Help with PEDs for grappling

[NEMSZ]

So I know this is a bodybuilding forum, but figured since it was talked about a couple weeks ago, some of you might be able to help me out on my grappling/BJJ journey..


Training;

BJJ/Wrestling 7-9x per week, Monday-Friday.. Some days are once a day, some are 2-3x a day.. 1-1.5hr sessions, that includes warm ups, drills and rolling/grappling with some hard grappling sessions pretty much every day.. Friday is the longest hard grappling session being a “competition day” so it’s 1-1.5hrs of balls to the wall wrestling, grappling, BJJ the entire time.. Obviously we take breaks to chill between rounds but it’s a very high paced day..

Also going to be doing some programming by Dane Miller, he’s worked with a lot of Olympic and NCAA Wrestlers, national and world champion level guys..

A lot of his programming is explosive movements; box jumps of all kinds, with weight, single leg, from different angles etc, snatches, push presses, jerks, squats, med ball slams, sprints, TABATA Sprints on air bike etc…

Goals;

Given the amount of training and high intensity explosive movements, my main priorities are

Explosiveness
Strength
Cardio
Recovery
Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility

Current Issues/Concerns;

I feel like my recovery is seriously lacking, I have increased intensity and gotten more wrestling focused, considering that BJJ comps are attracting a lot more high level wrestlers, so I’m trying to match that same approach..

Also my style is a lot more aggressive in that sense, I like the wrestling, explosive take downs etc.. That “butt scooting” to your opponents and dropping to the ground to pull guard is boring to me, and to majority of people and as I said, high level wrestlers are coming into the sport and dominating..

My joints, specifically my elbows and shoulders are extremely sore and in extreme pain after only a couple minutes of grappling/wrestling.. This started happening about 2 weeks ago as I ramped up intensity and training.. Literally the pain in my elbows and shoulders is about 8/10 and afterwards my water jug might as well be a 100lb dumbbell. I can barely pick it up, can barely do a push up, and it takes about 1-2 hours after completely relaxing for the pain so subside, but upon any force or strength the pain returns pretty evenly to what I’m doing.. If I’m lifting something heavy for work, it’ll only bother me a bit as I do the lifting and goes away.. If I go to wrestle for a couple rounds, the pain kicks in the first 1-2 minutes and gets extremely uncomfortable and painful the entire time and takes even longer to subside..

Something to heal, and recover my joints/ligaments/tendons would be amazing as I don’t know what’s fully going on in there but I doubt anything is torn/broken..

Current PEDs;

Test Cyp 200mg per week
HGH 3iu ED (started again yesterday after a couple weeks off)…



Any help is greatly appreciated;

@Performance Based i know you have experience with performance based athletes and @Big Dave Smith i know you’re a black belt and have some experience here so hope you guys can chime in too..

Thanks..

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Not my area of expertise, but i have heard many many times people here say that cardarine has given them “extra gas” and they felt like cardio was nothing etc etc

 

[ihab001]

I would say it all depend on your budget , but to start from what u will feel better first , gw1510 (cardarine ) 15 mg daily will add boost in ur stamina for sure ,
2) nac will make you feel better
3 ) tb500 will boost ur recovery period 5 mg a week split in 2 dosages
4) turmeric /curcumin
5)epo boost supplement
6) 20 mg glutamine daily

 

[pickapeck]

I did similar in the 80s and 90s. AAS was almost never over 300 mg/w. higher and it was detrimental to cardio I needed but that little bit helped recovery a lot. Joints always felt better when completely off. No GH of fancy peptides ack then. I did train at dojo well into my 50s but much less. However, joint issues were much more after so many years on the mat. I used GHRP2 a lot and well towards the end used a combo of BPC157 and TB500 to aid tendonitis. You will laugh but simple ibuprofen helped with joint pain but periodically or it would stop working. Things to avoid: Tren, high doses of any AAS. Drugs that worked were EQ, Win, Sustanon, those were my favorites. Winstrol suddenly began killing my joints in my late 40s so they went out the window. Well toward the end I settled on test/primo total dose 300 mg. If I could have I would have used that in my comparative career.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

If I were to design something…

Test- 200-250mg/wk
Deca- 100-150mg/wk
Primo- 200mg/wk
TB-500- 1mg ED
BPC- 500mcg 2-3x/day
GH- 3iu ED
Cardarine- 20-30mg ED

Leading into a tournament or super fight, drop the GH a week out.

The only other thing I’d consider is 10mg Anavar.

