HCG Debate

[DrS]

Well this is an age old debate , most of the old school seem to think using HCG during is the best way. I personally think using it in your PCT is the best ue of HCG. This is because use of HCG cannot completely counter the suppression caused by AAS so for the testes it is simply cosmetic, but it is said that HCG helps the body recover faster while using during, so that could be beneficial.

So I wanted to hear the everyone's opinion , whether the use it during or after and why.....

 

[Flex2019]

There have been a lot of threads very recently on HCG usage. I would do a search.

That said, I prefer to use it throughout the cycle. 500iu 2x/wk or every 3rd day work great for me. Keeps the boys plump and helps my sex drive quite a bit. Also helps me avoid the "burnt out" feeling I otherwise get toward the end of a longer cycle.

 

[ojs]

I've experimented with so many different ways of using HCG that I don't remember half of them. But for me, 500iu e5d while on cycle as soon as I see the start of shrinkage has worked the best for me. So that's what I've stuck with over the last few years. It just works for me. So I'm good.

 

[Mike Hunt]

have any of you guys used a cycle with OUT the hcg throughout? can you tell a huge difference if so?

also are you guys shooting IM ?

 

[Flex2019]

have any of you guys used a cycle with OUT the hcg throughout? can you tell a huge difference if so?

also are you guys shooting IM ?

My first couple of cycles didn't include HCG. Yes, I can tell the difference. SQ only for me.

 

[Ehren]

If this is the DrS from another board, I'd really enjoy hearing your take on HcG in PCT.

HcG every 5 days, 500mcg, SQ for me, on cycle. I have to use a little AI with it though, it bloats me up fast if not. I also use Clomid 50mg eod for the last several weeks of the cycle. This combo makes a huge difference in coming off and sex drive while on.

I'm going to use HcG for a couple weeks post cycle this time and see how it goes. It basically works out to a couple extra shots after the cycle. If it keeps me suppressed for a couple more weeks, oh well. Live and learn. But I have a feeling it may do some good.

My PCT's are long. That 21 days BS is just that. Blood work for me has shown that it's necessary to go longer.

 

[DrS]

There have been a lot of threads very recently on HCG usage. I would do a search.

That said, I prefer to use it throughout the cycle. 500iu 2x/wk or every 3rd day work great for me. Keeps the boys plump and helps my sex drive quite a bit. Also helps me avoid the "burnt out" feeling I otherwise get toward the end of a longer cycle.

I am not looking for info in hCG , I have quite a bit, it is more of the side of tendencies of my fellow bros. I have been doing a lot of research to prove or disprove hCG 's use during cycle ..... I appreciate the response though and the additional info also , about whether you see a difference without it... My main point is since it cannot directly combat the suppression done by the anabolics , is it possible to slightly lose the tug o war but hold its ground until the anabolics leave , therefore it allows for a quicker transition back to a normal HPTA...

 

[DrS]

I hate getting all technical , I prefer simple but hCG mimics LH , LH stimulates the Leydig's cells , which causes the testes to make natural test. It is especially important to get your body back to homeostasis, after a cycle a overflow of estrogen can cause a multitude of issues. Also , with hCG , the kick start of endogenous test , will make sure that other issues don't cause damage to your hard earned work ( cortisol ) .

My issue with hCG during cycle is it doesn't maintain your normal baseline of natural test, the suppression is to pronounced to do so. It does have other benefits , including the potatoes stay the same size, but it is some what an illusion , and Flex made a good point that it does help with sex drive during long cycles for most people. The down size is extended use can desensitize the Leydig's cells , which would hurt your chances at a fast recovery , which also can cause you to lose all your gains, rendering the cycle a wash. This is only an issue at long term use or high doses.

I want finally put to bed the debate one way or another and get a definitive answer of which is more productive , because in the end the only thing that matters is keeping gains, PERIOD.

Hope some others have an opinion so I may hear all the views this great board has.

If this is the DrS from another board, I'd really enjoy hearing your take on HcG in PCT.

HcG every 5 days, 500mcg, SQ for me, on cycle. I have to use a little AI with it though, it bloats me up fast if not. I also use Clomid 50mg eod for the last several weeks of the cycle. This combo makes a huge difference in coming off and sex drive while on.

I'm going to use HcG for a couple weeks post cycle this time and see how it goes. It basically works out to a couple extra shots after the cycle. If it keeps me suppressed for a couple more weeks, oh well. Live and learn. But I have a feeling it may do some good.

My PCT's are long. That 21 days BS is just that. Blood work for me has shown that it's necessary to go longer.

 

[Thebigone]

I always thought hcg kept you shut down thats why you use it during cycle and when your done you start clomid to restore natty test. Im on hrt and use 500iu hcg 2x per week b/c I like the boys being more plump and will have an easier time trying to have a kid if I decide to come off gear one day. But I do know some guys who just run a month of hcg as their pct and thats it.

 

[lightofmyboner]

counteracting the suppression is actually exactly what HCG does. Your body compensates for AAS usage by essentially stopping the signal that tells the testes to do their job. HCG replaces that signal.

It doesn't counteract the suppression entirely, no, but it prevents testicular atrophy and the use of during the entirety of your cycle allows you to overcome the rate-limiting step (testicular atrophy) in restoring natty T levels.

 

[tenny]

ahhhhh

hcg....where to begin????

