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Help needed incorporating insulin

Virtuous

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Hey Friends,

I have never used insulin, but I would like to begin leveraging it as I am working to gain ~15 lbs over the next 6 months, and would like to be as efficient as possible in that endeavor. I know there's a wealth of information here and across the web, but advice tends to circle back to pointing out that every person's protocol will be specific to their individual needs.

I have a general sense of how I will incorporate it into my protocol, but I would like feedback/critiques/suggestions.

I will list diet, training, and gear to give you a view of my current status.

First, let's get training out of the way:

I hit the gym daily. 4 of those days are heavy lifting days, the other 3 are typically cardio/mobility/core/feeder sets. I also do LISS post workout on my lifting days, as cardio is an important part of my health these days. My heavy lifting days tend to steer towards barbell work/heavy compounds, with accessory work tacked on at the end. I compete occasionally in powerlifting, so I am relatively strong.

I am right around 220lbs ~10% body fat. BF measures done professionally point to a lower bf%, but I suspect those are wrong.

Diet:

Carbs are currently on the lower end, but as I transition into a gaining phase I will up those. My targeted macros will be as follows:

  1. P: 400g (satiety and I love meat)
  2. C: 400g
  3. F: 100g
  4. kCal total: 4,100

I will titrate up the calories/carbs slowly as my weight creeps up.

Gear I'll be using:
  1. 50mg Proviron daily
  2. 500mg/week Testosterone (I am currently running a TRT dose)
  3. NPP 400mg/week
  4. HGH: 10iu daily, typically ~7 iu upon waking (which is about an hour pre workout) and another 3iu later in the day
  5. I will also be throwing in runs of PEG-MGF and IGF1-LR3, but I do not think those will have a broad impact compared to the rest of my intake.
Prospective insulin use:

I am thinking I'll take 10iu Humalog or HumalinR preworkout with my 7iu hgh, BCAA/EAAs, creatine, and 25g dextrose, with another 25g dextrose sipped throughout the workout. I train first thing in the morning, fasted, so I think 50g carbs added will provide the substrate required to avoid hyperglycemia. I will monitor blood glucose to dial in the dose. I do not want to leverage dextrose heavily, as I like getting most of my carbs from food, but I am open to increasing periworkout carb intake as recommended.

Post workout would comprise of another 10iu insulin, followed immediately by my first meal of the day - a 50/50 split of carbs and protein, usually around 6-800 kCal, with trace amounts of fat.

On days where I travel for work or skip the gym, it's likely I'll skip insulin administration on those days, as from my understanding it can be leveraging ad hoc and does not require steady, daily dosing to deliver results.

Blood glucose will be otherwise maintained through GDAs, berberine, and perhaps metformin as needed.
 

Heath82

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Agree with the above. Either add a preworkout meal or drop the log dose to 5ius and go from there.
 

hevi-head

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Agreed. I’d definitely start to go hypo on 25 pre and 25 intra on 10iu
 

Cerberus777

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Yeah, you prime to be very sensitive at 10% BF and fasted. Start with 5iu.
 

b-boy

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Hey Friends,


Prospective insulin use:

I am thinking I'll take 10iu Humalog or HumalinR preworkout with my 7iu hgh, BCAA/EAAs, creatine, and 25g dextrose, with another 25g dextrose sipped throughout the workout. I train first thing in the morning, fasted, so I think 50g carbs added will provide the substrate required to avoid hyperglycemia. I will monitor blood glucose to dial in the dose. I do not want to leverage dextrose heavily, as I like getting most of my carbs from food, but I am open to increasing periworkout carb intake as recommended.

Post workout would comprise of another 10iu insulin, followed immediately by my first meal of the day - a 50/50 split of carbs and protein, usually around 6-800 kCal, with trace amounts of fat.

On days where I travel for work or skip the gym, it's likely I'll skip insulin administration on those days, as from my understanding it can be leveraging ad hoc and does not require steady, daily dosing to deliver results.

Blood glucose will be otherwise maintained through GDAs, berberine, and perhaps metformin as needed.
Why did you just automatically choose 10iu?
Take an amount of slin to cover your current and future carb amounts in your diet.
 

Virtuous

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Why did you just automatically choose 10iu?
Take an amount of slin to cover your current and future carb amounts in your diet.
Fair enough. My blood glucose tends to be very sensitive to carbs, and between my peri workout carbs and post workout meal I’ll be having around 150g carbs, so 20iu split pre/post workout surrounded by that carb intake made sense.

This is why I posted, though, can’t know until you know. I’ll start insulin lower and ass I add carbs throughout the fall I’ll titrate you commensurately.

