Facts and Fiction On HGH "self testing methods" Igf/hgh serum

[rAJJIN]

Raj,

The image didnt come from google. It came from a study on Saizen (Merck's GH) and its comparison from needle and their needle less device. It is as good as gold. If you want me to forward you a copy of the study i can. Please do not take this wrong but this is like asking someone that changes spark plugs everyday, to write a paper to a tech school on proper spark plug change procedure. I do this every single day.

You are more than welcome to search pubmed which is the largest collection of medical studies, and it is very well accepted that serum GH from exogenous source peaks at 3-4 hours post injection. Anything i can do to help just let me know. Feel free to PM me.

Alpha,
Can you write something up very professionally ( you are an MD correct?)
And then direct me in a few places to confirm it?
Strictly about what we are talking about here. IGF level and GH serum levels.

Maybe you are correct and its that simple. But for some reason your only person Ive seen that seems to know, so Id like confirmation is all. Nothing wrong with that correct? Ive seen Osiris just recently mentioning it also.

How long have you guys been members here?
And if such simple "spark plug changing" knowledge, why are we just recently seeing and talking about it. I think osiris started this If I remember correctly? Then you jump rite in all the sudden expert level on us.

Hope you understand my questions?

 

[osiris]

You are 100% correct. Timing is important for doing serum HGH but not IGF. If you have been taking legit HGH for weeks and lets say your IGF is 600 and you stop completely today it takes almost a week or two for your IGF levels to come all the way back to normal so it is not affected by matter of hours and when last you injected IGF. And that is the major reason we use this test in the medical field since it is more reliable since timing is not an issue but also we are not worried about fake HGH either.

If you look at the graph i posted, serum HGH peaks between 3-4 hours, but even 10 hours after injection serum levels are at 10 which is way way above normal range. Of course doing the blood test at 12 hours post injection is not the best to find what your peak serum HGH is and may throw you off to think your HGH is not as potent as it really is but you can tell that there is definitely HGH in your vial since most normal levels max at 2.5.

For instance, I took 10 iu serostim im and have blood 3 hours later.....bam , gh serum 38.0. If I repeat this test exactly with different gh, I better get a result of greater than .1. I got that on kigs and we then found,out they were indeed bunk, so imo yeah there is some validity. I get gh serum and igf done

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[alpha6164]

For instance, I took 10 iu serostim im and have blood 3 hours later.....bam , gh serum 38.0. If I repeat this test exactly with different gh, I better get a result of greater than .1. I got that on kigs and we then found,out they were indeed bunk, so imo yeah there is some validity. I get gh serum and igf done

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Exactly

 

[rAJJIN]

Raj,

The image didnt come from google. It came from a study on Saizen (Merck's GH) and its comparison from needle and their needle less device. It is as good as gold. If you want me to forward you a copy of the study i can. Please do not take this wrong but this is like asking someone that changes spark plugs everyday, to write a paper to a tech school on proper spark plug change procedure. I do this every single day.

You are more than welcome to search pubmed which is the largest collection of medical studies, and it is very well accepted that serum GH from exogenous source peaks at 3-4 hours post injection. Anything i can do to help just let me know. Feel free to PM me.

What I meant Alpha from the Google is It was found by you through the internet. Its not a study that you yourself did or was a part of. Its something copied from the internet.

What Im saying is How about we ask the real people that did the real study are questions. The ones that have this in a file, the actual document on the Study THEY done.
Not by one of us that searched the internet and pulled up a graph.
The graph Im looking at you posted does not even say what it is... just a graph.

If you do this everyday then why not post your Documents? Why Mercks website?

 

[alpha6164]

Alpha,
Can you write something up very professionally ( you are an MD correct?)
And then direct me in a few places to confirm it?
Strictly about what we are talking about here. IGF level and GH serum levels.

Maybe you are correct and its that simple. But for some reason your only person Ive seen that seems to know, so Id like confirmation is all. Nothing wrong with that correct? Ive seen Osiris just recently mentioning it also.

How long have you guys been members here?
And if such simple "spark plug changing" knowledge, why are we just recently seeing and talking about it. I think osiris started this If I remember correctly? Then you jump rite in all the sudden expert level on us.

Hope you understand my questions?

As i said i am willing to help in anyway i can . Yes, i am an M.D. Osiris and a few around here have seen my actual credentials but if you ever wanted to verify me contact me thru PM and i will more than glad to forward any info. I will gather some information and some links and studies for you that will confirm what Osiris and i are saying about IGF and serum HGH.

