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How much fat when dieting with higher carbs??

NEMSZ

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Alright guys so kinda long here but I’d appreciate you reading everything and giving some advice lol

I got some great input from a lot of you in my “Sugar thread” and I THOUGHT I was going to be able to take a chill approach to my goal so I could eat a little more freely etc and since my sugar habit wasn’t that bad, I leaned more to that route than what some guys were saying to just buckle down, hammer it out and get to my goal then just maintain and enjoy myself on occasion from there...

So a couple things happened since last week that changed my mind about my approach;

1) I saw Danieltx (I think that’s his handle name lol) post pics on his rebound and dude looks fucking awesome up 30+lbs and still lean/hard as a rock on that rebound which was my original plan to go with a super strict diet then slowly grow with a rebound...

2) I went to the beach on Sunday.. And I had TheOtherOne55’s post in my head the whole time “The feeling of looking the way I want out lasts the 5 minutes of mouth pleasure for that cake.” And boy did I feel that shit on Sunday.. I live in MIA and it’s beach weather all year, haven’t gone myself in like a year but went because 2 girl friends of mind invited me (and they’re pretty hot too) and it’s not that the beach is filled with a bunch of 6 pack having fitness models, because it’s not, the completely opposite actually.. You’ll see more hot girls than guys on any given day but not many people who stand out... And that was the problem for me.. I just looked like everybody else, like a guy who works out but eats cake too.. Lol

Sooooo, with that in mind and the knowledge I have about myself I just want to know how much fat some of you high carb dieters eat a day. I’m mainly concerned with heart health and hormone balance etc and I know fats are needed for that...

Reason I choose the higher carb and low fat approach is that I’ve tried low/no carb and it just makes me want to binge and deviate but when I have carb/protein (no fat) only meals, I feel pretty good and can deal perfectly until my next meal.. I just have to be strict on myself with the bullshit carbs too but I’ll deal with that, I’ll have TheOtherOne in the back of my mind lol (thanks bro)..

Main Carb Sources;

Sweet Potato
Jasmine Rice
Bananas

That’s what I mainly eat anyway but I’m open to other suggestions? I eat beans and other fruits too but don’t want to add thins unnecessarily.. So I’ll wait for more suggestions on the carb sources.

Main Protein sources;

Ground Elk
Grass fed beef (15/85)
Cod/Mahi Mahi
Whole Eggs
Egg white protein shakes
Chicken

Main Fat Sources;

Trace amounts from Meat and Eggs etc
Olive oil for any salads or for cooking (small amounts, 1 tbsp)
Avocados if I can have them

Again, open to suggestions in this area as I don’t know what’s ideal for health/function...

My current macros:

250g Protein
250-300g Carbs
100g Fats

And I maintain on that, so I figure if I cut 50-80g of fat out of the diet, I can create a decent calorie deficit and maybe I won’t get the results of PSMF in 3 weeks but it’ll keep me sane and not deviating and still reach my goal in maybe 8 weeks instead of killing myself in 3...

All suggestions are welcome and I may even start a log when I do this to help keep myself accountable lol... Thanks guys
 

musclefreak47

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I prefer no added fats only some from steak and omega 3..if i add fats extra fats just make me slugish and my digestion gets too slow
 

NEMSZ

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I prefer no added fats only some from steak and omega 3..if i add fats extra fats just make me slugish and my digestion gets too slow
Will trace fats from the meat/fish/eggs and some omegas be enough for the goal of heart health and hormone functions etc? How many grams a day do you consume in your Omega and trace amounts?
 

Joshua82

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You will get plenty of fats from your protein sources, if health is a big concern I would cut some of the fat from your protein by switching to more lean sources and replace them with things like ground flax, olive oil, walnuts, avacado etc

Personally I like to keep fat around 30-40g a day when dieting
 

hawkmoon

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If you are doing this to get shredded I'd drop all added fats if you have a requirement of high carbs.
You need to establish a deficit and if you are keeping the pro at 250 and the carbs at 300, the added fats gotta go.
You will get all you need from meats, eggs. You need to count those fats grams too and add to you total cal intake.

