Fertility, what i've been through.

[TODouble2]

Preserving fertility in the hypogonadal patient: an update

Concomitant intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin preserves spermatogenesis in men undergoing testosterone replacement therapy. - PubMed - NCBI

It is freaking amazing to me and im bitter about it even today at how much shit I caught back in 1999 when i told everyone about blasting and cruising (which are common words used today that came directly from me)...and I proposed that people should do shorter cycles and send intermittent signals using hcg clomid and nolvadex (all that was available at that time) for 7-21 days between short blasts......so as to never drive themselves into a domant state. I caught so much flack for my theory, with endless arguments online....huge battles on message boards.....but I believed in my theory while others thought I was full of shit and PCT drugs should be dumped in the garbage....here we are 17 years or so later and whoa....seems alot of what I was proposing and theorizing came to fruition.....and its the direct reasons my trainees never disintegrated into looking like nonlifters when they got off the sauce and also the reason my trainees were able to have children when they ended up deciding to have children. Ive caught alot of flack over the years with stuff that nowadays seems like "common wordspeak" to alot of you guys in the bodybuilding world...from "blasting/crusing", use of good fats/oils when lowfat/and "fat is evil" at the time was the rage, extreme stretching (proved out once again), higher frequency of training which seems to be getting uber popular right now,....multiple arguments back in the day on many of these subjects which has resulted with me getting the "I told you so" today in the end.....but these HPTA ones stick with me because I remember 2 distinctive individuals taking me to task back in the day...blasting me on a board that isnt around any more...saying some real disparaging stuff about me personally.....where are you now that this has come full circle and the exact things you were arguing about are kicking you in the face?

Ok rant over.......... sorry

i read through those two studies and they are very comforting in my current situation. thanks for that.

i'll talk to the doctor about adding in hmg... but for now my best course of action i guess is staying on course with hcg and clomid and adding 3 grams of taurine.

i appraciate your input greatly.

 

[Trojan Muscle]

Hey there- -

Unfortunately, we had to under go IVF as a result...upside is we have a beatiful set of twins!

Stay positive, and it will work out, though not how you had intended!

 

[TODouble2]

Hey there- -

Unfortunately, we had to under go IVF as a result...upside is we have a beatiful set of twins!

Stay positive, and it will work out, though not how you had intended!

i've done IVF already.. 3 times.

first time one embryo. she got pregnant and miscarried a week later.
second time two embryos. negative
third time one embryo. negative.

does it make sense that something could have been wrong with the sperm from being on testosterone at the time? i dont understand how none of them worked. my wife and i have gone through so much grief in the past year and a half. its nothing but bad news over and over again.

 

[mike036]

i read through those two studies and they are very comforting in my current situation. thanks for that.

i'll talk to the doctor about adding in hmg... but for now my best course of action i guess is staying on course with hcg and clomid and adding 3 grams of taurine.

i appraciate your input greatly.

I was having issues getting my wife pregnant and we went to a fertility specialist .he prescribed me hcg and hmg .my sperm count was zero when I first started and was over 20 million after a couple of months on medication .it took about 8-9 months of trying and my son is now 1 years old .you did state you are seeing a urologist but maybe try a fertility doc .best of luck to you and your wife .keep trying !

 

[Trojan Muscle]

Not at all!
We finally got pregnant with ours on the 5th go 'round...2 miscarriages prior, as well.
Stick with it, bud!

 

[maldorf]

How about your wife?

Is it possible that she has problems with her eggs? Perhaps you have a case here where both of you have fertility problems?

My sister in law tried IVF 3x and they all failed too. It was she that had issues and not him as far as I know. They finally adopted and then about 1 year later they conceived a baby naturally when they weren't even trying! Things can work out strange like that.

 

[TODouble2]

I was having issues getting my wife pregnant and we went to a fertility specialist .he prescribed me hcg and hmg .my sperm count was zero when I first started and was over 20 million after a couple of months on medication .it took about 8-9 months of trying and my son is now 1 years old .you did state you are seeing a urologist but maybe try a fertility doc .best of luck to you and your wife .keep trying !

Well we have the fertility doc who's doing the IVF procedures. He's more like her doctor really. They will do sperm analysis and stuff like that but he doesn't know much about about prescribing stuff for men it seems. I went to a fertility urologist prior to this doctor, but he didn't take any Insurance and I simply didn't like him. At the end of the day, they will be prescribing the same meds anyway. If my current doc won't give me hmg, I'll get it myself or find a doctor that does.

Congrats on your son.. I'm just glad to see that some people did take awhile to conceive and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[TODouble2]

Not at all!

We finally got pregnant with ours on the 5th go 'round...2 miscarriages prior, as well.

Stick with it, bud!

Oh wow 5 IVF cycles. Ok so you see where I'm coming from here. Thanks for chiming in man and congrats to you as well.

 

[TODouble2]

Is it possible that she has problems with her eggs? Perhaps you have a case here where both of you have fertility problems?



My sister in law tried IVF 3x and they all failed too. It was she that had issues and not him as far as I know. They finally adopted and then about 1 year later they conceived a baby naturally when they weren't even trying! Things can work out strange like that.

They've done every test possible on her as well to rule things out. It seems as if I'm the problem. The only thing that hasn't been done is genetic testing. This is something we will do before the next IN vitro, that is if I ever have at sperm!

The only other thing I can think of is her stress levels. She refuses to take a month or two off from doctors and just try to relax and focus on other things in life. There is no stopping her. It's been hard on her but she's not in a good place mentally at all, which I know can also be bad.

 

[tenny]

maybe its just "not in the cards"......i think forcing it
is the issue.....conception should not be forced or
fucked with by science....its thrived on its own for
millions of years...

my opinion...