 

[juggy38]

If I were to design something…

Test- 200-250mg/wk
Deca- 100-150mg/wk
Primo- 200mg/wk
TB-500- 1mg ED
BPC- 500mcg 2-3x/day
GH- 3iu ED
Cardarine- 20-30mg ED

Leading into a tournament or super fight, drop the GH a week out.

The only other thing I’d consider is 10mg Anavar.

^^^this.

You get to pushing AAS while trying to grapple at a high level, and the forearm pumps become a problem. And water weight is a no go if your in a tournament.

I always had to weigh 207.5lbs in a GI when I competed. So PEDs were mostly to keep my body from falling apart sparring.

I liked a little masteron sprinkled in just for neural drive and I’m a bloaty human anyway…so it didn’t dry me out too bad

 

[lycan venom]

Vet on Anasci and BJJ mat roller.

Test: any test and dose you can handle
DHT: anavar to loose weight or winstrol for strength or masterone if your bf % is low enough.. dbol or adrol for strength + possible bloat

Major warning.. 19nor : only NPP or Deca aka Nandro because Tren will kill your cardio leaving you breathing heavy even if you use ephedrine or clen. Either way you may get ED issues, so use 5mg cialis for that muscle blood pump or viagra for the for sure busting a nutt times.

Other than that, you don't need other compounds. Sure you could use EQ or Primo but you are better off with the aforementioned. Hit all 3 receptors if you are intermidiate to advanced and lift to prep for comp like Andre Galvao or Gordon Ryan..

Noob-ish... use test and var or winnie and eat clean for lean muscle and better cardio to not gas out while rolling.

Also.. be mindful of RHABDOMYOLYSIS... I learned the hard way and ended up with a 7 day hospital stay and on heart meds the past 2 years. I pushed myself too hard prepping for npc and panam.

 

[Performance Based]

Afternoon mate -

The pain you are experiencing, what is the triggering movement/pattern? I am on the Muay Thai side (very little jiu jitsu experience) - let me preface with this.

I separate explosiveness and strength heavily and focus on acceleration so to speak when I am coming into a fight. The ability to rapidly contract a muscle group has a very different neurological drive than moving weight heavily and has worked a bit better for me than traditional oly lifting. Can you share some of your programming?

A big thing guys do, especially from the enhanced community, guys will do 100% of program A and 100% of program B combining two different training pedagogies for 200% output. Even with all this shit, we are but mere mortals. When was the last time you had a deload with the gym sessions?

Also
1) How far out are you from your competition?
2) Weight and weight class you want to come into?

If you are an explosive wrestler I would highly recommend EPO at 500-1,000IU Mon-Fri. Lactate be damned but it seems to have a buffering effect on lactate. My top end performance increases in all sincerity by approximately 15-20% when I run EPO.

I have a full log of my prep for Muay Thai Worlds which unfortunately fell through but you can see how I arranged everything.

 

[Performance Based]

If I were to design something…

Test- 200-250mg/wk
Deca- 100-150mg/wk
Primo- 200mg/wk
TB-500- 1mg ED
BPC- 500mcg 2-3x/day
GH- 3iu ED
Cardarine- 20-30mg ED

Leading into a tournament or super fight, drop the GH a week out.

The only other thing I’d consider is 10mg Anavar.

Hey Dave - We haven't chatted much in the past so let me preface with this. Hope you're having an epic day.

Never seen TB/BPC dosages ran like this before. Could you please chime in and elaborate a bit more here sir?

 

[IFBBProDomCardone]

Low dose test 100-200mg, 100-150 deca or ideally, 200-250 EQ...EQ for obvious performance benefits. As said above, tb500 and bpc will be your best friend and GH if possible.

Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum is injectable SR9 and GW.... It completely blows away the normal oral GW.

I currently use low dose test and cardiobolic as any anabolic I touch I get massively pumped which is a problem lol

 

[Performance Based]

Low dose test 100-200mg, 100-150 deca or ideally, 200-250 EQ...EQ for obvious performance benefits. As said above, tb500 and bpc will be your best friend and GH if possible.

Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum is injectable SR9 and GW.... It completely blows away the normal oral GW.

I currently use low dose test and cardiobolic as any anabolic I touch I get massively pumped which is a problem lol

How has Cardiobolic affected your resting heart rate/quality of sleep? I ran injectible SR9009 a while back and it was terrifying.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Hey Dave - We haven't chatted much in the past so let me preface with this. Hope you're having an epic day.

Never seen TB/BPC dosages ran like this before. Could you please chime in and elaborate a bit more here sir?

Most of the doses for TB and BPC are regurgitated dogma. They’re water based peptides. No reason to spread them out so far.