With no fat AT ALL and those other two macros (2200kcal) you are about where I usually am a month into contest prep.
 

TheOtherOne55

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Im sorry that my "5 minutes of joy" comment was ringing in your ear dude :LOL:

Honestly, i know you're racking your brain about this diet shit...but i would 100% hire a coach to do your nutrition man.
There are tons of good coaches who coach tons of non-competitors. They just want to look good naked and on the beach...that's it. And i think that's what you are looking for man. A coach takes the guess work out of your hands...he'll say "do this" and you do that and train and he makes changes. Simple as that.
 

luki7788

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I have always been a supporter of the high carb diet, whether it is building mass or reducing fat. When cutting, I keep the fat very low, even in the tip, zero fat from additional sources. While building mass I have maybe at the point where I eat about 7500 kcal 80g of fats, even counting those from rice, etc. I tried higher fats but I did not improve so quickly by cutting it, but while building mass and having, for example, 800g carbs and 150g of fat, I simply start to gain fat. Instead, I usually keep very high carbs of 1000-1100g a day and very low fat 50-60g and then I grow fast and keep my body fat low. And I weigh about 300 pounds for the offseason, so these fats in relation to my weight are really small
 

Tomgrass

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I will say opposite, if you claiming that you do bodybuilding and you can't make yourselves a diet just to look good, you have no idea of bodybuilding. Two pillars of BB : training and diet - you need to have some basic skills, simple as that. I am not talking diet to win nationals-beach body.
 

b-boy

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A calorie deficit is all you need to get lean, as long as protein is sufficient the rest doesn't matter.

People will argue the above point but study after study has proven it!
 

NEMSZ

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If you are doing this to get shredded I'd drop all added fats if you have a requirement of high carbs.
You need to establish a deficit and if you are keeping the pro at 250 and the carbs at 300, the added fats gotta go.
You will get all you need from meats, eggs. You need to count those fats grams too and add to you total cal intake.

With no fat AT ALL and those other two macros (2200kcal) you are about where I usually am a month into contest prep.
Sounds good, I’ll be evaluating along and I’ll lower carbs if I need to, not trying to be contest shape but I definitely want to be lean..

Out of curiosity where do your calories end up at the end of a prep right before competition??
 

madg

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A calorie deficit is all you need to get lean, as long as protein is sufficient the rest doesn't matter.

People will argue the above point but study after study has proven it!
Amen brother !
 

madg

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Sounds good, I’ll be evaluating along and I’ll lower carbs if I need to, not trying to be contest shape but I definitely want to be lean..

Out of curiosity where do your calories end up at the end of a prep right before competition??
For 90 kg at 5-6 % at 1,75 m i used to go as low as 1500-1800

Respect
 

NEMSZ

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Im sorry that my "5 minutes of joy" comment was ringing in your ear dude :LOL:

Honestly, i know you're racking your brain about this diet shit...but i would 100% hire a coach to do your nutrition man.
There are tons of good coaches who coach tons of non-competitors. They just want to look good naked and on the beach...that's it. And i think that's what you are looking for man. A coach takes the guess work out of your hands...he'll say "do this" and you do that and train and he makes changes. Simple as that.
Lmao DONT BE! I’m grateful and it made me think and reevaluate myself.. You were right..

And I wouldn’t mind hiring a coach at some point if I really needed it but I’d like to give it an honest try on my own before spending a couple hundred bucks a month (or whatever it costs, I honestly have no idea lol)

At the end of the day I feel it just comes down to being disciplined and following the plan like you all were saying in the other thread, sure a coach would probably give me more accountability as well as taking guess work out but I’d still like to try and accomplish it on my own...

