how does hydrocodone affect your mind??

[Mike Arnold]

Great post, very accurate, good job beating it!

Thanks.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Broscience? I have my Pharm D, a DOCTORATE in pharmacy. I went to Columbia University, and currently work for walgreens as a staff pharmacist. I could care less what you say, as I have studied nothing but prescription medications for the past 9yrs of my life. To say that oxycodone is more potent than hydrocodone, is just ignorant. Educate yourselves more, before spreading incorrect information. I am no longer a part of this discussion.

You are 100% wrong...sorry, but you are. I respect your pharmacist degree, but that by no means qualifies you as knowing more about these drugs than me...and your post proves it. You spent 9 years prescribing these drugs, but the learning curriculum for becoming a pharmacist teaches extremely little about opiates. Anything you might have learned about these drugs, aside from the miniscule amount of info learned while getting your degree, would've been by self-education. Using your argument is akin to a doctor saying he knows more about AAS simply because he is a doctor, but we all know that is not the case.

On the other hand, I spent my LIFE learning about opiates (20 years)....not only as an obssessed addict who scoured every piece of available medical literature on the sbject, but as a drug couselor at a nationally recognized hospital for opiate treatment. I don't have the time to pull up legitimate references to show where you are wrong in your post, but I can assure you that you are.

 

[TNH]

Please do not just stop cold turkey. You must slowly decrease your daily dose over time, ideally under the servision of a physician. You will start vomiting, shaking, etc. I have seen oxycontin withdrawal, and it is not a pretty site.

I've gone through it several times, and for whatever reason it gets easier and easier each time. I am extremely odd with my response to drugs and withdrawal. The first time I quit cold turkey, I shook violently for 30 minutes straight, but with extreme euphoria. I researched it later because I was shocked that it was pleasurable and weird at the same time, and I came across a study that said the brain can release massive amounts of GABA during withdrawal, which would explain my GHB like euphoria that I experienced.
I never vomited during withdrawal, but I did have to use the toilet very frequently.
I have been clean from the oxy for 4 days already and I am not experiencing any negative effects other than lethargy and craving the drug. I suspect my massive tolerance to the drug is somehow making the withdrawal less severe.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Pleas don't take tbis the wrong way, as I respect you a LOT mike, but hydrocodone is 100% NOT stronger than oxycodone.
Yes, it is...by a very small amount, but yes, it is.


Oxycontin is basicslky synthetic heroin.
ALL these drugs are synthetic versions of Morphine. Heroin is di-acetyl morphine.


Oxycontin is the extended release form of oxycodone.
Correct, minus the anti-inflammatories.

Take one 10mg tablet of oxycodone, and compare that to one 10mg tablet of oxycontin, BIG difference.
The only difference in strength is in how fast it will absorb, but simply crushing or chewing the Oxcontin will un-do it's time-released properties...making them equal. For your knowledge, I have taken both 1000's of times.

Same goes for hydrocodone... Take one 10mg/325mg or 500 or even 750mg hydrocone(the 2nd number is just the Tylenol dose) and compare that to one 10mg tablet of oxycodone, again BIG difference.
The only difference between 10 mg Oxycodone and 7.5 mg Hydrocodone is the Oxy will be slightly less than 25% stronger, as hyro is slightly stronger, per mg. It is a common misconception that Oxy is stronger than hydro...broscience, as kaladryn stated.

The correct order of potency mg per mg, would be Heroin first, oxycodone 2nd, and hydrocodone 3rd.
No...I listed the correct potency. All 3 are nearly identical, with the order being heroin (by an ass hair), Hydro, and Oxy.


There is also more than just a 2% difference between them all.
No...there is not.

The scheduled drug class system exists for a reason.
The schedule is not necessatily indicative of potency, per mg.


A CIII drug like hydrocodone, is just that, a class 3 drug. Heroin is a class I and oxycodone is a class 2. The classes represent the addictive potential of the medication.
LOL. Sorry, brother...but this is 100% WRONG...wrong with the biggest lettered wrong I can type.

