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for the guys that dont compete..nor have the desire to

palumbus1217

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why take anything besides test?..well excuse me I can understand a low dose AI for gyno/prostate protection. I will be the first to admit I am young and have made mistakes in the past..using tren every go around...fairly good doses of orals...thinking they were the secret. In the end i was i guess you could say.."satisfied" with the physical results..but when it came to blood tests all it did was give me a cholosterol in the shitter and a feeling of being a fucking dickhead. After talking to a guy i know he told me test was all that was necessary. I said bullshit in the back of my head at first ill admit it. But seeing how bad my bloodwork was on compounds XY and Z (other than test)..i wasnt willing to go into a freefall like that again. So i gave it a try and now im stronger than i was only on test than when i was taking 2 or more compounds at the same time..also weekly mg for mg I am on less than what i was before as well. Then I though about it even more..for instance deca or eq...i see no reason to take it. They both build muscle..just like test onlything extra i can see someone getting out of taking em is extra potential heal risks. This is just my opinion anyways..i dont post much just thought it was worth a shot as i think it seems debatable..thanks anyway.
 

PHIL HERNON

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Nice

why take anything besides test?..well excuse me I can understand a low dose AI for gyno/prostate protection. I will be the first to admit I am young and have made mistakes in the past..using tren every go around...fairly good doses of orals...thinking they were the secret. In the end i was i guess you could say.."satisfied" with the physical results..but when it came to blood tests all it did was give me a cholosterol in the shitter and a feeling of being a fucking dickhead. After talking to a guy i know he told me test was all that was necessary. I said bullshit in the back of my head at first ill admit it. But seeing how bad my bloodwork was on compounds XY and Z (other than test)..i wasnt willing to go into a freefall like that again. So i gave it a try and now im stronger than i was only on test than when i was taking 2 or more compounds at the same time..also weekly mg for mg I am on less than what i was before as well. Then I though about it even more..for instance deca or eq...i see no reason to take it. They both build muscle..just like test onlything extra i can see someone getting out of taking em is extra potential heal risks. This is just my opinion anyways..i dont post much just thought it was worth a shot as i think it seems debatable..thanks anyway.
Awesome post man
 

1bigmofo

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why take anything besides test?..well excuse me I can understand a low dose AI for gyno/prostate protection. I will be the first to admit I am young and have made mistakes in the past..using tren every go around...fairly good doses of orals...thinking they were the secret. In the end i was i guess you could say.."satisfied" with the physical results..but when it came to blood tests all it did was give me a cholosterol in the shitter and a feeling of being a fucking dickhead. After talking to a guy i know he told me test was all that was necessary. I said bullshit in the back of my head at first ill admit it. But seeing how bad my bloodwork was on compounds XY and Z (other than test)..i wasnt willing to go into a freefall like that again. So i gave it a try and now im stronger than i was only on test than when i was taking 2 or more compounds at the same time..also weekly mg for mg I am on less than what i was before as well. Then I though about it even more..for instance deca or eq...i see no reason to take it. They both build muscle..just like test onlything extra i can see someone getting out of taking em is extra potential heal risks. This is just my opinion anyways..i dont post much just thought it was worth a shot as i think it seems debatable..thanks anyway.
I agree. I love test. For a looong time i was just doing 300-500 mg. once in a while, i'll jump back on a few "goodies" just to try and add a lil more size and strength. I would continue with just test but i always get bad side affects, very red face, water retention, high bp even with an anti e. now i just get a shot of 250 mg. 1x every 14 days and i have a strong gel from my physician. Tell ya what, it works great!!! Diet is the key!!!
 

PHIL HERNON

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Yes

I agree. I love test. For a looong time i was just doing 300-500 mg. once in a while, i'll jump back on a few "goodies" just to try and add a lil more size and strength. I would continue with just test but i always get bad side affects, very red face, water retention, high bp even with an anti e. now i just get a shot of 250 mg. 1x every 14 days and i have a strong gel from my physician. Tell ya what, it works great!!! Diet is the key!!!
In all honesty, I truly believe that if you manipulate your diet enough, you can get the same results with 30% less AAS.
 

LATS

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i know two guys in europe.. masters competitors.. one does just test period.. even prepping for a show.. he does add in anti e and proscar to his cycles and looks great.. another said he cant do anything over 300-400 of test without suffering sides (even with antie and prostate protection..) he does tren and eq with low dose test even when not competing..

it is amazing the different reactions the body has to compounds.. but being a tight ass i have to look at cost "effectiveness".. look at the cost of eq.. good compound.. but to get great results the dosage has to go fairly high for most people.. the plus is that you dont really need anti e or prostate protection since eq does not convert to dht readily..

look at tren.. best stuff out there in my opinion.. but can be a nightmare with sides for some.. bp goes ape.. and even though the tren does not convert to estro or dht the high androgen base makes it hard on the prostate none the less.. and the insomnia is awful for some even at low dose..

now just plain test.. one does need to use anti e with it.. so that adds to the cost.. but most anti e is pretty inexpensive.. now add in proscar. again pretty inexpensive.. so yes, test for most is enough period.. add in anti e and prostate protection and you still have a pretty cost effective cycle..