I joined exactly a year ago and even though i dont have a 1000 posts yet, you can go back and check but i try to make every post count and help the members to the best my abilities. I can post 30 worthless posts a day but the 500 some i have posted all were mostly trying to help someone on this board. Honestly the reason i had not talked so much about self testing is i was so unaware what a screwy business this is in reality and how many scammers are out there or even when the sponsors are legit, their sources switch products or batches on them. If you remember i was one of the first ones that called BS to the Stephen Murphy crap with his FDA approval bull shit he was feeding everybody and i asked everyone to test their IGF at least.

But unfortunately many members here dont have the means, the know how or knowledge. For me, i own my offices, so i can get an IGF and serum HGH done every week if i wanted to and it costs me nothing. So i figured if i have that luxury why not pass it on.

I do this work but on patients. Even if I did the research right now, you may come back and say "you are the one doing research it may be flawed, why not go to the source that did the research." Not sure which way you want to go. Do you think the researchers at Merck are willing to take a call from you or either me asking if they have published for the whole world to see is true or not? It is a rhetorical question. They have posted it for everyone to see because they believe the information is accurate. It is just not that study there are several studies that show what the peak levels of exogenous administered HGH would be. I am not sure what else you want me to say

 

[rAJJIN]

Osiris,
Can you get me one vial of your Serostim?
For experimenting with. Ill pay the cost of it of course.

 

[rAJJIN]

As i said i am willing to help in anyway i can . Yes, i am an M.D. Osiris and a few around here have seen my actual credentials but if you ever wanted to verify me contact me thru PM and i will more than glad to forward any info. I will gather some information and some links and studies for you that will confirm what Osiris and i are saying about IGF and serum HGH.

I joined exactly a year ago and even though i dont have a 1000 posts yet, you can go back and check but i try to make every post count and help the members to the best my abilities. I can post 30 worthless posts a day but the 500 some i have posted all were mostly trying to help someone on this board. Honestly the reason i had not talked so much about self testing is i was so unaware what a screwy business this is in reality and how many scammers are out there or even when the sponsors are legit, their sources switch products or batches on them. If you remember i was one of the first ones that called BS to the Stephen Murphy crap with his FDA approval bull shit he was feeding everybody and i asked everyone to test their IGF at least.

But unfortunately many members here dont have the means, the know how or knowledge. For me, i own my offices, so i can get an IGF and serum HGH done every week if i wanted to and it costs me nothing. So i figured if i have that luxury why not pass it on.

Thanks for the honest Answers.
If you think the sponsors are screwy you should see some of the member's we have had to deal with! reverse scammers, Competitors, Angry customers or banned members. Ive learn to never just trust and believe everyone- member sponsor whatever it goes for all people.
So I try to verify things and make my own best decisions.

Ive read most all threads to come through here for more then 10 years.
Ive seen it from every angle.... It goes both ways. Its the reason we have rules.
If you think Im not out to protect the members best interest here your certainly mistaking.

 

[alpha6164]

Thanks for the honest Answers.
If you think the sponsors are screwy you should see some of the member's we have had to deal with! reverse scammers, Competitors, Angry customers or banned members. Ive learn to never just trust and believe everyone- member sponsor whatever it goes for all people.
So I try to verify things and make my own best decisions.

Ive read most all threads to come through here for more then 10 years.
Ive seen it from every angle.... It goes both ways. Its the reason we have rules.
If you think Im not out to protect the members best interest here your certainly mistaking.

Trust me i fully understand your position. It has to be a fine balance. The couple of incidences that i even have had, i have been very cordial with the sponsors and took pics of the lots, including offer to ship everything back how it came in so they dont think i have used up all the good and now complaining, and wanting free stuff. I am fortunate enough that money is not an issue but time is money. To be using a product for weeks on ends to fund out the stuff is crap really pisses me off. And to the members here who i see save nickle and dime to save up for this stuff and turns out to be garbage bothers me even more.

Osiris is very respected here and i think is considered a core at least by me lol, and has a very good grasp of this. Feel free to correspond with him to gather information as well. If there is anything i can do feel free to contact me as well. My resources are a lil more wide open :headbang:

 

[rAJJIN]

Alpha,
Looking at your graph it tells us the Time at which the medicine peaks correct?

Do you have one by Merck or another reputable company that shows Charted
or Graphed HGH serum levels?

Would you say if a person was to depend on one or the other for a more accurate idea of Real Vs Not real-
IGF or hgh serum would be more dependable and accurate?