Just as an exampe, both hydromorphone and Oxymorphne are stronger (considerably)than heroin, per mg, yet neither are class I drugs like heroin. Dilauded has been around a while and contain hydromorphone. It is rarely prescribed now, with time-released oxymorphine being prescribed much more often (it cannot be injected), but when hydromorphine was being prsecribed without time-release, a heroin user would gladly trade his dope for a few Dulaided pills...which he would crush up, add water, draw out the active ingredient and inject. The high was better than heroin and NO ONE in his right mind would say heroin was more addictive than hydromorphone. That is just one example of many, so your agument that a drug's scheduling always determines its addictive potential is totally wrong.


Heroin is THE most addictive, oxy is 2nd, and hydrocodone is 3rd. Notice that the more potent mg per mg medications, are also the most addictive.
As I said, you are wrong about the previous comments, so what you are saying here is based on incorrect info.


Which is more potent and which is more addictive, meth or adderall? Both are amphetamines, but meth is meth and adderall is an amphetamine salt combo. They are similar, but also VERY different in both effect, potency, and potential for addiction. The answer is the same for bith questions. The answer is meth btw.

Of course, Meth is more addictive, but you are completely misguided in your beliefs. I addition to my own extensive knowledge & experience regarding these drugs, I have also consulted with numerous "world-regonized" doctors on this sibject, ALL of whom had made their way into the hospital several times. All are in agreement with me. Medical reserach proves the potency issues and as far as addictive potential is concerned, anyone involved in the entire drug treatment sector, including doctors, nurses, and counselors, etc...we all know the truth regarding addictive potential. This is not your area of expertise and whoever told you this stuff is dead-wrong.

Kaldryn has consistently exhibited solid knowledge on this sibject over the years. I have seen him post about it numerous times and recognized right away he was very knowledgable on this sibject. In this thread, we agree again...because you are wrong....on many levels.

Again, please don't take this as disrespect, but I will stand my ground when I KNOW without any doubt I am correct.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Are you here to help or just trying to show up others? How much experience to you have being addicted to any of these medications?
I believe he is trying to help...he just happens to be completely wrong. of this, I am 100% confident and the science suport my beliefs..

They are all horribly addicting, way over prescribed and killing people.
Mg per mg I noticed no difference in potency between Oxycotin, Oxycodone, or hydrocodone.
That's because the difference is so slight, you won't notice any difference on a mg to mg basis.

(Never tried heroin) At one point I needed 500-600mg or more a day ( + a bottle of vodka and 3 grams of coke) or I would start to go into withdrawls. (What a fucking miserable existence! ) I would take what ever was available. Now, the euphoric "high" feeling I got was different with each one. I preffered Hydrocodone (Vicodin) over the others. It gave me a more peace full high, at least at first. The other two I would get very aggitated after 20-30 minutes. My point is, IMO, they all have the same potential for addiction and the withdrawls are hell no matter what.
Yes, they are all equally addictive. Withdrawal times vary slightly for each one, but all demonstrate equal addictive potential.

.....

 

[RollinRock]

TNH- I am going through the exact same thing as you bro. I am prescribed Oxycontin and Norco Vicodin from my doctor for pain. I want to get off Oxy so bad I can't even tell you. It is very difficult as I have been on Oxy's for almost 4 years. I am prescribed 90 20mg Oxy's and 90 Norcos 10mg a month. My body is so used to them I don't even feel them anymore, not like I used to anyway. Good luck bro and I mean that. I have to find a way to just cut loose from these no more excuses.

JuicyJay- Thanks for all of your insight and information I have pretty extensive experience when it comes to what opiates do but it is always good to here info from someone as qualified as you are. You know exactly what problems pain pills can cause and once someone is on them for an extended amount of time it is very difficult to come off.