And I think what I was racking my brain about the most was the difference in getting to my goal being strict vs being relaxed and eating freely... We all want to be that guy who can eat whatever and still get in shape lmao but that reality isn’t so for a lot of us..
 

NEMSZ

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For 90 kg at 5-6 % at 1,75 m i used to go as low as 1500-1800

Respect
Thanks for the insight, helps a lot since we’re actually about the same height lol you’re just significantly bigger than me lmao I think for me to get to 5-6% from where I am right now Id probably be around 72-75kg lol
 

TedDansen

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Alright guys so kinda long here but I’d appreciate you reading everything and giving some advice lol

I got some great input from a lot of you in my “Sugar thread” and I THOUGHT I was going to be able to take a chill approach to my goal so I could eat a little more freely etc and since my sugar habit wasn’t that bad, I leaned more to that route than what some guys were saying to just buckle down, hammer it out and get to my goal then just maintain and enjoy myself on occasion from there...

So a couple things happened since last week that changed my mind about my approach;

1) I saw Danieltx (I think that’s his handle name lol) post pics on his rebound and dude looks fucking awesome up 30+lbs and still lean/hard as a rock on that rebound which was my original plan to go with a super strict diet then slowly grow with a rebound...

2) I went to the beach on Sunday.. And I had TheOtherOne55’s post in my head the whole time “The feeling of looking the way I want out lasts the 5 minutes of mouth pleasure for that cake.” And boy did I feel that shit on Sunday.. I live in MIA and it’s beach weather all year, haven’t gone myself in like a year but went because 2 girl friends of mind invited me (and they’re pretty hot too) and it’s not that the beach is filled with a bunch of 6 pack having fitness models, because it’s not, the completely opposite actually.. You’ll see more hot girls than guys on any given day but not many people who stand out... And that was the problem for me.. I just looked like everybody else, like a guy who works out but eats cake too.. Lol

Sooooo, with that in mind and the knowledge I have about myself I just want to know how much fat some of you high carb dieters eat a day. I’m mainly concerned with heart health and hormone balance etc and I know fats are needed for that...

Reason I choose the higher carb and low fat approach is that I’ve tried low/no carb and it just makes me want to binge and deviate but when I have carb/protein (no fat) only meals, I feel pretty good and can deal perfectly until my next meal.. I just have to be strict on myself with the bullshit carbs too but I’ll deal with that, I’ll have TheOtherOne in the back of my mind lol (thanks bro)..

Main Carb Sources;

Sweet Potato
Jasmine Rice
Bananas

That’s what I mainly eat anyway but I’m open to other suggestions? I eat beans and other fruits too but don’t want to add thins unnecessarily.. So I’ll wait for more suggestions on the carb sources.

Main Protein sources;

Ground Elk
Grass fed beef (15/85)
Cod/Mahi Mahi
Whole Eggs
Egg white protein shakes
Chicken

Main Fat Sources;

Trace amounts from Meat and Eggs etc
Olive oil for any salads or for cooking (small amounts, 1 tbsp)
Avocados if I can have them

Again, open to suggestions in this area as I don’t know what’s ideal for health/function...

My current macros:

250g Protein
250-300g Carbs
100g Fats

And I maintain on that, so I figure if I cut 50-80g of fat out of the diet, I can create a decent calorie deficit and maybe I won’t get the results of PSMF in 3 weeks but it’ll keep me sane and not deviating and still reach my goal in maybe 8 weeks instead of killing myself in 3...

All suggestions are welcome and I may even start a log when I do this to help keep myself accountable lol... Thanks guys
I think your carb choices look good. I eat a lot of oats because they're so easy - 3 minutes in the microwave, and stir in some protein powder. For the meats I would prefer a leaner ground beef if you're going low fat. If it's grass fed though, that's good fat. It just depends how low you need to drop the fat. I'll typically use 96/4 and fry it up with coconut oil, because it's easier to cook with than olive.
 