I’ve used both religiously since 2014, using every protocol found online.

TB benefited me much more from ED use.
BPC is much better multiple times per day.

Everyone is shooting in the dark and copying opinions.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Vet on Anasci and BJJ mat roller.

Test: any test and dose you can handle
DHT: anavar to loose weight or winstrol for strength or masterone if your bf % is low enough.. dbol or adrol for strength + possible bloat

Major warning.. 19nor : only NPP or Deca aka Nandro because Tren will kill your cardio leaving you breathing heavy even if you use ephedrine or clen. Either way you may get ED issues, so use 5mg cialis for that muscle blood pump or viagra for the for sure busting a nutt times.

Other than that, you don't need other compounds. Sure you could use EQ or Primo but you are better off with the aforementioned. Hit all 3 receptors if you are intermidiate to advanced and lift to prep for comp like Andre Galvao or Gordon Ryan..

Noob-ish... use test and var or winnie and eat clean for lean muscle and better cardio to not gas out while rolling.

Also.. be mindful of RHABDOMYOLYSIS... I learned the hard way and ended up with a 7 day hospital stay and on heart meds the past 2 years. I pushed myself too hard prepping for npc and panam.

I don’t agree here.

Winstrol is terrible for your joints. Not just in the short term, but in the long term. It also tanks HDL.

Gear doesn’t help you lose weight.

Masteron should only be used at a LOW dose to offset issues with nandrolone and test.

Never dbol or anadrol.

The goal is to exist on some of these compounds for longer periods of time to boost recovery and avoid health consequences.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Low dose test 100-200mg, 100-150 deca or ideally, 200-250 EQ...EQ for obvious performance benefits. As said above, tb500 and bpc will be your best friend and GH if possible.

Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum is injectable SR9 and GW.... It completely blows away the normal oral GW.

I currently use low dose test and cardiobolic as any anabolic I touch I get massively pumped which is a problem lol

I never noticed an increase in cardiovascular endurance from EQ (increased RBC).

Grapplers may need to be wary of using something like EQ because they sweat SOOO much. As dehydration increases, blood viscosity can increase. If a guy drops 5-8lbs in a practice, it takes time for those cells to rehydrate. Hot weather + thick blood + increased heart rate during and post workout can be a risky situation.

 

[Orville Shreddenbacher]

Everything big Dave Said , I always like halos on open mat and competition days , tne also

 

[Performance Based]

Understood mate - have you noticed any changes to RHR while using in higher dosages? Any uptick in recovery from training at higher dosages? Looking to drop weight classes next year which will require next to 0 AAS outside of TRT dosage. Trying to find edges on recovery that do not simultaneous maintain my weight at 215+.

Most of the doses for TB and BPC are regurgitated dogma. They’re water based peptides. No reason to spread them out so far.

I’ve used both religiously since 2014, using every protocol found online.

TB benefited me much more from ED use.
BPC is much better multiple times per day.

Everyone is shooting in the dark and copying opinions.

 

[NEMSZ]

I did similar in the 80s and 90s. AAS was almost never over 300 mg/w. higher and it was detrimental to cardio I needed but that little bit helped recovery a lot. Joints always felt better when completely off. No GH of fancy peptides ack then. I did train at dojo well into my 50s but much less. However, joint issues were much more after so many years on the mat. I used GHRP2 a lot and well towards the end used a combo of BPC157 and TB500 to aid tendonitis. You will laugh but simple ibuprofen helped with joint pain but periodically or it would stop working. Things to avoid: Tren, high doses of any AAS. Drugs that worked were EQ, Win, Sustanon, those were my favorites. Winstrol suddenly began killing my joints in my late 40s so they went out the window. Well toward the end I settled on test/primo total dose 300 mg. If I could have I would have used that in my comparative career.

Yea I figure AAS dosages wouldn’t be high because of pumps and hindering cardio/mobility etc..

How did you like the BPC and TB?? Been researching those a lot lately.. Any side effects to note??

 

[NEMSZ]

If I were to design something…

Test- 200-250mg/wk
Deca- 100-150mg/wk
Primo- 200mg/wk
TB-500- 1mg ED
BPC- 500mcg 2-3x/day
GH- 3iu ED
Cardarine- 20-30mg ED

Leading into a tournament or super fight, drop the GH a week out.

The only other thing I’d consider is 10mg Anavar.

Most of the doses for TB and BPC are regurgitated dogma. They’re water based peptides. No reason to spread them out so far.

I’ve used both religiously since 2014, using every protocol found online.