 

[juicyjay]

Do you know what a pharmacist is? I am the one behind the pharmacy counter when you pick up your medications. I tell you what to avoid using or taking while on that medication, what side effects to expect, etc. I do not prescribe anything, that is what doctors do. I provide information to patients regarding their medications. Have you been to pharmacy school? Then how do you know what the cirriculum entails? A LOT of time is spent on opiates...their mechanisms of action, half lives, side effects, typical dosages for various levels of pain, which medications interact with them, etc. Your doctor analogy is not true. I am a doctor OF pharmaceutical medications. It is the doctors who get a mere 6 months of medication education. THEY know nothing about the drugs, which is why they say "ask your pharmacist." they know nothing of the drugs, and I am a doctor of them, so to say it is like stating that a doctor knows everything about AAS, is not accurate.

You are 100% wrong...sorry, but you are. I respect your pharmacist degree, but that by no means qualifies you as knowing more about these drugs than me...and your post proves it. You spent 9 years prescribing these drugs, but the learning curriculum for becoming a pharmacist teaches extremely little about opiates. Anything you might have learned about these drugs, aside from the miniscule amount of info learned while getting your degree, would've been by self-education. Using your argument is akin to a doctor saying he knows more about AAS simply because he is a doctor, but we all know that is not the case.

On the other hand, I spent my LIFE learning about opiates (20 years)....not only as an obssessed addict who scoured every piece of available medical literature on the sbject, but as a drug couselor at a nationally recognized hospital for opiate treatment. I don't have the time to pull up legitimate references to show where you are wrong in your post, but I can assure you that you are.

 

[Hendawg75]

Hey yall,
I'm mostly a lurker reading post trying to learn much as possible. I used to be prescribed 120mgs of roxycodone per day. I told my doctor at the time fuck it I'm going to quit this shit cold turkey. Of course he warned me that I would end up in the hospital from withdrawal. I used phenibut along with some other nootropics and beat in about a week or less. That was after years of using the pain pills. Now if I do need medication I get Nucyntra ER prescribed to me. I've got a real good pain management doctor at the Shepherd Center in Atlanta.

 

[Tooreal11]

I reduced my intake to 1 pill a day by ingesting it. Use to bang them down my nose when had me taking more. After I reduced to 1 pill a day I went cold turkey. MISERABLE!!! But, if you can get through it....Will be the best thing you ever did for yourself and make you one of the strongest people on this planet. As far as me craving them, I had zero cravings....Would rather die than go through that shit again.

 

[Kaladryn]

The scheduled drug class system exists for a reason. A CIII drug like hydrocodone, is just that, a class 3 drug. Heroin is a class I and oxycodone is a class 2. The classes represent the addictive potential of the medication. Heroin is THE most addictive, oxy is 2nd, and hydrocodone is 3rd. Notice that the more potent mg per mg medications, are also the most addictive.

That explains why weed is schedule I... The problem with weed addiction is, no matter how badly you are addicted, you can still forget to smoke...

 

[kylho]

You might want to do some current research on tramadol. What you stated is what was released by the pharm. industry and doctors repeated it. Chemically tramadol is an opiod hybrid withssri effects. Tramadol will actually prevent mild true opiate withdrawal and lessen the withdrawal from heavier users. Trams also are very addictive and the withdrawals are much worse than hydrocodone withdrawal . The same opiate WD side effects, plus a brain zapping feeling like coming off ssri's and it lasts weeks not days. Please research this before people actually follow your advice. Like I said, what you stated is what was originally released about this medication. Current information available wil back up what I said. here is a link.

Tramadol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dan I thank you for correcting me. Only recently have I seen a change in the way that they now are dispensing Tramadol - in the last 6months. It used to be that Tramadol was fully considered a non-narcotic and was classified as an NSAID. Just in the last 6 mnths the DEA required it be considered a controlled med, and thus needing to be dispensed as other controlled meds are, however, there was never any discussion about the fact that they reclassified it as a weak opioid now.
However, it still doesn't change the statements I made. I suggested Tramadol as a way to decrease from stronger opioids, and although the government doesn't want to state that is a indication, it is commonly used in addiction medicine to help decrease the patient off stronger opioids. There was someone above who also used this med in a similar fashion at home and was luckily able to wean himself off.
So I do thank you for pointing out my mistake in the classification of the medication, however I still stand by my initial statement that it can be used as a effective way to decrease off of stronger opioids.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Do you know what a pharmacist is? I am the one behind the pharmacy counter when you pick up your medications. I tell you what to avoid using or taking while on that medication, what side effects to expect, etc. I do not prescribe anything, that is what doctors do. I provide information to patients regarding their medications. Have you been to pharmacy school? Then how do you know what the cirriculum entails? A LOT of time is spent on opiates...their mechanisms of action, half lives, side effects, typical dosages for various levels of pain, which medications interact with them, etc. Your doctor analogy is not true. I am a doctor OF pharmaceutical medications. It is the doctors who get a mere 6 months of medication education. THEY know nothing about the drugs, which is why they say "ask your pharmacist." they know nothing of the drugs, and I am a doctor of them, so to say it is like stating that a doctor knows everything Lbout AAS, is not accurate.