NEMSZ

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I think your carb choices look good. I eat a lot of oats because they're so easy - 3 minutes in the microwave, and stir in some protein powder. For the meats I would prefer a leaner ground beef if you're going low fat. If it's grass fed though, that's good fat. It just depends how low you need to drop the fat. I'll typically use 96/4 and fry it up with coconut oil, because it's easier to cook with than olive.
Thanks for the input.. I used to eat a lot of oats too mixed with protein and a hint of honey for sweetness but I found that no matter what it would bloat me like crazy, that and regular potatoes always bloat the shit out of me for whatever reason...

And yes I’ve thought about that with the meat, I’ll be buying leaner ground beef for when I start this diet.. And yes it’s always grass fed from start to finish
 

TheOtherOne55

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Totally understand that.

I'm a big Dr. Scott fan and if you have not already, go pick up the Be Your Own Bodybuilding Coach book.
It's a BIBLE of bodybuilding information, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to learn your body.

I basically used that the past year to really dial in and get in tune to what works for me.
BUT EVEN IN THAT, a coach allows you to not sweat the small stuff...like your question of, "how much fat when dieting."
Because you're right, when you are dieting yourself, you are constantly evaluating your look, your fullness, how you feel, etc. SHould you do more cardio? Are you flat? Do you need less fat or more carbs? Stuff like that.
Yes, I definitely think you will be able to diet yourself down to a good bf and look good. BUT, you will rack your brain and might make a few missteps, nothing wrong with that...its all part of the game and learning yourself.

I really enjoy both sides. I love learning what my body handles well and what it responds to.
But at the same time, i like someone saying, "DO THIS" and just doing that and have that person take a look and make changes. It seems like lots of BBers are impulsive....but they thrive on structure. I heard Ron Partlow say that on Its Just Bodybuiling this week. And it makes sense. I go with the flow and just make decisions when I'm by myself....but i need a plan. Either way, i know you're going to dial it in and look good dude.




Lmao DONT BE! I’m grateful and it made me think and reevaluate myself.. You were right..

And I wouldn’t mind hiring a coach at some point if I really needed it but I’d like to give it an honest try on my own before spending a couple hundred bucks a month (or whatever it costs, I honestly have no idea lol)

At the end of the day I feel it just comes down to being disciplined and following the plan like you all were saying in the other thread, sure a coach would probably give me more accountability as well as taking guess work out but I’d still like to try and accomplish it on my own...

And I think what I was racking my brain about the most was the difference in getting to my goal being strict vs being relaxed and eating freely... We all want to be that guy who can eat whatever and still get in shape lmao but that reality isn’t so for a lot of us..
 

NEMSZ

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Totally understand that.

I'm a big Dr. Scott fan and if you have not already, go pick up the Be Your Own Bodybuilding Coach book.
It's a BIBLE of bodybuilding information, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to learn your body.

I basically used that the past year to really dial in and get in tune to what works for me.
BUT EVEN IN THAT, a coach allows you to not sweat the small stuff...like your question of, "how much fat when dieting."
Because you're right, when you are dieting yourself, you are constantly evaluating your look, your fullness, how you feel, etc. SHould you do more cardio? Are you flat? Do you need less fat or more carbs? Stuff like that.
Yes, I definitely think you will be able to diet yourself down to a good bf and look good. BUT, you will rack your brain and might make a few missteps, nothing wrong with that...its all part of the game and learning yourself.

I really enjoy both sides. I love learning what my body handles well and what it responds to.
But at the same time, i like someone saying, "DO THIS" and just doing that and have that person take a look and make changes. It seems like lots of BBers are impulsive....but they thrive on structure. I heard Ron Partlow say that on Its Just Bodybuiling this week. And it makes sense. I go with the flow and just make decisions when I'm by myself....but i need a plan. Either way, i know you're going to dial it in and look good dude.
Thanks for the positive reenforcement bro, means a lot... I’ll definitely check out that book... And totally understand you about the coach, I’ll evaluate myself after about 8 weeks and see how I do..

