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Fertility program success on TRT

Sides

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I post this to help out any guys like myself who have been using testosterone and other steroids for many years, and who still want to have children without going off test. It is possible, even for guys like me who have been taking steroids for a very long time.

I am 50 and have been taking test and other steroids for 26 years now...on and off, but mostly on. My last time off was in 2010, I have been on testosterone without a break for almost 8 years now.

I have children with an ex-wife, but got married to another woman in October of 2017. We each have our own fertility concerns, as I am 50 and she is 41, but we wanted to try for at least one more child of our own.

In November of 2017 I started on my fertility program, which has changed over the months but has evolved to the following:

200mg test cypionate per week
500iu HCG every other day
60iu HMG every day
50mg Clomid every day
25mg Proviron every day
2-4iu HGH every day

This program seems to have been successful. My wife and I had IVF done this week. They extracted 21 eggs from her, of which my sperm fertilized 14. So hopefully I will be a father again soon.

My sperm count started out at zero, completely azoospermatic. But as the months went on it rose to 4 million per ml, then to 7 million per ml, then eventually to 12 million. Sperm motility, morphology, and forward progression started out very poor, but continued to get better and better as the months went on.

The program evolved as it went along. I didn't have access to HMG for the first few months, which would have helped a lot more. I added small amounts of a Chinese generic HMG in April, then got pharma grade Menopur in July and Merional in August. My FSH and LH were zero when I started, but taking the Merional at 60iu per day brought FSH up to a consistent 5.0 on a range from 1.5-12.4 miu/ml. Having earlier access to HMG would have helped more, but I couldn't get my fertility doctor to prescribe it, and I was limited to what I could buy on the black market.

My fertility doctor wanted to increase my HCG to 3000iu every other day, but that was way too much for me and raised my E2 levels above the top of the range, 64.7 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml. This caused me gynecomastia, anxiety, lack of libido, and erectile dysfunction. My fertility doctor's response to this was to prescribe me an aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole, at 2.5mg per day. Again, that was way too much for me and crashed my E2, causing me even worse libido and erectile dysfunction, although it did help clear up my gynecomastia. I cut back on the Letrozole to .5mg every other day, but after 6 weeks my E2 was still crashed at <5.0 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml, so I cut out the Letrozole completely. If I had to do it all over again, I would have kept the HCG at 500iu every other day, and avoided the use of Letrozole completely. Moderate consistent low doses of the drugs has been much better to me than high doses of anything, although I can appreciate that there are studies where the high doses have worked for people.

Regarding Proviron and Clomid, I am not sure how much they helped or hurt depending on their effects. I started out with good free test numbers (21.0 on a range from 7.2-24.0 pg/mL, total test at 1014 ng/dL), but as the program went on my SHBG rose to very high levels (112.5 on a range from 19.3-76.4 nmol/L).

This obviously had a negative effect on my levels of free test and free E2, both of which are important to libido and erectile function, not to mention muscle strength and size. And my libido was good at first but much worse as the program went on, although obviously it is hard to separate out the combined effects of all the compounds involved (HCG, HMG, Proviron, Clomid, the letrozole my fertility doc had me on for a while before it drove E2 too low, etc.)

In the end, I can only be happy and grateful to God that the program seems to have worked. I was able to recover my sperm count after many years of steroid use, and successfully fertilize my wife's eggs, and hopefully we will have a baby in the near future. However, I am always interested if the program could have been better or worse, for other people who want to try a fertility program in the future.

But at least my experience has shown that the program did work, that even if men have used steroids for many years, and that you can have children without ever having to go off of testosterone. So I am grateful that it all seems to have worked out for the best.
 

Reload

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Congratulations guys.

I've been down this road myself with the wife so I can commiserate with what you've both been going through. Similar backstory.
Azoospermia due to years of use/abuse. Leydig and Sertoli cells fried!
We had to go with ICSI and had two very healthy daughters 5 years apart.

Your half way there.
Best of luck with the implantation and carrying to full term.
 

Sides

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Congratulations guys.

I've been down this road myself with the wife so I can commiserate with what you've both been going through. Similar backstory.
Azoospermia due to years of use/abuse. Leydig and Sertoli cells fried!
We had to go with ICSI and had two very healthy daughters 5 years apart.

