also, if pancreatic shutdown is an issue with eating high carb meals, as bigbyrd mentions (and it probably is), then isn't slin resistance an issue with exo slin?

Since so many of us use it (I will again), and we don't seem to have the same depth of understanding about it as we do almost every other concoction under the sun, I'm very keen to hear the scientists (Ric amongst them) debate this.

Are diabetic-like symptoms an issue with long-term slin use (eg eyesight, circulation)? I'd presume so, though I have no evidence at all for this. IronMike

 

[Coopie]

Here's my .02 cents on Slin...

While not an androgen, Slin is highly anabolic. It forces nutrients, inlcuding protein, into muscle cells - more so than the cells could handle without the presence of Slin in the system. This alone makes the use of Slin advantageous since post-work-out we have a window of time during which we must feed the muscle in order to grow bigger/stronger.

Androgens increase the body's ability to systhesize protein, and with Slin we now have an extra-effective way to get those amino acids to where they are needed - muscle. Also, after intense training we most likely have burnt through our glucose stores - the muscle's energy source. The use of Slin with sugars/carbs restores the glycogen balance almost immediately thereby allowing cellular repair to begin much sooner than would happen without the Slin.

So, in my opinion, Slin is anabolic in a major way...

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

Thanks everyone i even learned a few thinsg off this thread...

 

[gooey]

also dependent on...

who the person is and what level resistance their cells are giving off. Exercise creates muscular work and in turn a need for more food for energy. Why take slin b4 working out? Doesnt working out already pull or lower blood sugar levels. Unless one has a drink with some sugar and protien in it, I guess I dont understand why? It also depends on the persons ability to get fat or not. Some like me get get fat very easy and taking that regardless of a lower fat intake makes me MORE chubby (if possible) others who eat whatever they want never do cardio and still gain more muscle that would be perfect for them. Id have to agree that insulin is anabolic, it has been stated as the most anabolic hormone. It make not be muscle only specific but it is highly anabolic. Id like to see more info on this!
gooey

 

[Massive G]

Here's my take based on experience.
Not advice but just a bit of thought.
I see no reason for the use of exogenous insulin after trying it briefly in every available form way back for a brief time when trying to get large as possible.

Now I get the exact same effect when spiking or priming my hormone levels with a pre and post work out shake. I go very mild hypo, heart rate, and metabolism increases, as well as a little sweating from the surge of the hormones post work out and it all happens with the priming of this drink after training-the body is ready for it and in a critical mode to suck up everything.
That's why these things MUST be in simple form, liquid and amino, sugars etc. (You don't need complex foods and digestion to take away your blood and energy towards recoup)
Doing heavy training sessions stimulates and pulses GH, Test, IGF-1, T3, in small amounts naturally and slin is primed with a drink of whey/BCAA/malto and dextrose. The muscle cells sop up these aminos and sugars like a dried sponge dropped in the ocean.

To me adding in exogenous insulin in only adds the risk for fat gain as even Log can last a few hours past that PWO window and lay down some fat.

**broken link removed**

I have seen more guys get fat and the thick skin or film we see on some large pros today IMO is from heavy slin use. Many take slin during the day and that really is a way to get fat. The flip side is if you try and prime slin release from excessive food and sugars any time other than PWO you are risking fat gain (and Type II diabestes if you really eat like shit for years on end like this) IMO unless you got a superfat metabolism. Some people can get away with it and thrive on carbs. I don't. I get fat on even complex carbs if I eat enough and consume absolutely no simple sugars other than Pre/PWO. Thank GOD for splenda and equal.

Some combat the fat gain with other drugs but it (insulin) can also raise the shit outta your triglycerides and cholesterol. I have seen this happen for some.
I have always been too scared to pop slin before a work out even with a well established blood amino and sugar level from a pre work out shake and a full day of eating.
Call me a puss but that's me.
To me there is a risk of getting TYPE II diabetes from excessive and prolonged exogenous insulin use as it is mimicking the exact conditions of how it happens naturally.
Many tens of thousands of americans will develop this disease in the next decade unfortunately and it is caused by the high simple sugar diet as everyone knows. You can blunt insulin acceptance by the cells with the excessive sugar causing the pancreass to produce more insulin to compensate and the cells eventually become resistant to it.
If you must use slin, do so in a manner that you can optimize it's effectiveness with out the fat...after a workout or prime it with a shake or do both.

PEACE

 

[Coopie]

A different strategy

So I was talking about this topic with a gym buddy this morning.

Here's what he does and he swears by this strategy.
He looks great - thick mass and pretty well ripped.

POST WORK OUT:

5 iu SLIN (HUM R) followed by 2 scoops CELL TECH
1/2 HOUR LATER he has MESO TECH protein shake
1 HOUR LATER he has a HI CARB drink w/ 2 scoops DESIGNER WHEY
1 HOUR LATER he has 4 slices whole wheat toast w/ 10 egg whites
2 HOURS LATER he has 2 cans tuna
3 HOURS LATER he has 1/2 chicken w/ broccoli
and, I forgot the rest!

What do you guys think? He swears that the Cell Tech in combination with the the Slin gives him a wicked pump that lasts all day. I don't know...

 

[Johan]

as far as I know insulin is anabolic and anti catabolic at the same time.

It pushes BCAA into the muscle and they are proven to prevent muscle protein breakdown and its also proven that it increases protein synthesis.