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If Daily Pinning, Why Not Test Base Instead of Prop?

hevi-head

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Most board sponsors can’t make suspension without it hurting like hell or falling out of solution.
And/or it’s got that stinking ass guaiacol in it. You could smell that shit on my breath after I pinned it lol. Ex girlfriend brought up the smell, she could tell every time I used it as soon as she got in my car when I picked her up to go train.
 

qbkilla

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Can't prop BE taken EOD (tren ace too)? Or is that going to fluctuate too much?
 

Reload

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Most say EOD is fine with the Prop ester but I just stick to ED.
Part of my daily routine.
 

LK3

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i used tne for years, it was always my test of choice.
that said it sure can be much more feely then test with any other ester.
the solvent i used to use is no longer around and i wont use eo or guac so no more tne.

gear with an ester is so much easier and less feely so idk if i would use it too regularly anymore even if i could make it.

i use tp, te, tc, tpp,ta, twhatever basically ed. just adjust a lil for ester if you wana be nitpicky.
 

cmryan

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Can't prop BE taken EOD (tren ace too)? Or is that going to fluctuate too much?
Yes technically it can. It’ll obviously create a bigger peak and trough going EOD compared to every day but most guys deem it acceptable.

I need to dig up a study I found a while back examining the 1/2 life of prop and enanthate. I think it showed prop peaked 12 hours post injection then it’s half life was around 20 hours afterwards.
 

qbkilla

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Yes technically it can. It’ll obviously create a bigger peak and trough going EOD compared to every day but most guys deem it acceptable.

I need to dig up a study I found a while back examining the 1/2 life of prop and enanthate. I think it showed prop peaked 12 hours post injection then it’s half life was around 20 hours afterwards.
I'll probably switch to Ed to be safe. I wonder if a shot of tne in the am or before bed would help with recovery? Seems like guys usually just use it pre hoping for a increase in strength.
 

cmryan

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I'll probably switch to Ed to be safe. I wonder if a shot of tne in the am or before bed would help with recovery? Seems like guys usually just use it pre hoping for a increase in strength.
I definitely wouldn’t use TNE before bed. I’d be too concerned about the stimulatory effect during sleep. Morning I think would be a much better option.

I would suspect that it would be out of your system by evening, but I’ve read several guys have liked suspension/TNE daily. Does seem like it would get annoying over time though. If it could be done subq I‘d think it would be much more feasible over time.
 

fredmac82

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For those of you doing daily Test, why not just use test base instead of propionate? I know for the folks doing the daily regimen, it always seems to be prop. Is there a reason why?
Every Test base I have tried hurt like hell, so I stay away from it. So it's easier to stick with daily prop. I actually prefer daily Test E at this point. Gives me more flexibility in my opinion.
 

danieltx

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I'll probably switch to Ed to be safe. I wonder if a shot of tne in the am or before bed would help with recovery? Seems like guys usually just use it pre hoping for a increase in strength.
This is a strategy in sports where there's random, on-the-spot drug testing with officials showing up with the theory they're unlikely to be tested at that time - Olympics, MMA, etc.
 

Type-IIx

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Pharmacokinetic Data for Testosterone Propionate vs. Testosterone Suspension

@cmryan

Testosterone propionate

Testosterone-propionate-vs-endogenous-T-PKPD-Graph.ProM.png

[13]


Observations:
  • 25 mg i.m. only minimally suppressive of endogenous T
  • rapid dissolution of (de-esterified) radiolabeled T from the propionate ester


Testosterone-propionate-PK-Table.ProM.png
[13]

  • mostly in agreement (Subject 1 particularly) with Nieschlag & Behre: Testosterone esters pk.ProM.jpg

    (t1/2: 0.8 day [19.2 hr] & MRT: 1.5 days [36 hr])

Testosterone suspension

An aqueous suspension of testosterone crystals injected intramuscularly in doses of 20 mg. provides a satisfactory replacement therapy in male hypogonadism. The apparent period of effective supply of testosterone from each injection is from four to seven days. [14]

Biphasic delivery profile:

The early peak concentration of testosterone is attributed to absorption of testosterone in solution from the formulation after IM administration. The second and subsequent peaks are attributed to dissolution of testosterone from the solid material in the suspension with similar results being reported in humans (Misra, et al., 1997). [15]

Testosterone-suspension-PK-Table.ProM.png [15]

0.15 mg/kg aqueous testosterone suspension (75 mg/mL) in horses; mean weight 534.1 kg (i.e., mean dose 80 mg):

t1/2 (half life): median 33.0 hr (39 hr terminal), min 16.3 hr, max 56.8 hr
Tmax: median 6.0 hr, min 1.0 hr, max 408 hr (appearing between 1 - 2 hr for most horses)
Tmax: median 6.0 hr, min 1.0 hr, max 408 hr (appearing between 1 - 2 hr for most horses)
Cmax: median 646 pg/mL, min 302 pg/mL, max 1308 pg/mL
Tlast: median 336 hr, min 216 hr, max 672 hr
[15]

Testosterone-suspension-PK-Graph.ProM.png
[15]

From Kerr, Chapter Twelve:

If "making weight"... the aqueous testosterone... might be considered... Daily or every other day injections are used with no gain in the fluid weight. No one enjoys being injected on a daily basis so this medication is limited to the last week, two at most. As the solution is water-based, a very small caliber hypodermic needle...pain-free. If the daily injections are desired and recommended to the patient, I would probably recommend 100 to 200 mg. per day of the aqueous testosterone solution...