I may really just do a log, kinda how Elvia has his, with my day to day eating and training etc.. That way I have some accountability and input from experienced guys like you..

I decided to start on Monday as that’s when my blood test is for TRT and my doc likes me at relatively low numbers compared to what I see other docs prescribe, he wants me between 500-600, but I like the 1,000-1,200 range as I feel great and through bloodwork nothing at all is off... So I have to play with my dose to around 80mg for about 2-3 weeks before my blood draw to get those numbers and then I go back to my 150mg-200mg dose.. So I’m timing it to start my diet seriously and up my dose at the same time and I won’t have blood drawn for another 12-14 weeks so I have time to take full advantage of the hormonal help as well through this trial.. And also, gives me a couple days to say goodbye to the cookies and cake etc for a few months Lmao...
 

danieltx

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@NEMSZ - glad I could inspire you. Motivating others to reach their goals is just as rewarding for me as compliments on my physique.

I've never dieted on high carbs / low fat, so I'll leave that to others.

One thing I'd caution you - keep realistic expectations. My physique is the result of years of powerlifting and bodybuilding-specific training and eating, with the last 4 years in a row following the bulking / dieting / rebounding pattern to maximize gains.

I know your goal isn't to be a bodybuilder, but I say this so you don't get discouraged - many do when they diet down hard for the first time because the almost never has as much muscle as they thought they did. If you really diet yourself down to a legit 7% or less, you'll be in prime position to add whatever muscle you want and sculpt the physique you desire. It'll also show you that hard diets really aren't that hard - trust me, they get easier to do every year.
 

NEMSZ

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@NEMSZ - glad I could inspire you. Motivating others to reach their goals is just as rewarding for me as compliments on my physique.

I've never dieted on high carbs / low fat, so I'll leave that to others.

One thing I'd caution you - keep realistic expectations. My physique is the result of years of powerlifting and bodybuilding-specific training and eating, with the last 4 years in a row following the bulking / dieting / rebounding pattern to maximize gains.

I know your goal isn't to be a bodybuilder, but I say this so you don't get discouraged - many do when they diet down hard for the first time because the almost never has as much muscle as they thought they did. If you really diet yourself down to a legit 7% or less, you'll be in prime position to add whatever muscle you want and sculpt the physique you desire. It'll also show you that hard diets really aren't that hard - trust me, they get easier to do every year.
Hey bro, thanks for your input and advice...

How is it that you diet before getting to that super lean/dry condition? I know you posted about in those final weeks getting to 5% you go down to no carbs or fats for a few days in a row, and you go low on the calories, but what’s the diet, macro wise, before that?

And yes bro, completely understand your advice, I’m very aware of the hard work and time that went into building your physique, I’m not delusional to think I’m going to look anything like you in a couple months, or even in just a couple years (if that was my goal).. I was simply referring to the method you use and how I think (obviously from what I’ve seen with you and some others) that it’s the most efficient way to gain muscle and keep in shape and make noticeable improvements over time.. Obviously what I was talking about in the sugar thread isn’t the best way AT ALL and as I told TheOtherOne, I was just hoping I could be one of those guys that puts in the work, can eat whatever (within reason) and still get to my goal, but I think I’m selling myself short going that route after really thinking about it..

And especially where I’m at now after the very long lay off I had because of injury and other variables, I know very well that me getting absolutely shredded would probably be around 160lbs.. Now if I wanted to be a bodybuilder that would probably crush me lol but luckily it only puts me about 20lbs from my goal and I want to hover between 8-10% bodyfat, nothing too crazy lean.. My goal is to be impressive with my shirt off, but even more impressive with athletics and BJJ/Kickboxing as that’s what I really enjoy.. Thanks again for your input bro..
 

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