even a competitor in russia (one of their top amatuers) said that he used nothing the past two russian championships but test.. why? well he had a boatload of omnas.. thousands.. yes thousands.. and did not want to waste them lol.. so he took nothing but test and got his doc to prescribe a anti e (aromasin).. was shredded and huge.. (by the way he paid a dollar usa for each amp.. lucky bastard)..

but yes.. not competing take test and be happy.. competing? maybe add tren in before a show.. that would be it.. now i am rambling..:eek:
 

mindmuscle

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In all honesty, I truly believe that if you manipulate your diet enough, you can get the same results with 30% less AAS.
Phil, How about those of us over 40. Do you still feel that is possible. or would the addition of the Test be more so due to lowering test levels as you age?
 

LATS

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YES.. I AGREE WITH PHILS LAST STATEMENT.. too many use more gear to make up for their lack of diet.. and training.. make those "perfect" and you would be surprised how little you can get by with.. neil hill said the same thing a while back.. he is considered one of the best trainers out there by many.. he said his first order of biz was to adjust their diet and lower their dosage.. think about it..
 

almard

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i know two guys in europe.. masters competitors.. one does just test period.. even prepping for a show.. he does add in anti e and proscar to his cycles and looks great.. another said he cant do anything over 300-400 of test without suffering sides (even with antie and prostate protection..) he does tren and eq with low dose test even when not competing..

it is amazing the different reactions the body has to compounds.. but being a tight ass i have to look at cost "effectiveness".. look at the cost of eq.. good compound.. but to get great results the dosage has to go fairly high for most people.. the plus is that you dont really need anti e or prostate protection since eq does not convert to dht readily..

look at tren.. best stuff out there in my opinion.. but can be a nightmare with sides for some.. bp goes ape.. and even though the tren does not convert to estro or dht the high androgen base makes it hard on the prostate none the less.. and the insomnia is awful for some even at low dose..

now just plain test.. one does need to use anti e with it.. so that adds to the cost.. but most anti e is pretty inexpensive.. now add in proscar. again pretty inexpensive.. so yes, test for most is enough period.. add in anti e and prostate protection and you still have a pretty cost effective cycle..

even a competitor in russia (one of their top amatuers) said that he used nothing the past two russian championships but test.. why? well he had a boatload of omnas.. thousands.. yes thousands.. and did not want to waste them lol.. so he took nothing but test and got his doc to prescribe a anti e (aromasin).. was shredded and huge.. (by the way he paid a dollar usa for each amp.. lucky bastard)..

but yes.. not competing take test and be happy.. competing? maybe add tren in before a show.. that would be it.. now i am rambling..:eek:
Yes, I agree but using other AAS than Test can give you just diffrent looks....Also, If you will use Test ONly(+750 mg) , you will be more porn to injury, as it weak the tendor.....
 

infinity1

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why take anything besides test?..well excuse me I can understand a low dose AI for gyno/prostate protection. I will be the first to admit I am young and have made mistakes in the past..using tren every go around...fairly good doses of orals...thinking they were the secret. In the end i was i guess you could say.."satisfied" with the physical results..but when it came to blood tests all it did was give me a cholosterol in the shitter and a feeling of being a fucking dickhead. After talking to a guy i know he told me test was all that was necessary. I said bullshit in the back of my head at first ill admit it. But seeing how bad my bloodwork was on compounds XY and Z (other than test)..i wasnt willing to go into a freefall like that again. So i gave it a try and now im stronger than i was only on test than when i was taking 2 or more compounds at the same time..also weekly mg for mg I am on less than what i was before as well. Then I though about it even more..for instance deca or eq...i see no reason to take it. They both build muscle..just like test onlything extra i can see someone getting out of taking em is extra potential heal risks. This is just my opinion anyways..i dont post much just thought it was worth a shot as i think it seems debatable..thanks anyway.
That was a great post. I too do not compete and have used aas on and off for more years that I would like to admit to. Very recently I have lowered my dosages and use test only. I feel better, my blood panels are better and overall, I am very happy with where I am without all of the other risks associated with the higher dosages and multiple compounds.

Also not spending nearly as much money as before.

Although there are a number of guys on here with incredible physiques who compete, it amazes me how many other guys post their 1 and 2 gram multi compound per week cycles with peptides, growth and insulin and a diet with a friggin shake every 2.2578 hours and dont compete. Just a complete disregard for their health and well being,with no real benefit other that looking good at the beach. And in some cases these guys dont even look that good imo. Im not one to judge, but I am glad that I have seen the light and changed the things that I used to do. I feel much better for it.
 

concreteguy

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i know two guys in europe.. masters competitors.. one does just test period.. even prepping for a show.. he does add in anti e and proscar to his cycles and looks great.. another said he cant do anything over 300-400 of test without suffering sides (even with antie and prostate protection..) he does tren and eq with low dose test even when not competing..

it is amazing the different reactions the body has to compounds.. but being a tight ass i have to look at cost "effectiveness".. look at the cost of eq.. good compound.. but to get great results the dosage has to go fairly high for most people.. the plus is that you dont really need anti e or prostate protection since eq does not convert to dht readily..

