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GH belly or steroid belly?

gooey

Featured Member/Kilo Klub
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since the dawn of GH and the over usage of Gh and AAS I am curious what really causes this internal intestinal growth? Intestines small, large and even colon are smooth muscle tissue right? We know of 3 types in the human body cardiac, smooth, and skeletal, but if both skeletal and cardiac muscle tissue can see growth from tension + calorie intake + recuperation + and hormone increased protein synthesis, why does everyone blame GH the culprit for the larger distended midsections many of the top pros have today even dieted down. Smooth muscle contrasts through a process of paristalsis (SP) when food is passed down through the intestines so u have tension, u have hormone from AAS or GH, maybe even insulin. Im curious if GH is the lone culprit or the conjunction of both or more drugs? Im not a fan at all of the distended belly, even dex, and victor have it, in both dvd's from the Titans they are relaxed and it hangs out yummy. Yes I did say dex, what r your guys' thoughts on this, what do u think it should be attributed to?
gooey
 
There are no androgen receptors in the internal organs. Since the means by which steroids work are through the androgen receptor I doubt steroids would contribute too much to intestinal enlargement. GH however causes growth in all tissues. I also think that one thing that people forget is just how much bodybuilders eat!!! Over time the stomach gets stretched out just from the amount of freaking food. This would be the case in anyone who ate as much as a pro bodybuilder. I don't care if you're a janitor, an astronaut, or a stripper, when you eat 6-8 meals per day with large amounts of food per meal, you're gonna get a big gut.

I don't think gh can be the sole culprit because when you see those giant freaks that have that disease where they produce massive amounts of gh, they are usually just tall, neanderthalic, and thin. I haven't seen any of those people with huge distended guts.

So I have written. This is the gospel of BBJ.
 
more IGF-1 receptors in the intestines

I think I read somewhere about the majority of IGF-1 receptors were located in the intestines and if I am not mistaken adminestering supraphysiological amounts of gh equates to producing more IGF-1 in the system. Again, this all to the best of my knowledge.
 
And its said that because of those receptors IGF1 can cause huge bloated gut. And to minimize that you inject farthest away from the gut as you can.
Such as arms/delts. I didnt have any bloat from using 24 days @ 33-50mcg ED.
 
BigBoyJ said:
There are no androgen receptors in the internal organs. Since the means by which steroids work are through the androgen receptor I doubt steroids would contribute too much to intestinal enlargement. GH however causes growth in all tissues. I also think that one thing that people forget is just how much bodybuilders eat!!! Over time the stomach gets stretched out just from the amount of freaking food. This would be the case in anyone who ate as much as a pro bodybuilder. I don't care if you're a janitor, an astronaut, or a stripper, when you eat 6-8 meals per day with large amounts of food per meal, you're gonna get a big gut.

I don't think gh can be the sole culprit because when you see those giant freaks that have that disease where they produce massive amounts of gh, they are usually just tall, neanderthalic, and thin. I haven't seen any of those people with huge distended guts.

So I have written. This is the gospel of BBJ.


u stated that internal organs do not have androgen receptor sites, but intestines and the heart are both muscle and have receptor sites for increased protein synthesis, why would or how wouldnt a an androgen receptor site not attach here (just curious cause I dont know no offense) if the heart muscle can grow and so can skeletal muscle why not smooth muscle tissue? I believe I also heard the IGF-1 receptor thing too, I think specifically its called mIGF-1, m = muscular attaches to it and creates growth. Im sure massive amounts of food is also an variable, but what about insulin I think I remem reading something about the relationship with insulin and the distended belly? Not sure though, thanx guyz for your replies, just curious how this develops.
gooey
 
there aren't androgen receptors in your organs because test has nothing to do with your organs...

test controls your sex organs, masculine features, and muscle....GH and IGF control your total growth
 