Of course, I know what a phatmacit is. Instead of me saying you "prescribe" medications, I should have said you "fill" medications. My bad.

I know 2 pharmacists (one a good friend who works at CVS), both of whom I have spoken with about what they were taught in school, regarding opiates. Pharmacists learn the "basics"...and next to nothing about addiction or any of the particulars attached to it. Of course, you will learn about these drug's mechanisms of actions, half-lives, side effects, drug interactions, and what dosages are prescribed for various levels of pain...you need to.

But...you learn only basic, general info atributed to each drug...and learn about the class as a whole. There are so many drugs to cover when getting a pharm degree, that spending considerable time on each one is impossible...and some aspects of opiates and their use aren't even touched on because it is not necessary for a pharamcist to do his/her job.

Look, I am not trying to discredit your knowledge, as pharmacists obviously have to learn about "many" different drugs, BUT they are by NO MEANS experts on opiates...nor are they educated on addiction to any meaningful degree.

I only responded to your post because I was defending my position. It was not meant as an attack on you.

 

[Mike Arnold]

As an example of pharmacists sometimes being wrong, I was about to fill prescription for a client who was having a very hard time sleeping after quitting opiates and had been experiencing this for some time. The medication was trazadone and the prescribed dosage was 400 mg, once per day, as needed for sleep.

The pharmacist refused to fill my script, telling me the dosage amount was an error...and that this dosage would kill someone. I explained to him that it was being prescribed for a recovering addict and because of it's non-addictive potential (phyhsically), it is frequently prescribed for this purpose. I also explained that many addicts have a very difficult time sleeping for many months after quitting and therefore, will take it daily for 6 months or even more in some cases. However, because tolerance levels for trazadone develop rapidly, it is not abnormal for addicts to reach a dose of 200-400 mg per night with extended use. I also explained that this patient had taken this dose many times before without issue.

Of course, because he was "the" pharmacist and I was just the guy standing at the counter, he paid me no attention and flat-out denied filling it unless he spoke with the doctor. Now, for someone who is supposedly an "expert" on all drugs, he certainly was not demonstrating expert knolewdge on this subject. On top of him being wrong about potential dosing amounts, he was wrong about trazadone causing death in the event of an OD, as it is extremley hard, if not impossible to die from trazadone overdose, due to the drug's ceiling effect. In reality, this pharmacist knew about as much about this class of drugs, as he did about opiates...which is not as much as he thought.

So, I drove over the the pharmacy right next door, had it filled and drove back to the original pharmacy with the patient (who was with me). I showed the pharmacist it had been filled and the client took all 400 mg right in front of his face, then left. About 2 hours ater we came back just to show the pharmacist that this man was very much alive and in good shape, aside from beng pretty damn tired.


This is just one so numerous times where I have had issues with pharmacists being wrong about drugs they fill. Of course, if you attempt to tell them they are wrong, they throw their pharmacy degree of your face. You don't even want to know the conversations I have had with pharmacists about testosterone, nandrolone, anadrol, winstrol (a few didn't even know what some these steroids were, yet they are doctors of "drugs"), Clomid, HCG (that was a good one...LOL)...and Nolvadex, among others.