 

[osiris]

Alpha,
Can you write something up very professionally ( you are an MD correct?)
And then direct me in a few places to confirm it?
Strictly about what we are talking about here. IGF level and GH serum levels.

Maybe you are correct and its that simple. But for some reason your only person Ive seen that seems to know, so Id like confirmation is all. Nothing wrong with that correct? Ive seen Osiris just recently mentioning it also.

How long have you guys been members here?
And if such simple "spark plug changing" knowledge, why are we just recently seeing and talking about it. I think osiris started this If I remember correctly? Then you jump rite in all the sudden expert level on us.

Hope you understand my questions?

If by just recently, you mean it started being talked about a year ago actively, yeah recently. dat mentioned it WAY back in the day.numerous times. Its not new, I am not sure how in depth you read peptide forums and threads but that could be why you missed it

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[MisterRut1]

Alpha - Would the quality of GH be indicated by the serum number assuming it was the same person and the testing conditions were the same? Like for Osiris, he had 38 with Sero, lets say he had 29 with GHBrand2 (or whatever), would it then be safe to say the Sero is of better quality?

 

[rAJJIN]

If by just recently, you mean it started being talked about a year ago actively, yeah recently. dat mentioned it WAY back in the day.numerous times. Its not new, I am not sure how in depth hour read peptide forums and threads but that could be why you missed it

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Ok can you direct me to the posts.
Show me one please by you or Alpha 1 yr ago that talks about HGH serum levels.
Ill sure spend the time to look for them.
All this Is new here, just recently hitting the main forum anyway. Ill admit I do not read all the other forums and peptide stuff.

Again, can you send me one of your Serostim?
Id Like to use the exact same brand and method you did too confirm
its the same on me, Not a Big HUGE Variable from person to person.
We want something that is accurate for us to go by, its the idea of this thread.

 

[alpha6164]

Alpha,
Looking at your graph it tells us the Time at which the medicine peaks correct?

Do you have one by Merck or another reputable company that shows Charted
or Graphed HGH serum levels?

Would you say if a person was to depend on one or the other for a more accurate idea of Real Vs Not real-
IGF or hgh serum would be more dependable and accurate?

To explain the graph. You can see the vertical axis is the serum HGH numbers. The horizontal axis is time lapsed. So injection was gives at time 0. We can see that even at 1 hour mark (if you divide the space between 0 and 4 hours), that the serum HGH level is already at ~7 which is way above normal range at 3-4hours it peaks at 18-20 and gradually falls off and at 12 hours it is about 2.5 which is the upper range of normal.

If one was to choose a single test outside of dropping $800 for lab analysis to test validity of the HGH would be to do a serum HGH test. Because it will only detect protein that is 22k daltons in weight which is growth hormone and since we know that 5iu injection should bring your level to 18-20 then it is a good bet. This is how great science works. Isnt it interesting that Osiris did 10iu of serostim and brought his level to 38 which is practically double the Merck study which was 5iu.

IGF is checks more how efficient your body is converting HGH to IGF-1. As i said before if you have been on 3 week of a brand x and your IGF-1 comes at 600 you are damn sure that it is legit HGH. Hope that makes sense.

 

[rAJJIN]

By core 'members' Gusy what I mean are guys here for 5-10 years.
Guys that are as trustworthy as any member we have.
Guys that are not sponsors or reps, or in anyway affiliated with sponsors or reps.

Both of you know you do not fall in that group. Your both affiliated, neither have been here 5 years or longer.
I do like you both, Osiris is a VIP on my forum. Although he has been banned before I still think he is a good honest guy with a lot to offer, same for you Alpha.

But when it comes to guys doing a controlled experiment ( if we can all get along and get it that far) Ill look for the guys in NO way affilaietd with any sponsors. Regular trusted members, not sponsors or mods.
It would be the best way.

 

[alpha6164]

Alpha - Would the quality of GH be indicated by the serum number assuming it was the same person and the testing conditions were the same? Like for Osiris, he had 38 with Sero, lets say he had 29 with GHBrand2 (or whatever), would it then be safe to say the Sero is of better quality?

Yes quality and purity makes a huge difference. The serum HGH test picks up molecule that weighs 22k daltons. If the product has a bunch of garbage that weight 8k daltons or 40k daltons then it wont be picked up. And even if two products contained all same 22k dalton growth hormone even their structure would make a huge difference. Remember that HGH is not a string of amino acids stuck together like a string in a straight line. It has a 3D helical structure with a very specific shape. If it looses its shape, it wont fit the receptor and will not activate the pathways it needs to and may cause increase in antibody production. It is like two keys that weight the same but one fits the hole and the other doesnt. This is where IGF comes in. So the serum HGH tells you at least you have HGH, then you test your IGF-1 3-4 weeks later to make sure you are converting it properly.