-hcg is (imo) grossly overrated
-hcg does NOT "keep you shut down"
but it is highley estradiolal, hence (prego urine)
so essentially....by taking this (highley estradiol) substance
your body (the male body) is FORCED to start producing
testosterone.....even with the presence of high levels of
synthetic test already in the system
-estradiol is (coinicidently) NEEDED by the male body
for a heathly reproductive system
this can and will also WREAK HAVOC on it at the same time

i do agree with small amounts on cycle (with longer cycles)
but NEVER in the absence of synthetic testosterone

its like anything alse.....it will work differently on everybody
some people cant take this and some cant take that
same goes for HCG!!!

i believe.......that "FORCING" the body to produce is too extreme
(at least for me) and that this could lead to problems with endocrine
(as it has for me)......mix this with clomid and you have a recipe
for disaster....(which dont even get me started on clomid)
ex....how long can you continue to force something before
it says....fuck you!!! not ANYMORE!!!!.....get the point???

hcg does have a place, but.....should it be used for all pct????
HELL NO!!!!.....doesnt need to be
i think your body should be presuaded to start producing...natually
because it WANTS to and when its ready to, on its own
now sometimes presuaded a little harder than others, but....
you get the point.......and theres more than one way to do this

pct should be thought of (outside the box) its very individual
just like that of slin use (in a way).......i got my worst gyno flare up
EVER from HCG AFTER CYCLE....now tell me this was doing some good???
bull shit!!!

never AGAIN will i take HCG for PCT
or during any cycle under 12 weeks

these statements are NOT scientific (which i'm sure one of you assholes
will look it up and try to prove me wrong)
these statements are purely for my experience

take it or leave it

 

[Thebigone]

^^^ I didnt know it was so estrogenic. When im on 500mg test and an antiE and have everything in check(water,etc...) and then I add 500iu hcg 2x per week I dont notice any water increase or any other estrogenic sides. And im pretty prone to water retention when I even look at something that aromatizes. Maybe its b/c i only use 500iu 2x per week, maybe it the guys who blast the 2-3kiu every 4-5days who will get the estrogen surge.

 

[Kronis.]

^^^ I always figured HCG was really estrogenic.

I take 25mg aromasin with every HCG shot or i swear my nips start to itch.

 

[shovelhed82]

It's not so much that it produces estrogen, it's the extra test it produces aromatizes. If you're taking an AI regularly you won't have a problem.

 

[DrS]

Thanks

Thanks , this is what I was looking for, how it effects each individual and the practical use , and why. I have books upon books on the topic, but real world experience is what matters. I have had great response from hCG post cycle , while some say the response was counter-productive....

ahhhhh

hcg....where to begin????

-hcg is (imo) grossly overrated
-hcg does NOT "keep you shut down"
but it is highley estradiolal, hence (prego urine)
so essentially....by taking this (highley estradiol) substance
your body (the male body) is FORCED to start producing
testosterone.....even with the presence of high levels of
synthetic test already in the system
-estradiol is (coinicidently) NEEDED by the male body
for a heathly reproductive system
this can and will also WREAK HAVOC on it at the same time

i do agree with small amounts on cycle (with longer cycles)
but NEVER in the absence of synthetic testosterone

its like anything alse.....it will work differently on everybody
some people cant take this and some cant take that
same goes for HCG!!!

i believe.......that "FORCING" the body to produce is too extreme
(at least for me) and that this could lead to problems with endocrine
(as it has for me)......mix this with clomid and you have a recipe
for disaster....(which dont even get me started on clomid)
ex....how long can you continue to force something before
it says....fuck you!!! not ANYMORE!!!!.....get the point???

hcg does have a place, but.....should it be used for all pct????
HELL NO!!!!.....doesnt need to be
i think your body should be presuaded to start producing...natually
because it WANTS to and when its ready to, on its own
now sometimes presuaded a little harder than others, but....
you get the point.......and theres more than one way to do this

pct should be thought of (outside the box) its very individual
just like that of slin use (in a way).......i got my worst gyno flare up
EVER from HCG AFTER CYCLE....now tell me this was doing some good???
bull shit!!!

never AGAIN will i take HCG for PCT
or during any cycle under 12 weeks

these statements are NOT scientific (which i'm sure one of you assholes
will look it up and try to prove me wrong)
these statements are purely for my experience

take it or leave it

 

[DrS]

Well

This should only be when used during cycle , with PCT , the lack of Test would not lead to excess

^^^ I always figured HCG was really estrogenic.

I take 25mg aromasin with every HCG shot or i swear my nips start to itch.

 

[minister]

HCG every 4th day on cycle at 500 IUs works wonders for me, however I always do Masteron on every cycle also to balance estrogen levels, it works like a charm. No HCG during PCT. God bless you friends. Minister.

 

[DrS]

Well

I agree for the most part , my issue with this is the amount of hCG taken to help battle the suppression, depending on the dose and frequency of injection , and the length of time can defeat the purpose IF you desensitize the Leydig's cells. Typically , this does not happen at 250 mcg twice a week for less then 12 weeks , but all people are different and if you do step over the line it could be bad, and chances of rekindling nat test would be very hard..

counteracting the suppression is actually exactly what HCG does. Your body compensates for AAS usage by essentially stopping the signal that tells the testes to do their job. HCG replaces that signal.

It doesn't counteract the suppression entirely, no, but it prevents testicular atrophy and the use of during the entirety of your cycle allows you to overcome the rate-limiting step (testicular atrophy) in restoring natty T levels.

 

[wasp]

what about a guy on trt for life tenny, would ya say he should or should not do hcg

 

[tenny]

what about a guy on trt for life tenny, would ya say he should or should not do hcg

well this i have no comment on
because i have NO experience on the subject

but.......

off the top of my head......
i would say the only reason for HCG use
with someone on PERMANET TRT
would be for reproductive purposes (try to have kids)

no other reason i can think of