Your half way there.
Best of luck with the implantation and carrying to full term.

Thanks, we appreciate the kind thoughts.

ICSI is great if that gets the job done. We didn't use that on this IVF cycle, but would on the next cycle if that becomes necessary. My wife developed ovarian hyper stimulation syndrome on this cycle, so we have to freeze the embryos and put off implantation for a month until her hormones get back in order. But your example gives us hope that everything will work out.

Congratulations on your healthy daughters. We hope that we will be so fortunate.
 

dale338

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Jun 15, 2016
Messages
766
I post this to help out any guys like myself who have been using testosterone and other steroids for many years, and who still want to have children without going off test. It is possible, even for guys like me who have been taking steroids for a very long time.

I am 50 and have been taking test and other steroids for 26 years now...on and off, but mostly on. My last time off was in 2010, I have been on testosterone without a break for almost 8 years now.

I have children with an ex-wife, but got married to another woman in October of 2017. We each have our own fertility concerns, as I am 50 and she is 41, but we wanted to try for at least one more child of our own.

In November of 2017 I started on my fertility program, which has changed over the months but has evolved to the following:


200mg test cypionate per week
500iu HCG every other day
60iu HMG every day
50mg Clomid every day
25mg Proviron every day
2-4iu HGH every day

This program seems to have been successful. My wife and I had IVF done this week. They extracted 21 eggs from her, of which my sperm fertilized 14. So hopefully I will be a father again soon.

My sperm count started out at zero, completely azoospermatic. But as the months went on it rose to 4 million per ml, then to 7 million per ml, then eventually to 12 million. Sperm motility, morphology, and forward progression started out very poor, but continued to get better and better as the months went on.

The program evolved as it went along. I didn't have access to HMG for the first few months, which would have helped a lot more. I added small amounts of a Chinese generic HMG in April, then got pharma grade Menopur in July and Merional in August. My FSH and LH were zero when I started, but taking the Merional at 60iu per day brought FSH up to a consistent 5.0 on a range from 1.5-12.4 miu/ml. Having earlier access to HMG would have helped more, but I couldn't get my fertility doctor to prescribe it, and I was limited to what I could buy on the black market.

My fertility doctor wanted to increase my HCG to 3000iu every other day, but that was way too much for me and raised my E2 levels above the top of the range, 64.7 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml. This caused me gynecomastia, anxiety, lack of libido, and erectile dysfunction. My fertility doctor's response to this was to prescribe me an aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole, at 2.5mg per day. Again, that was way too much for me and crashed my E2, causing me even worse libido and erectile dysfunction, although it did help clear up my gynecomastia. I cut back on the Letrozole to .5mg every other day, but after 6 weeks my E2 was still crashed at <5.0 on a range from 0-60.7 pg/ml, so I cut out the Letrozole completely. If I had to do it all over again, I would have kept the HCG at 500iu every other day, and avoided the use of Letrozole completely. Moderate consistent low doses of the drugs has been much better to me than high doses of anything, although I can appreciate that there are studies where the high doses have worked for people.

Regarding Proviron and Clomid, I am not sure how much they helped or hurt depending on their effects. I started out with good free test numbers (21.0 on a range from 7.2-24.0 pg/mL, total test at 1014 ng/dL), but as the program went on my SHBG rose to very high levels (112.5 on a range from 19.3-76.4 nmol/L).

This obviously had a negative effect on my levels of free test and free E2, both of which are important to libido and erectile function, not to mention muscle strength and size. And my libido was good at first but much worse as the program went on, although obviously it is hard to separate out the combined effects of all the compounds involved (HCG, HMG, Proviron, Clomid, the letrozole my fertility doc had me on for a while before it drove E2 too low, etc.)

In the end, I can only be happy and grateful to God that the program seems to have worked. I was able to recover my sperm count after many years of steroid use, and successfully fertilize my wife's eggs, and hopefully we will have a baby in the near future. However, I am always interested if the program could have been better or worse, for other people who want to try a fertility program in the future.

But at least my experience has shown that the program did work, that even if men have used steroids for many years, and that you can have children without ever having to go off of testosterone. So I am grateful that it all seems to have worked out for the best.