 

[rAJJIN]

To explain the graph. You can see the vertical axis is the serum HGH numbers. The horizontal axis is time lapsed. So injection was gives at time 0. We can see that even at 1 hour mark (if you divide the space between 0 and 4 hours), that the serum HGH level is already at ~7 which is way above normal range at 3-4hours it peaks at 18-20 and gradually falls off and at 12 hours it is about 2.5 which is the upper range of normal.

If one was to choose a single test outside of dropping $800 for lab analysis to test validity of the HGH would be to do a serum HGH test. Because it will only detect protein that is 22k daltons in weight which is growth hormone and since we know that 5iu injection should bring your level to 18-20 then it is a good bet. This is how great science works. Isnt it interesting that Osiris did 10iu of serostim and brought his level to 38 which is practically double the Merck study which was 5iu.

IGF is checks more how efficient your body is converting HGH to IGF-1. As i said before if you have been on 3 week of a brand x and your IGF-1 comes at 600 you are damn sure that it is legit HGH. Hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense, thanks for explaining it.

 

[MisterRut1]

Yes quality and purity makes a huge difference. The serum HGH test picks up molecule that weighs 22k daltons. If the product has a bunch of garbage that weight 8k daltons or 40k daltons then it wont be picked up. And even if two products contained all same 22k dalton growth hormone even their structure would make a huge difference. Remember that HGH is not a string of amino acids stuck together like a string in a straight line. It has a 3D helical structure with a very specific shape. If it looses its shape, it wont fit the receptor and will not activate the pathways it needs to and may cause increase in antibody production. It is like two keys that weight the same but one fits the hole and the other doesnt. This is where IGF comes in. So the serum HGH tells you at least you have HGH, then you test your IGF-1 3-4 weeks later to make sure you are converting it properly.

Okay so for the same person, taking the same dose with the same conditions, that number does matter when looking at the purity of the GH in question. Any idea on the relationship between the number? Is it a linear type deal where a Serum level of 30 would indicate that the GH was twice as good as a different brand that gave you a serum level of 15? Or is there some other relationship? Or maybe too many other variables. I'm thinking in as controlled of an environment as possible.

May be worth someones while to buy a bunch of types and run these tests and then do a cost/benefit type analysis to figure out what makes the most sense financially.

 

[osiris]

Ok can you direct me to the posts.
Show me one please by you or Alpha 1 yr ago that talks about HGH serum levels.
Ill sure spend the time to look for them.
All this Is new here, just recently hitting the main forum anyway. Ill admit I do not read all the other forums and peptide stuff.

Again, can you send me one of your Serostim?
Id Like to use the exact same brand and method you did too confirm
its the same on me, Not a Big HUGE Variable from person to person.
We want something that is accurate for us to go by, its the idea of this thread.

I am not talking about me discussing it a year ago, it was being discussed by guys like springwater.etc. It has been discussed on other boards also.

I will pm you for an address to send the entire report with my name and all to you. I have nothing to hide I will send you my exact testing procedure and all I use raj

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[rAJJIN]

Im out for the day guys.
same as you all I'm just trying to learn and help.
I use these products myself. Hope the thread stays in the rite direction.

One thing I wonder is can any other meds or variables throw the Serum level off? It just seems after reading your post its more "sensative" then the IGF test?

Any do or do not things a members should know about?

And where and How much is it for the testing-
Someone mentioned walk into Wal-Mart?

 

[alpha6164]

Im out for the day guys.
same as you all I'm just trying to learn and help.
I use these products myself. Hope the thread stays in the rite direction.

One thing I wonder is can any other meds or variables throw the Serum level off? It just seems after reading your post its more "sensative" then the IGF test?

Any do or do not things a members should know about?

And where and How much is it for the testing-
Someone mentioned walk into Wal-Mart?

There are many things can throw of IGF-1 (up or down 20%) or endogenous production of GH but nothing that will effect exogenous source. You are basically injecting growth hormone thru one door (sub Q) and catching it on the other end 3 hours later so to speak. Go to privatemdlabs.com and search Serum Growth Hormone and it is the $49 test. Osiris has a code that gives a discount from that. You simply add that test to your shopping cart, pay for it, print the form and walk in to the nearest LabCorp and get blood drawn and they will email your results in 48hours