The protein systhesis in heart muscle certainly is not for hypertrophy, as it is in skeletal muscles-in which the action is accelerated by androgen receptors
and testosterone. The smooth muscle and heart muscle were not designed for hypertrophy in the way skeletal (type II) muscles are.
 
now this seems explainable

MikeS said:
The protein systhesis in heart muscle certainly is not for hypertrophy, as it is in skeletal muscles-in which the action is accelerated by androgen receptors
and testosterone. The smooth muscle and heart muscle were not designed for hypertrophy in the way skeletal (type II) muscles are.



then how does the heart grow? Guess u have to analyze the growth process of muscle and then see if it associates with growth in different types of muscle tissue. The obvious culprit for any tissue anabolism is IGF-1 this is the final product that stimulates growth in tissues.


Androgen Receptors Mediate Hypertrophy in Cardiac Myocytes
James D. Marsh, MD; Michael H. Lehmann, MD; Rebecca H. Ritchie, PhD; Judith K. Gwathmey, VMD, PhD; Glenn E. Green, MD; ; Rick J. Schiebinger, MD

From the Program in Molecular and Cellular Cardiology, Departments of Medicine and Otolaryngology, Harper Hospital, Detroit, Mich; the VA Medical Center, Boston University Medical Center, Boston, Mass (J.K.G.); and the Arrhythmia Center/Sinai Hospital (M.H.L.) and Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, Mich (J.D.M.).

Correspondence to James D. Marsh, MD, Wayne State University School of Medicine, 421 E Canfield Ave, Detroit, MI 48201. E-mail [email protected]


Abstract

Background—The role of androgens in producing cardiac hypertrophy by direct action on cardiac myocytes is uncertain. Accordingly, we tested the hypothesis that cardiac myocytes in adult men and women express an androgen receptor gene and that myocytes respond to androgens by a hypertrophic response.

Methods and Results—We used reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction methods to demonstrate androgen receptor transcripts in multiple tissues and [3H]phenylalanine incorporation and atrial natriuretic peptide secretion as markers of hypertrophy in cultured rat myocytes. Messenger RNA encoding androgen receptors was detected in myocytes of male and female adult rats, neonatal rat myocytes, rat heart, dog heart, and infant and adult human heart. Both testosterone and dihydrotestosterone produced a robust receptor-specific hypertrophic response in myocytes, determined by indices of protein synthesis and atrial natriuretic peptide secretion.

Conclusions—Androgen receptors are present in cardiac myocytes from multiple species, including normal men and women, in a context that permits androgens to modulate the cardiac phenotype and produce hypertrophy by direct, receptor-specific mechanisms. There are clinical implications for therapeutic or illicit use of androgens in humans.

found this one too

Immunohistochemical localization of androgen receptors with mono- and polyclonal antibodies to androgen receptor
H Takeda, G Chodak, S Mutchnik, T Nakamoto, and C Chang


Rat, human, and mouse tissues were stained immunohistochemically using mono- and polyclonal androgen receptor antibodies. Monoclonal antibodies were raised in rats and used to stain human and mouse tissues; polyclonal antibodies were raised in rabbits and used to stain rat tissues. Frozen tissue sections were incubated with the appropriate androgen receptor antibody and staining was completed by the indirect avidin-biotin peroxidase method. A comprehensive survey of rat and mouse tissues was performed. Antibody staining was found exclusively in the nucleus of certain specific cell types, suggesting that the androgen receptor is a nuclear protein. All male sexual organs in the rat showed strong positive nuclear staining for androgen receptor. Weaker positive reactions were seen in kidney, liver, adrenal cortex and pituitary gland. Furthermore, positive staining for androgen receptor was exhibited in skeletal, cardiac and smooth muscle cells, and central nervous tissue. Female reproductive organs also contained androgen receptor-positive cells. The spleen was found to be the only organ examined which did not stain for androgen receptor. The monoclonal antibody could also demonstrate androgen receptor-positive cells in a human prostatic cancer and in a prostate with benign hyperplasia. These data demonstrate the use of antibodies in revealing cellular/subcellular distribution of androgen receptor in target tissues.
 