Pharmacists definitely have their place and I have consulted them more than once regarding drugs I knew little to nothing about...and they were very helpful. However, they are taught moderate amounts of pertinent information regarding ALL drugs. No doubt, this is a HUGE amount of information to learn when we consider all the different medications out there, but pharmacists don't specialize in opiates anymore than they specilize in fertility/PCT drugs, or AAS.

 

[Mike Arnold]

That explains why weed is schedule I... The problem with weed addiction is, no matter how badly you are addicted, you can still forget to smoke...

Of course...of course. I guess that is also why weed is schedule I and Hydromorphone is scheduled beneath it. I guess it must be less "addictive" than weed.

 

[rusty2902]

I agree with tmuscle i like them to T much and kno how i get when they r gone now i try to refrain from use

 

[dracula]

I was on oxycodone 80mg a day and oxycontin 40mg a night and I became addicted. Now the Doc has me on vicodin 7.5mg 4 x a day to get me better and I like it.

 

[i_hulk]

I know someone who said this substance completely took away all withdrawal symptoms when he stopped using opiates. H was the first person I had ever heard this from.

Well let me be the 2nd. I will have to say that Kratom is a "miracle" plant for opiate withdrawal symptoms. I was on pain meds for a couple years after a couple surgeries and wanted to get off of em. Was taking about 5-6 10mg percocets daily. I researched and researched home "recipes" for the withdrawals and came across Kratom. I experienced opiate withdrawals and for me it was completely horrible. I decided to order some Kratom...online... completely legal. It came either in crushed leaf or ground leaf to a powder. There are some extracts but never tried em. There are different types of Kratom leaves with different "strengths". When the ground leaf I ordered came in, I put 2 teaspoons of the powder in a glass with some citrus V8. chugged it down. I can honestly say that I quit the pain meds right then and there. Zero withdrawal symptoms. Drank the mixture twice a day and then weened myself slowly off of that. Best move I ever made. Now Kratom does have some interesting properties that can be quite enjoyable even if not used for opiate withdrawal. For me, it depends on my mood on what it will do to me. If it's early in the day and I have energy... when I drink it I'll get that high energy. Not like tweaked out. Just smooth, talkative, ready to rock. And on the other hand if I take it later in the day or evening when I am winding down.. it'll chill me out. Honestly make it seem like I took 2-3 pain killers but not loopy, out off it, or drooly. ha. Even will give me the itch a little. Amazing stuff. Purchased me the lil capsule making deal and just cap the stuff so I don't have to drink it. (yeah drinking does suck. Its like drinking dirt. But when you're desperate to not have withdrawals.. I'll eat dirt) I got a few people interested in it just to try it out. They loved it. Much safer than drinking and driving.

From Wikipedia
"Kratom's pharmacology is primarily mediated by the alkaloids 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine. While these molecules share structural similarities to the psychedelics, there is no psychedelic activity or similarities in effects to such substances. Instead these alkaloids primarily interact with the adrenergic and opioid receptors. Accordingly, kratom is known to prevent or delay withdrawal symptoms in an opiate dependent individual, and it is often used to mitigate cravings thereafter. It can also be used for other medicinal purposes.

Kratom has been traditionally used for its stimulant effects in regions such as Malaysia, Thailand, and Indonesia, but was officially introduced to the Western world by ethnobotanists during the 19th century. Besides Kratom, in Southeast Asia and the Pacific Islands it also goes by the names krathom, ithang, biak biak, ketum, kakuam, and in southern regions, thom. In these areas kratom has a history of use by laborers and in folk medicine for opium dependence and diarrhea.

Of the two main active constituents, mitragynine has been studied more thoroughly than 7-hydroxymitragynine. At lower doses, mitragynine exhibits a yohimbine-like[clarification needed] binding to alpha-adrenergic receptors, as well as some binding to the delta opioid receptors. As doses increase, binding to delta receptors increases, and in yet higher doses, crossover to mu-opioid receptors occurs.[clarification needed]

7-hydroxymitragynine was only recently understood to be the main active ingredient. Limited animal research suggests it is a potent opiate agonist, but with a ceiling effect that limits the potential for respiratory depression and euphoria. No fatal overdose of kratom is known to have occurred.