Congrats. However, in my case being a single guy, I do not want any kids from playing with a few lady friends. I have been on TRT for three years and just recently got my sperm count done. My count came back at 140,000 which is statistically impossible to get any woman pregnant through usual sex. And the few swimmers I had weren't swimming anyhow. Basically the fertility clinic that ran the test said, I am not gonna knock anyone up.

TRT without running anything else like clomid of HCG, is basically birth control for men.
 

Sides

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Congrats. However, in my case being a single guy, I do not want any kids from playing with a few lady friends. I have been on TRT for three years and just recently got my sperm count done. My count came back at 140,000 which is statistically impossible to get any woman pregnant through usual sex. And the few swimmers I had weren't swimming anyhow. Basically the fertility clinic that ran the test said, I am not gonna knock anyone up.

TRT without running anything else like clomid of HCG, is basically birth control for men.

LOL, of course that's true as well. For many years I was fine with having a zero sperm count, as it allowed me to have bareback sex with many women without ever having to worry about making them pregnant. So that helped me out a lot in my single days, and worked very well for that purpose.

But when I got married and my new wife wanted us to have at least one child of our own, then I had to change things and restore my sperm count. So it is good to know that you can restore sperm count without ever having to go off of test.
 

MyNameIsJeff

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Congrats. However, in my case being a single guy, I do not want any kids from playing with a few lady friends. I have been on TRT for three years and just recently got my sperm count done. My count came back at 140,000 which is statistically impossible to get any woman pregnant through usual sex. And the few swimmers I had weren't swimming anyhow. Basically the fertility clinic that ran the test said, I am not gonna knock anyone up.

TRT without running anything else like clomid of HCG, is basically birth control for men.
Curious what kind of unusual sex is needed then :cool:
 

GaJoe

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On the same road currently... minus hmg... coming off trt completely is challenging as I don't make enough on my own..I've been reading of guys staying on trt and becoming fertile again...congrats! Do you feel hmg was the game changer?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Professional Muscle mobile app
 

Sides

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Messages
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On the same road currently... minus hmg... coming off trt completely is challenging as I don't make enough on my own..I've been reading of guys staying on trt and becoming fertile again...congrats! Do you feel hmg was the game changer?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Professional Muscle mobile app

HMG was definitely an important factor, and may have been the game changer I needed.

If I look at the different semen analyses that were done, 6 months of HCG restored my sperm count to 4 million, but with poor motility and forward progression. Adding HMG triggered the increase to 7 million and then 12 million, and vastly improved the motility, morphology, and forward progression.

So I would definitely recommend taking HMG if you can, or even better recombinant FSH. My fertility doctor would never prescribe HMG or FSH for me, so I had to buy it on my own from online sources.

But the best thing would have been if my doctor would have agreed to prescribe FSH. Empower Pharmacy in Texas has 1200iu vials of FSH available for about $350 per vial, which is the lowest priced FSH in America. They ship all over the USA, so if your doctor will agree to prescribe FSH for you, they are the best option.
 

dale338

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Curious what kind of unusual sex is needed then :cool:

Well I mean with a sperm count of less then 5 million you are unlikely to get a woman pregnant with sex. You'd need fertility intervention. I mean it can happen, but it's rare. A sperm count of 140,000 with non swimmers, like I have, is statistically better then any birth control, minus being snipped. I''d have better odds of winning the lotto then knocking up a woman.

You see guys posting all the time how they had a child while on T. But if you dive further into their stories, many were also on HCG, or Clomid, or they were cycling. 10 weeks on T and going back to natural will lower sperm count, but not kill it off. If you are on TRT for longer then like a year with no HCG, no clomid, etc. you will be sterile.
 

herculeus

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This statement is not accurate at all.

I have been using for 6 years, blasting and cruising for 4 years, and got my fiancé pregnant while on a full blown cycle 6 months ago. You wouldn’t know if you were sterile or not unless you get your sperm count checked.

Well I mean with a sperm count of less then 5 million you are unlikely to get a woman pregnant with sex. You'd need fertility intervention. I mean it can happen, but it's rare. A sperm count of 140,000 with non swimmers, like I have, is statistically better then any birth control, minus being snipped. I''d have better odds of winning the lotto then knocking up a woman.