Damn, I just found that whole study. This is news to me. It's very interesting stuff. Here's the link for anyone else who wants to read it.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/98/3/256

So, I guess now we know that androgens DO cause a direct hypertrophic response in cardiac tissue. Hmmm, looks like we have a new side effect to worry about.
 
BBJ, Gooey-

No shit, interesting stuff.
Thats what makes this board rock!

I probably meant to say that hypertrophy in the heart was not extreme in potential like it is in Type II skeletal muscle. Because we know that some cardiac muscle hypertrophy (enlarged heart) is possible.
 
All I know is when I do igf-1 or GH into my belly, it gets HUGE. I don't get fatter, just my stomach starts looking like I'm about to give birth. If I stay away from belly shots & do them in the delts/arms etc, that problem goes away almost entirely. There's definitely something in the stomach that grows in the presence if igf-1.
 
I found this during a search too....

here is a study on AAS and adverse side effects, take a gander.. its long so sorry
gooey



[PDF] Adverse effects of anabolic androgenic steroids on the ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... steroid can be reabsorbed from the gastrointestinal tract ... a high af›nity for
glucocorticoid receptors and in ... hormone and IGF-1, are taken for the same purpose ...
ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/ laa/biola/vk/karila/adversee.pdf - Similar pages

**broken link removed**
 
I've seen it mentioned that GH causes water retention in the intestines.

Read in an interview with Jim Quinn in MMI and he said GH made him hold so much water in the intestines that he had to seek medical treatment.
 
Holy crap, could it be that the government actually IS trying to protect people from steroids?
 
BigBoyJ said:
Holy crap, could it be that the government actually IS trying to protect people from steroids?

Umm, - no. :D
 
u have to take into consideration.....

these are superphysiological levels of testosterone in the human system, and of course there is a risk to taking any drug, but once again these are always relative to each person. Why is it theres always a guy that uses maybe 200 mgs a week of something and grows like a weed and has always used that level before. Why is it there are people who smoke, drink to a very serious excessive amount where is would and should cause some health issues but it does not? There is always consequences to every decision, I just put these on here so people know that there is can be a health consequence to think about. This is why I agree with phil on many issues of drugs because people can become dependent on the drug, and like our society is doing right now blaming and associating the drug that made the man. No, the man makes the man, there will never be another ronnie coleman, or barry bonds, these individuals were very gifted in the sport/activities they chose and they made the decision to supplement to make themselves better. Bottom line, live life, enjoy the time your are given and make the best of it, u make the decisions in youe life there are consequences to every decision u have to make the decision based on what is best for u and your loved ones
gooey ;)
 
THAT IS

gooey said:
these are superphysiological levels of testosterone in the human system, and of course there is a risk to taking any drug, but once again these are always relative to each person. Why is it theres always a guy that uses maybe 200 mgs a week of something and grows like a weed and has always used that level before. Why is it there are people who smoke, drink to a very serious excessive amount where is would and should cause some health issues but it does not? There is always consequences to every decision, I just put these on here so people know that there is can be a health consequence to think about. This is why I agree with phil on many issues of drugs because people can become dependent on the drug, and like our society is doing right now blaming and associating the drug that made the man. No, the man makes the man, there will never be another ronnie coleman, or barry bonds, these individuals were very gifted in the sport/activities they chose and they made the decision to supplement to make themselves better. Bottom line, live life, enjoy the time your are given and make the best of it, u make the decisions in youe life there are consequences to every decision u have to make the decision based on what is best for u and your loved ones
gooey ;)

THE BOTTOM LINE
 
OK since im too lazy to read through and decipher all those studies, maybe someone can sum up a conclusion for me as to what the main causes that are responsible for the huge gut believed to be GH gut?
 

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