TB benefited me much more from ED use.
BPC is much better multiple times per day.

Everyone is shooting in the dark and copying opinions.

I don’t agree here.

Winstrol is terrible for your joints. Not just in the short term, but in the long term. It also tanks HDL.

Gear doesn’t help you lose weight.

Masteron should only be used at a LOW dose to offset issues with nandrolone and test.

Never dbol or anadrol.

The goal is to exist on some of these compounds for longer periods of time to boost recovery and avoid health consequences.

Thanks for your input Dave..

A couple of things;

As for Deca, my TRT doc is willing to prescribe me, my only concern is the length of time in the system in case of 2 things, undesired effects and testing for comps.. I know a lot of comps don’t test at all, but have heard some of the bigger events like Pan Ams and IBJJF are starting to test but do allow exemptions.. Just can’t imagine an exemption for Deca lol

Does NPP provide similar joint/tendon/ligament relief and healing or is that more of a Deca thing?

As for the BPC/TB, I assume it’s worked great over the years if you’ve used it for that long.. Any kind of side effects I should note using the protocol you outlined??

Cardadine; I’ve heard people get really anxious and feel weird on it, plus I’ve read studies that show it’s toxic and can increase tumor/cancer growths?? Any info on this??

And on your last post, yes, definitely my goal here too to keep my health 100%, even if I were to become a world champion, I don’t think it’s worth shaving years off my life lol.. They don’t pay that well in BJJ, anyway

Also, I’m hovering around 185-187lbs, my coach says he’d like me around 165-170lbs for competition weight… But I know a lot of that is diet and hydration related, not too worried about the PEDs and weight increase.. Unless you have a better opinion??

 

[pickapeck]

Yea I figure AAS dosages wouldn’t be high because of pumps and hindering cardio/mobility etc..

How did you like the BPC and TB?? Been researching those a lot lately.. Any side effects to note??

No, no sides from them at all in my case.

 

[NEMSZ]

Afternoon mate -

The pain you are experiencing, what is the triggering movement/pattern? I am on the Muay Thai side (very little jiu jitsu experience) - let me preface with this.

I separate explosiveness and strength heavily and focus on acceleration so to speak when I am coming into a fight. The ability to rapidly contract a muscle group has a very different neurological drive than moving weight heavily and has worked a bit better for me than traditional oly lifting. Can you share some of your programming?

A big thing guys do, especially from the enhanced community, guys will do 100% of program A and 100% of program B combining two different training pedagogies for 200% output. Even with all this shit, we are but mere mortals. When was the last time you had a deload with the gym sessions?

Also
1) How far out are you from your competition?
2) Weight and weight class you want to come into?

If you are an explosive wrestler I would highly recommend EPO at 500-1,000IU Mon-Fri. Lactate be damned but it seems to have a buffering effect on lactate. My top end performance increases in all sincerity by approximately 15-20% when I run EPO.

I have a full log of my prep for Muay Thai Worlds which unfortunately fell through but you can see how I arranged everything.

What’s up brother? Thanks for replying..

So the pain comes with basically any kind of decent force.. Example, I can do push ups and it bothers my elbows and shoulders but increase the force of pushing/pulling like when wrestling and having a 180-200lb man on top of you and you need to pry him off of you by pushing against him with everything you have or having a body lock on someone and squeezing super hard as they’re trying to fight out of it etc.. My shoulders and elbows will feel like they’re on fire, sore, and after a couple rounds it’ll be hard for me to do a push up off the ground and even pick up my gym bag and water without wincing in pain and needing to move very slowly and methodically..

As far as the programming, I only have what I’ve seen on his YouTube; you can look up Garage Strength and check it out, but he doesn’t give out full programming on there obviously.. But you can get an idea of what he implies.. He has like 15 programs on his site for different stages of Wrestling and BJJ etc, I was actually planning on calling them on Monday to see what program would be best for my specific goals, so I don’t have the details at this moment..

But I agree, I would think the programming for strength and power/explosiveness would be separate, or at least separate training days..

1) There might be a big event at the end of the year, but not 100% certain and also, not 100% certain I’ll be ready by then in terms of preparedness for competing, there’s some really nasty guys out there and I’m doing by best to be my best, but to me (and I’m really hard on myself) I’ve got a lot of work to do, but there’s still time to decide..

2) I’m hovering around 185-187lbs, coach says he’d like me around 165-170lbs for competition..

And I’m kinda scared of EPO are the side effects and thick blood heart attacks over blown?? Would love some more detailed info on that..

Is that log on here so I can check it out??