You see guys posting all the time how they had a child while on T. But if you dive further into their stories, many were also on HCG, or Clomid, or they were cycling. 10 weeks on T and going back to natural will lower sperm count, but not kill it off. If you are on TRT for longer then like a year with no HCG, no clomid, etc. you will be sterile.
 

Swifto

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How long did you run this protocol?

Interesting and thanks for sharing this :)
 

dale338

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This statement is not accurate at all.

I have been using for 6 years, blasting and cruising for 4 years, and got my fiancé pregnant while on a full blown cycle 6 months ago. You wouldn’t know if you were sterile or not unless you get your sperm count checked.

What else were you running. Because in all the studies I've read, like 98% of men are considered sterile when running TRT, at like 100mg doses or higher per week after 6 months. You might just be a freak of nature, (in a good way) TRT is considered a form of BC for men, when only T is used and not other compounds or HCG, etc.
 

Sides

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How long did you run this protocol?

Interesting and thanks for sharing this :)

In total I have been running my fertility protocol for almost 11 months now, although different things were added at different times.

I should also mention that before I started my fertility protocol, I had been running at least 400-500mg of test per week for many years as a base, and just finished up a cycle of Masteron Enanthate and Tren Enanthate at the end of November.

At the end of November I cut out the other steroids, and decreased the amount of test cyp I was taking to 300mg per week. I also added in the Proviron, Clomid, and HCG at a low dose of 125iu per day, and I started the HGH.

I didn't have access to HMG until April, when I added in a Chinese generic version of HMG at 25iu per day.

In late May I decreased my test to 200mg per week, and increased the HCG to 500iu every other day.

At the beginning of June I had my first semen analysis, which put my sperm count at 4 million. It is important to understand that it takes sperm about 2.5 months to mature (anywhere from 42 to 76 days, depending on the person.) So a sperm count is always a snapshot of where you were and what you were doing about 2.5 months ago. My semen analysis at the beginning of June showed the effects of what I was taking back in late March or early April.

In July I added the pharm grade HMG, first Menopur from Portugal, and then in August I switched to Merional from Turkey at a dose of 60iu per day (split into two daily injections because of the short half life of FSH and LH, so a morning and evening injection of 30iu.)

In late July I started working with a fertility doctor, who recommended increasing my dose of HCG to 3000iu every other day. This didn't work out for me, as it raised my estrogen way too high, so I had to cut back the dose. In late August, my fertility doctor prescribed me Letrozole at 2.5 per day to control the estrogen, but that dose was way too high and crushed my E2 to nothing.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have kept the HCG at 500iu every other day for the whole program, and avoided the Letrozole completely.
 
Last edited:

herculeus

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I was running...

600mg test
400mg EQ
300mg Tren
50mg var

I honestly thought that I was sterile because before my fiancé, I never got anyone else pregnant. But I guess we did it when she was ovulating unplanned which led to her becoming pregnant.

That being said I know plenty of others that have conceived on cycle as well, my one buddy had all 3 of his kids on cycle. My soon to be brother in law also conceived his child on a full blown cycle during a prep. Skip Hill also conceived his youngest daughter while on a cycle for three years straight.

If I do have difficulties in the future, Mike Arnold put his protocol out there that I would most likely follow which is: Mon/Wed/Fri: HMG @ 75 iu
Tues/Thurs/Sat: HCG @ 2,000



What else were you running. Because in all the studies I've read, like 98% of men are considered sterile when running TRT, at like 100mg doses or higher per week after 6 months. You might just be a freak of nature, (in a good way) TRT is considered a form of BC for men, when only T is used and not other compounds or HCG, etc.
 

xpac2

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Been cycling 2-3 times a year for the last 17 years. No fertility protocol and never ran HCG. Just had my first kid 5 weeks ago. Don't count on test as sure fire birth control lol
 

GaJoe

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HMG was definitely an important factor, and may have been the game changer I needed.

If I look at the different semen analyses that were done, 6 months of HCG restored my sperm count to 4 million, but with poor motility and forward progression. Adding HMG triggered the increase to 7 million and then 12 million, and vastly improved the motility, morphology, and forward progression.

So I would definitely recommend taking HMG if you can, or even better recombinant FSH. My fertility doctor would never prescribe HMG or FSH for me, so I had to buy it on my own from online sources.