look at tren.. best stuff out there in my opinion.. but can be a nightmare with sides for some.. bp goes ape.. and even though the tren does not convert to estro or dht the high androgen base makes it hard on the prostate none the less.. and the insomnia is awful for some even at low dose..

now just plain test.. one does need to use anti e with it.. so that adds to the cost.. but most anti e is pretty inexpensive.. now add in proscar. again pretty inexpensive.. so yes, test for most is enough period.. add in anti e and prostate protection and you still have a pretty cost effective cycle..

even a competitor in russia (one of their top amatuers) said that he used nothing the past two russian championships but test.. why? well he had a boatload of omnas.. thousands.. yes thousands.. and did not want to waste them lol.. so he took nothing but test and got his doc to prescribe a anti e (aromasin).. was shredded and huge.. (by the way he paid a dollar usa for each amp.. lucky bastard)..

but yes.. not competing take test and be happy.. competing? maybe add tren in before a show.. that would be it.. now i am rambling..:eek:
I think you should spend more time "rambling".:D
 

LATS

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ALMARD.. i do agree that some compounds do give a certain " look".. tren as a example.. but for most who dont compete test is really that is all that is needed.. i have addressed the tendon weakening with dave palumbo once and he said that he did not think it was so.. he said all steroids build collegen to a certain extent.. he thought that since test gives the best strength gains (which leaves the tendon vulnerable ) that it was being blamed unfairly.. so who knows..??

my question is test really the safest compound to use to those who do not compete? hypothetically wouldnt eq (just a example) be safer ? little conversion to estro.. no to dht.. and at higher dosage equal to test usage (say 750 mgs) it would bring good hard gains albeit slower.. side would be less than test.. and the need for anti e and prosate protection would be not needed.. again strictly for debate.. that is why these compounds were produced in the first place.. test is great but once ya get over a certain dosage then other meds need to be taken to off set the sides..

so wouldnt say 250 mgs of test and 600-800 of eq be a safer bet for a none competing lifter.. again strictly for debate..
 

PHIL HERNON

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Well

Yes, I agree but using other AAS than Test can give you just diffrent looks....Also, If you will use Test ONly(+750 mg) , you will be more porn to injury, as it weak the tendor.....
Different looks? Thats diet my man......do a bit more rsearch..you would be amazed how the body looks when water depleted......
 

PHIL HERNON

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BUT

I agree wit my clients using different compounds like LATS said......where it is legal of course........bit if you gotta run test, winny, var, gh, drol, EQ, slin, and eat every 30 minutes with dextrose tabs near by then maybe you dont have the genetics for the sport? Just sayin.....
 

VTliftVT

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Different looks? Thats diet my man......do a bit more rsearch..you would be amazed how the body looks when water depleted......
Which is where something like LBA's with glycerol to help keep the cells hydrated can help tremendously...along with an appropriate amount water and sodium intake daily.

But what does it matter, I haven't improved anyway :D
 

LATS

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i do agree the higher the androgens the different the look.. tren is given credit for this but it really is the higher anabolic to androgenic ration (500 to 500) where as test is 100 to 100.. again is it the tren? or is it the higher androgen ratio in the body that could be achieved with test in higher dosages? that being said you can take all the tren ya want and if you are a fat freddy it will not have the desired affect..
 

LATS

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AND TO PHILS LAST POST... AMEN..
 

PHIL HERNON

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Yes but

Which is where something like LBA's with glycerol to help keep the cells hydrated can help tremendously...along with an appropriate amount water and sodium intake daily.

But what does it matter, I haven't improved anyway :D
Just because you havent improved and even digressed a tad, doesnt mean you could not someday help others improve.......
 

concreteguy

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ALMARD.. i do agree that some compounds do give a certain " look".. tren as a example.. but for most who dont compete test is really that is all that is needed.. i have addressed the tendon weakening with dave palumbo once and he said that he did not think it was so.. he said all steroids build collegen to a certain extent.. he thought that since test gives the best strength gains (which leaves the tendon vulnerable ) that it was being blamed unfairly.. so who knows..??

my question is test really the safest compound to use to those who do not compete? hypothetically wouldnt eq (just a example) be safer ? little conversion to estro.. no to dht.. and at higher dosage equal to test usage (say 750 mgs) it would bring good hard gains albeit slower.. side would be less than test.. and the need for anti e and prosate protection would be not needed.. again strictly for debate.. that is why these compounds were produced in the first place.. test is great but once ya get over a certain dosage then other meds need to be taken to off set the sides..

so wouldnt say 250 mgs of test and 600-800 of eq be a safer bet for a none competing lifter.. again strictly for debate..
I had no idea this stuff had such good sides to it. Would you believe me if I told you a guy at my gym is doing 3000 mgs a week of this stuff and is HUGE!!! I keep waiting to hear he has die or something. Maybe he will live after all. He is one big MOFO and says thats all he does. His diet is on point as well as he trains hard too.
 
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LATS

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CONCRETE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE TEST OR THE EQ?..
 

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