Appreciate all the feedback from everyone in the thread! Open to any other critiques/feedback as well. Obviously I’ll tweak this with time as well.
 

scmtnboy

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Why did you just automatically choose 10iu?
Take an amount of slin to cover your current and future carb amounts in your diet.
This is what I was going to say. Don't pick an amount of insulin and try and eat enough carbs for that dose. Structure a diet in line with your goals and then adjust your insulin dose accordingly. I'd keep some glucose tabs on hand just in case you ever feel hypo. It's not a good feeling.
 

specter

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as stated above by others dont start with 10iu, you have 0 idea how you will react to exogenous insulin, start with 5iu and work slowly up, get some glucose tabs to have on you when the insulin is active as crashing is really no fun :D
 

Muay Thai

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I dont even take insulin anymore and im on 10iu of jins per day and I eat less than 100g carbs per day and 2k calories MAX, anadrol and gh helping appetite, but even at 10iu slin preworkout 3x per week all i need is a 44g gatorade to not go hypo. I am leaner without the insulin tbh rn , have ran it for 6+ months at a time got big af but chunky! Ive gone hypo a handful of times, gatorade is a surefire way to avert this , no shit loading bs carbs or soda or any of that stuff bro, stresses the fuck out of your organ/ I am also 10% bodyfat easily, get the novolin R fast release. best wishes old friend !
 

Gunsmith

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I’d start with 25g slow carbs carbs 30min to an hr before training
take your insulin (Novolin-R)and HGH right before training and start sipping your intra workout drink (EAA , 10g creatine , 10g glutamine , 5g cittrilune maleate 1g salt 50g carbs) finish about 3/4 way through your training , immediately after training , on you way out of the gym start sipping a post workout shake , say 50g whey isolate and 50g carbs from simple carb source , about an hr later have a lean protein meal with 50ish g carbs , 50ish G protein and trace fat from the lean meat by this time You should be about 4 hr post injection and the insulin is nearing the end of its active life.

if you start at 10 iu novlin-r you have covered the suggested “10g carb per 1iu insulin” by 50%

absofuckinglulty , have an additional 50g carbs on hand from a Gatorade or glucose tabs ON HAND in case you are hyper sensitive to the insulin you can add those in if you start to feel hypoglycemic

BUT , alway always get your diet laid out 100% BEFORE starting insulin and then add in the dose of insulin to cover your carb needs , if you are only getting 25g carbs per serving and 75-100g total during the 5hr after injection DO NOT start at 10 in , and if you use humalog you need to consume your carbs dur it’s actI’ve life
 

Muay Thai

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I’d start with 25g slow carbs carbs 30min to an hr before training
take your insulin (Novolin-R)and HGH right before training and start sipping your intra workout drink (EAA , 10g creatine , 10g glutamine , 5g cittrilune maleate 1g salt 50g carbs) finish about 3/4 way through your training , immediately after training , on you way out of the gym start sipping a post workout shake , say 50g whey isolate and 50g carbs from simple carb source , about an hr later have a lean protein meal with 50ish g carbs , 50ish G protein and trace fat from the lean meat by this time You should be about 4 hr post injection and the insulin is nearing the end of its active life.

if you start at 10 iu novlin-r you have covered the suggested “10g carb per 1iu insulin” by 50%

absofuckinglulty , have an additional 50g carbs on hand from a Gatorade or glucose tabs ON HAND in case you are hyper sensitive to the insulin you can add those in if you start to feel hypoglycemic

BUT , alway always get your diet laid out 100% BEFORE starting insulin and then add in the dose of insulin to cover your carb needs , if you are only getting 25g carbs per serving and 75-100g total during the 5hr after injection DO NOT start at 10 in , and if you use humalog you need to consume your carbs dur it’s actI’ve life
this is the best response ive seen yet. exactly what ID recommend
 

Virtuous

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as stated above by others dont start with 10iu, you have 0 idea how you will react to exogenous insulin, start with 5iu and work slowly up, get some glucose tabs to have on you when the insulin is active as crashing is really no fun :D
Yep, I'm keeping a dextrose RTD bottle handy around me all the time, pre-mixed so I can slam it if I crash.
 

Virtuous

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I’d start with 25g slow carbs carbs 30min to an hr before training
take your insulin (Novolin-R)and HGH right before training and start sipping your intra workout drink (EAA , 10g creatine , 10g glutamine , 5g cittrilune maleate 1g salt 50g carbs) finish about 3/4 way through your training , immediately after training , on you way out of the gym start sipping a post workout shake , say 50g whey isolate and 50g carbs from simple carb source , about an hr later have a lean protein meal with 50ish g carbs , 50ish G protein and trace fat from the lean meat by this time You should be about 4 hr post injection and the insulin is nearing the end of its active life.

if you start at 10 iu novlin-r you have covered the suggested “10g carb per 1iu insulin” by 50%

absofuckinglulty , have an additional 50g carbs on hand from a Gatorade or glucose tabs ON HAND in case you are hyper sensitive to the insulin you can add those in if you start to feel hypoglycemic

BUT , alway always get your diet laid out 100% BEFORE starting insulin and then add in the dose of insulin to cover your carb needs , if you are only getting 25g carbs per serving and 75-100g total during the 5hr after injection DO NOT start at 10 in , and if you use humalog you need to consume your carbs dur it’s actI’ve life
So much great advice here. Thank you for taking the time to type all of this up.