But the best thing would have been if my doctor would have agreed to prescribe FSH. Empower Pharmacy in Texas has 1200iu vials of FSH available for about $350 per vial, which is the lowest priced FSH in America. They ship all over the USA, so if your doctor will agree to prescribe FSH for you, they are the best option.
I have yet to try HMG but looks like it's time to do some home work. Everyone that has used it seems to agree it is the game changer. Tried the fertility dr... first question he asked me was "you're a big guy have you used steroids?"...when I answered he showed me the door and said he couldn't help me ... on the way out he told me to go get a testicular biopsy...ugh. Have been using hcg eod @500 for a few weeks. Different brands as well. No noticeable difference so far.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Professional Muscle mobile app
 

Sides

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I have yet to try HMG but looks like it's time to do some home work. Everyone that has used it seems to agree it is the game changer. Tried the fertility dr... first question he asked me was "you're a big guy have you used steroids?"...when I answered he showed me the door and said he couldn't help me ... on the way out he told me to go get a testicular biopsy...ugh. Have been using hcg eod @500 for a few weeks. Different brands as well. No noticeable difference so far.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Professional Muscle mobile app

Yeah, that attitude on the part of fertility doctors is just ridiculous. You really have to look around to find a good one; there are plenty of doctors out there but very few who have any knowledge of how to treat a testosterone or anabolic steroid user who is seeking to restart his fertility.

I was not happy with my fertility doctor either, as he had no ideas for me beyond the protocol I had already developed through my own research. His three big ideas were all colossal failures for me: He wanted to lower my testosterone dosage to 100mg per week, which was just too low for me because I have very high SHBG levels. He wanted to increase the amount of HCG I was taking to 3000iu every other day, which was way too high for me and raised my estrogen levels so high that I developed gynecomastia, low libido, and erectile dysfunction. And then he treated the high estrogen by prescribing me 2.5mg of Letrozole per day, which again was way too high for me and crashed my estrogen to practically zero, causing me even worse libido problems and erectile dysfunction. So honestly I feel I was better off on my own protocol than following his ideas, although he was helpful in giving me prescriptions for HCG, Clomid, and Test, along with the Letrozole. He never would prescribe me HMG or FSH, so I was on my own as far as sourcing that stuff.

You will really have to look around to find a good open-minded fertility doctor, or do all the work yourself.

As far as keeping test in the program, or going off test completely, of course in the old days they would always have recommended dropping the testosterone and waiting for your body to recover and start producing test and sperm on it's own. That's the old-fashioned way of doing it, and it works. But my example, and the example of other men, show that if you are using HMG and HCG, you can stay on test the whole time and still manage to rebuild your sperm count. It is possible.

Unfortunately, there have been no studies done on men on testosterone therapy using HMG and HCG to rebuild their sperm count, so we have to depend on studies done on men who got off testosterone. I have attached a couple of good articles below.

In the first article ("Age and duration of testosterone therapy predict time to return of sperm count after human chorionic gonadotropin therapy"), men who got off test completely and started HCG were mostly able to recover sperm counts up to a standard of 5 million total motile sperm count.

From Figure 1, you can see that for a man like me, 50 years old and having used testosterone for over 10 years, my chance of recovering my sperm count to 5 million within 6 months was only 15.6%, and my chance of recovering within 1 year was only 34.1%. That's for men who got off test completely and waited for their bodies to recover with HCG.

But I was was able to recover my sperm count to over 5 million total motile count within 9 months, using HCG and HMG, without ever going off test at all. I used testosterone the whole time, and I still recovered better than most of those men.

So I have to say that as long as you can get access to HMG and HCG, you probably should be able to recover your sperm count, without ever going off test at all. It certainly worked for me.


https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)62919-9/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5292276/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/
 
Last edited:

ELIMINATOR

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200 t per week with 1,000 iu's hcg every 3 days worked for me. I also used nolvadex at 20mg every day to help control estrogen. To be fair at the beginning I did use HMG at 75 iu's 3 x per week for about 2 months. Took about 6 months for this to all work.
 

dale338

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200 t per week with 1,000 iu's hcg every 3 days worked for me. I also used nolvadex at 20mg every day to help control estrogen. To be fair at the beginning I did use HMG at 75 iu's 3 x per week for about 2 months. Took about 6 months for this to all work.

Before you did the HMG and HCG, What were your numbers?
 

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