One study of Thai users reported that kratom has subtle calming effects in low doses, changing over to mild stimulation in higher doses. Other anecdotal sources say that it may be a mild, caffeine-like stimulant in lower doses, but decreases the effect in higher doses, which is consistent with mitragynine's receptor binding profile. However, recent publications indicate that different alkaloids may be at work to achieve mild stimulation versus sedation: whereas higher concentrations of mitragynine are attributed to act as a anti-stimulant, 7-hydroxymitragynine appears to be a significant alkaloid for reducing stress associated with opioid craving.[1] Effects come on within five to ten minutes after use, and last for several hours, depending on individual physiology. The feeling has been described as subtly active, while the mind is described as calm.

Side effects, although rare, may include dry mouth, increased or decreased urination, loss of appetite, and nausea or vomiting. Possible side effects from long term use include anorexia and weight loss, insomnia, and dependence. Comprehensive scientific and clinical studies have yet to be conducted to establish the potential health risks associated with consistent long term consumption of kratom.
Young kratom tree

Kratom has recently become more known and used in Europe and North America where it has been prized[who?] for its applications to many conditions and ailments, primarily pain, depression, anxiety, and opiate withdrawal.

Macko, Weisbach and Douglas (1972) reported that mitragynine possesses pain threshold elevating and antitussive properties but no addictive properties"

 

[nickels]

I'm prescribed hydrocodone for pain and 10mg ever 3-4 hrs as needed for pain , well untill the last couple days I would only take one at bed time so I wouldent constantly waking due to disscomfornt

anyway lately pain has increased a good bit and I take one during the day and it strait out pisses me off , I mean aside for beings bit more aggitated and easly aggrivated with people , I'm just strait out fucking mean when I take this stuff!!

I feel like a mean dog just waiting for sombody to get close enough for me to bite , it's like I find myself looking for a reason to snap at sombody

tren and halo together doesn't even come close to making me this much of an asshole-a-sauraus

does anybody else have this issue?

or better yet can anybody recomend anything else? the dr mentioned OxyContin but I've see alot of people totally fucked up from that stuff granted it was from abuse

I think with certain substances the right amount is important. I bet if you tried a slightly higher dosage you might feel differently.

 

[Gravyv]

Hmm seems like theres a debate going on this thread. I don't mean to hijack this thread. But since there are some knowledgeable guys in this thread. I want to ask you guys whats your opinion on long term tramadol use? I don't want to get surgery so i've been taking tramadol for the past couple of months. And i'm going to talk to my doc about just staying on tramadol for long term pain relief.

 

[Lonnie Batt]

addicted

I'm prescribed hydrocodone for pain and 10mg ever 3-4 hrs as needed for pain , well untill the last couple days I would only take one at bed time so I wouldent constantly waking due to disscomfornt

anyway lately pain has increased a good bit and I take one during the day and it strait out pisses me off , I mean aside for beings bit more aggitated and easly aggrivated with people , I'm just strait out fucking mean when I take this stuff!!

I feel like a mean dog just waiting for sombody to get close enough for me to bite , it's like I find myself looking for a reason to snap at sombody

tren and halo together doesn't even come close to making me this much of an asshole-a-sauraus

does anybody else have this issue?

or better yet can anybody recomend anything else? the dr mentioned OxyContin but I've see alot of people totally fucked up from that stuf ff granted it was from abuse

can tell you that you are the way you are because of the various drugs that you are on,, I became addicted to codine the same exact way that you are taking then now.. I was in constant pain and refused to have the surgery that I ultimately had to relieve the pain I was in and due to avoiding the surgery I bacame seriously addicted and I have to say that it was the worst time I have ever had in my life.... You are already fighting aggression fom the AS and ,,yes the pain meds can make you irretaited also especially when they begin to wear off, and its not because of what happens due to the pain it becomes a problem because you are becoming addicted to the medication and your mental side is telling you that it needs more...Codine is a very powerful drug from a mental aspect because it is so easy to become addicted and very hard to get off of,,, I want to say to you PLEASE be careful because its a dangerous combination AS and codine and you may end up in a situation you may regret... I hope this helps..