Taking all of this down and using your advice for sure. I started today, actually.

I am certainly going to match my insulin intake to my scheduled carbs. To that point, I front loaded more of my carb intake (I have 400g to play with currently) to allow for the 10iu pre-workout, and 10iu post. Worked like a charm. 200g carbs down the hatch, 20iu insulin in the delts, and zero hypoglycemia to note. I'll do this for a month or so and tinker as needed from there.
 

Virtuous

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I dont even take insulin anymore and im on 10iu of jins per day and I eat less than 100g carbs per day and 2k calories MAX, anadrol and gh helping appetite, but even at 10iu slin preworkout 3x per week all i need is a 44g gatorade to not go hypo. I am leaner without the insulin tbh rn , have ran it for 6+ months at a time got big af but chunky! Ive gone hypo a handful of times, gatorade is a surefire way to avert this , no shit loading bs carbs or soda or any of that stuff bro, stresses the fuck out of your organ/ I am also 10% bodyfat easily, get the novolin R fast release. best wishes old friend !

Love this. I'm getting my carbs from high quality easily digestible sources periworkout, and rice/fruit the rest of the day, so I think I'm clean as I can be with that.

Got the NovalinR and good to rock.

I think you and I likely have similar set points, years of martial arts training keeps me around 10% year round after years of high intensity training. Body doesn't get TOO fat, ever, and dropping to the 8-9% range can be done with some discipline and DNP in a month or two lol.

Anecdotally I did 10iu pre and post workout this morning and I had zero hypo effects, so I think I nailed the carb intake part of this.
 

b-boy

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So much great advice here. Thank you for taking the time to type all of this up.

Taking all of this down and using your advice for sure. I started today, actually.

I am certainly going to match my insulin intake to my scheduled carbs. To that point, I front loaded more of my carb intake (I have 400g to play with currently) to allow for the 10iu pre-workout, and 10iu post. Worked like a charm. 200g carbs down the hatch, 20iu insulin in the delts, and zero hypoglycemia to note. I'll do this for a month or so and tinker as needed from there.
I often wonder why I even waste my time with people now a days?

You are still fixated on the 20iu of slin, you have never taken slin right? So why 20iu? Just saying 😌 🤷🏿
 

btails

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My advice; research justin harris method on this. You don't just randomly go shooting a pre determined amount of slin. You start at 1iu and work your way up an iu at a time to a dosage that suits your current diet.
 

Virtuous

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I often wonder why I even waste my time with people now a days?

You are still fixated on the 20iu of slin, you have never taken slin right? So why 20iu? Just saying 😌 🤷🏿
Sorry man. I didn't want to disrespect. I certainly wasn't attempting to disregard your advice, and I read all of your posts when I see them to learn.

My broad understanding is to map insulin to carb intake, 1iu for 10g. 400g carbs (my diet allows for this much at the moment) would mean daily intake of 40iu, but I don't plan on adding gh to the back half of my day at this point - keeping it periworkout.

I'm trying to maximize the efficiency of all of this, so having 200g carbs in this window with 20iu seemed to make sense.

My understanding with insulin is that it's not something that requires titrating up like some would with gh or other AAS, you can apply it at any dose fit for purpose as dictated by diet.

Of course, if I feel any negatives I can adjust, as the half life isn't exactly long.

However, if you're saying that I'll enjoy a litany of benefits at 5-10iu and won't be leaving progress off the table, I certainly don't mind saving a couple bucks and lowering the dose.
 

specter

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Sorry man. I didn't want to disrespect. I certainly wasn't attempting to disregard your advice, and I read all of your posts when I see them to learn.

My broad understanding is to map insulin to carb intake, 1iu for 10g. 400g carbs (my diet allows for this much at the moment) would mean daily intake of 40iu, but I don't plan on adding gh to the back half of my day at this point - keeping it periworkout.

I'm trying to maximize the efficiency of all of this, so having 200g carbs in this window with 20iu seemed to make sense.

My understanding with insulin is that it's not something that requires titrating up like some would with gh or other AAS, you can apply it at any dose fit for purpose as dictated by diet.

Of course, if I feel any negatives I can adjust, as the half life isn't exactly long.

However, if you're saying that I'll enjoy a litany of benefits at 5-10iu and won't be leaving progress off the table, I certainly don't mind saving a couple bucks and lowering the dose.
The thing with insulin is, your own insulin sensitivity comes to play so if you can get a insane effect with 5iu there is no reason to shoot 10iu.
 

Virtuous

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The thing with insulin is, your own insulin sensitivity comes to play so if you can get a insane effect with 5iu there is no reason to shoot 10iu.
This makes sense. My insulin sensitivity is very good, even on 10iu gh daily with no slin or metformin (just Berberine at night) my blood glucose is in the 80s when fed.
 

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