 

[Elvia1023]

maybe its just "not in the cards"......i think forcing it
is the issue.....conception should not be forced or
fucked with by science....its thrived on its own for
millions of years...

my opinion...

It's a complex and potentially very sensitive topic but I tend to agree with this. Obviously we take hormones and they negatively effect things so take hormones to combat that issue and hopefully have a baby. Take all the clomid, hcg and hmg you want and hopefully it works. But I have heard about couples going through 10 miscarriages and I can't help but think why not adopt as there are many children in need of good parents. Obviously I understand why couple try and try and it must be hard to know when to stop. It must be a horrible thing to have to go through.

Obviously OP disregard my post as it has nothing to do with your situation (yet). I would say though it sounds like you need to do what you have planned and your wife to have a break (as you know). Then just see what happens over time. Forcing it and all the stress is never going to be a good thing but it's harder said than done.

 

[bananas007]

Oh wow 5 IVF cycles. Ok so you see where I'm coming from here. Thanks for chiming in man and congrats to you as well.

Bro,

can you pm a relatively big city that is near you and I can try to find a good fertility urologist for you. If you are in chicago, or can travel to chicago, I can give you one of the best male fertility doc there is. He does clomid and or HMG and he is at a university center so takes all commercial insurances.

As mentioned before HCG and clomid togather is kinda weird. IF they understood the pathway, it would not be prescribed. So he is just sorta winging it.

 

[maldorf]

It's a complex and potentially very sensitive topic but I tend to agree with this. Obviously we take hormones and they negatively effect things so take hormones to combat that issue and hopefully have a baby. Take all the clomid, hcg and hmg you want and hopefully it works. But I have heard about couples going through 10 miscarriages and I can't help but think why not adopt as there are many children in need of good parents. Obviously I understand why couple try and try and it must be hard to know when to stop. It must be a horrible thing to have to go through.

Obviously OP disregard my post as it has nothing to do with your situation (yet). I would say though it sounds like you need to do what you have planned and your wife to have a break (as you know). Then just see what happens over time. Forcing it and all the stress is never going to be a good thing but it's harder said than done.

Well, like I said earlier, my sister in law finally conceived a baby girl after years of seeing fertility docs and 3 IVF tries. They adopted and then a year later BAM, a baby. They had given up on having a baby and the whole thing was a huge surprise. So they weren't even trying to get pregnant. It just happened. The pregnancy went great and the baby was born full term and very healthy.

 

[Elvia1023]

Well, like I said earlier, my sister in law finally conceived a baby girl after years of seeing fertility docs and 3 IVF tries. They adopted and then a year later BAM, a baby. They had given up on having a baby and the whole thing was a huge surprise. So they weren't even trying to get pregnant. It just happened. The pregnancy went great and the baby was born full term and very healthy.

That's great news. I think for couples who struggle to have kids what your sister in law done is perfect. I should add I am not against using science to have a baby at all but I meant more when it starts being over the top. It's sad but when I hear about women having miscarriages approx 5 times (some late in their pregnancy) I think it is almost unfair to keep trying and trying. There has to be a point were you let nature take it's course.

 

[mass3000]

I have three children from earlier cycles, but now that I've been on up to 10 years without a significant break (more than 4 weeks). But in the past two years I've been off 4 times with Windows of 12-28 weeks, I was able to produce but my wife has an issue so it related to a 4mo fetal demise! Pretty fucked up, I followed up this last time with the old school protocol 45 days (30 days clo @100mg, 45 days tamox@40mg, 20days hcg @ 1200-1500iu). Then I ran 1200iu three times a week for an additional 2 mo. still nothing but my sperm count came up over the 20mil mark... Hope this helps

 

[Thappy]

I had much the same issues until i came off completely. I tried 5 or 6 times with out coming off test various protocols.

My protocol was

stopped test

3 weeks after stopping test

1500iu hcg eod for 30 days

36iu eod of HMG for next 6 days

then 2 days after that

started clomid and nolva for 6 weeks

clomid 100/100/50/50/25/25 Nolva 40/40/20/20/10/10

My sperm count was at 0 at the start

After HCG it was 15000

after hmg and the 6 weeks of clomid and nolva it was 110 million got my mrs pregnant after 2 months prior pct. she did ovulation tracking as well and worked out she wasnt ovulating regulary so she had clomid too.

I had no libido and had to use viagra and cialis but got the job done. Now back on trt.

It can be done

 

[RDS]

3 grams of taurine a day

Dante why the taurine?

 

[TODouble2]

maybe its just "not in the cards"......i think forcing it

is the issue.....conception should not be forced or

fucked with by science....its thrived on its own for

millions of years...



my opinion...

And the human body thrived on its own for millions of years without supplementing with steroids the way we all do. But that's ok right? And there's so many people having trouble getting pregnant who haven't used steroids as well. There are so many issues that could be stopping people from conceiving. I think these doctors do an amazing thing for those people by making it possible for them.

There's the answer all along though, I should just give up on trying.

 

[dcbliever]

How much do these fertility doc's and IVF cost? That's all out of pocket isn't it?

I have heard the HMG is expensive too.

 

[mike036]

How much do these fertility doc's and IVF cost? That's all out of pocket isn't it?

I have heard the HMG is expensive too.

My insurance wouldn't cover the visit but covered the first month of medication .me and my wife paid $500 for the visit .our insurance covered the lab testing fees,well most of them anyway .i know the hmg was very expensive ,I was only prescribed that for 1 month so insurance paid it .i was prescribed 10,000ius/week hcg split into 3 shots and 75ius hmg on Monday and Friday for 4 weeks .the hcg was costing me about $110 for 10,000iu bottles of pregnyl from an American pharmacy .after a couple of weeks of spending my hard earned money I went with board sponsors for my hcg