TNE bloodwork: [withheld; off-site reference]

__________
References:
[13] Shinohara, Y., Fujioka, M., & Baba, S. (1988). Pharmacokinetic studies of testosterone propionate using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry/selected Ion monitoring. Biological Mass Spectrometry, 16(1-12), 241–244. doi:10.1002/bms.1200160144
[14] SEVRINGHAUS, E. L., & SIKKEMA, S. (1946). THERAPY WITH AQUEOUS SUSPENSIONS OF TESTOSTERONE. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 6(6), 415–419. doi:10.1210/jcem-6-6-415
[15] MOELLER, B. C., SAMS, R. A., GUINJAB-CAGMAT, J., SZABO, N. J., COLAHAN, P., & STANLEY, S. D. (2011). An interlaboratory study of the pharmacokinetics of testosterone following intramuscular administration to Thoroughbred horses. Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology and Therapeutics, 34(6), 588–593. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2885.2011.01277.x
 

SWOLNUTZ

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Pharmacokinetic Data for Testosterone Propionate vs. Testosterone Suspension

@cmryan

Testosterone propionate

View attachment 160464

[13]


Observations:
  • 25 mg i.m. only minimally suppressive of endogenous T
  • rapid dissolution of (de-esterified) radiolabeled T from the propionate ester


View attachment 160463
[13]

  • mostly in agreement (Subject 1 particularly) with Nieschlag & Behre:View attachment 160462

    (t1/2: 0.8 day [19.2 hr] & MRT: 1.5 days [36 hr])

Testosterone suspension



Biphasic delivery profile:



View attachment 160460[15]

0.15 mg/kg aqueous testosterone suspension (75 mg/mL) in horses; mean weight 534.1 kg (i.e., mean dose 80 mg):


[15]

View attachment 160459
[15]

From Kerr, Chapter Twelve:



TNE bloodwork: [withheld; off-site reference]

__________
References:
[13] Shinohara, Y., Fujioka, M., & Baba, S. (1988). Pharmacokinetic studies of testosterone propionate using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry/selected Ion monitoring. Biological Mass Spectrometry, 16(1-12), 241–244. doi:10.1002/bms.1200160144
[14] SEVRINGHAUS, E. L., & SIKKEMA, S. (1946). THERAPY WITH AQUEOUS SUSPENSIONS OF TESTOSTERONE. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 6(6), 415–419. doi:10.1210/jcem-6-6-415
[15] MOELLER, B. C., SAMS, R. A., GUINJAB-CAGMAT, J., SZABO, N. J., COLAHAN, P., & STANLEY, S. D. (2011). An interlaboratory study of the pharmacokinetics of testosterone following intramuscular administration to Thoroughbred horses. Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology and Therapeutics, 34(6), 588–593. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2885.2011.01277.x
That double peak at 22 days is quite strange...and for suspension? Very bizarre
 

Type-IIx

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Extremely but I've seen that graph before. I believe the authors posited that it could be due to the crystallized test not being fully dissolved upon initial administration.
That's what it is, exactly.
 

w8tlifterty

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i used tne for years, it was always my test of choice.
that said it sure can be much more feely then test with any other ester.
the solvent i used to use is no longer around and i wont use eo or guac so no more tne.

gear with an ester is so much easier and less feely so idk if i would use it too regularly anymore even if i could make it.

i use tp, te, tc, tpp,ta, twhatever basically ed. just adjust a lil for ester if you wana be nitpicky.
Your suspension back around 13’ or 14’ I think it was is what I’m referring too. Best trt feeling I have ever had using both the oil and water based. It didn’t matter. Never replicated it using other TNE from sponsors.

The solvents are the problem, especially that G shit.
 

Type-IIx

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Taking into consideration the pharmacokinetic data and comparing/contrasting that, along with my personal experience with and understanding of test suspension (and TNE), I suppose I'd say that:

test suspension/TNE > test prop if:
A. you are one (like most) that sees high peak T concentrations between 1 - 2 hr consistently after the test susp/TNE bolus, and performance effects (rapid strength increase induced by likewise rapid increase in blood T) are useful to you
B. you have access to a PIP-free test suspension/TNE solution & handle guiacol (if applicable) well

test prop > test suspension/TNE if:
C. you are not one that sees high peak T concentrations between 1 - 2 hr consistently after the test susp/TNE bolus, or performance effects (rapid strength increase induced by likewise rapid increase in blood T) are not useful to you
D. you do not have access to a PIP-free test suspension/TNE solution or handle guiacol (if applicable) well

with consideration for the increased infection risk attendant to (especially multi-use vials) water-based test susp vs. TNE

assuming daily injections.
 

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