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IFBB Pro Mike Wheels Shares Details Of Heart Damage Caused By Steroid Abuse

K1

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I hate to bash Kiwi because he was an overall really good guy...But he did the same shit before he died, blaming the gear and everything else under the sun except for his rec drug habit that was leaps and bounds more insane then his gear protocols.

Like Luki said you know what the fuck you are risking when you get deep into this sport...Fuck most gymrats know now with the amount of info out there that their bullshit, heavy dose cycles are costing them health. That's a big thing where genetics comes in I think...Deciding how much your body can safely handle. So goes along with what bboy said about these guys running Ramy cycles, when they're nowhere near his level of size, developement or genetic ability to process the amounts needed for that massive size!

Shit, my heart's fucked and I could give a CVS list of reasons...When the main one is: I didn't keep my shit in check throughout life to be able to safely monitor things the way they should be. AAS, Slin, HGH, Recs, Booze, BP, Diet, etc, etc, etc...WTF can narrow it down to one thing when you aren't consistently on point with your labs and you're playing lab rat with your body?!
 

maldorf

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He did. Imagine multiple narrowed and/or blocked arteries, dehydrated from contest prep which thickens blood which may already be thick, posing hard/squeezing and holding your breath. Not surprised he passed out. Unfortunately that could be explained away/rationalized as a side effect from contest prep. That's why it never hurts to get checked out.

Dallas' situation was the exception and not the rule but it still makes a good case for getting cardiac tests done at a much younger age if you're in this game, especially at a high level of drug use/competition.
Does anyone remember what he said about that incident? Wondering what cause he contributed the passing out to.
 

maldorf

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I hate to bash Kiwi because he was an overall really good guy...But he did the same shit before he died, blaming the gear and everything else under the sun except for his rec drug habit that was leaps and bounds more insane then his gear protocols.

Like Luki said you know what the fuck you are risking when you get deep into this sport...Fuck most gymrats know now with the amount of info out there that their bullshit, heavy dose cycles are costing them health. That's a big thing where genetics comes in I think...Deciding how much your body can safely handle. So goes along with what bboy said about these guys running Ramy cycles, when they're nowhere near his level of size, developement or genetic ability to process the amounts needed for that massive size!

Shit, my heart's fucked and I could give a CVS list of reasons...When the main one is: I didn't keep my shit in check throughout life to be able to safely monitor things the way they should be. AAS, Slin, HGH, Recs, Booze, BP, Diet, etc, etc, etc...WTF can narrow it down to one thing when you aren't consistently on point with your labs and you're playing lab rat with your body?!
Yes. When someone uses steroids it's not as if he is running a controlled experiment like would be done on a lab rat. There are so many different variables that can affect the health outcome, even above and beyond genetics. Not to discount genetics because I think they are very important. Very difficult to narrow down something like heart disease to one cause. In most cases it's a combination of factors. In someone as young as Dallas I think it becomes a bit easier to narrow down.
 

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I read information about the dallas biopsy, all his organs were 4-5 times the normal size of a person .. like a horse.
 

Kaladryn

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There are lots of others, there is a strong link between insulin, not just insulin resistance, and heart disease.
 

Kaladryn

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That's not entirely true. He had blocked arteries. The question with him was if he had any symptoms and ignored them? The Calcium CT/Calcium Score test that I spoke about would have revealed all of this, HOWEVER it isn't common for a 25, 26, 27 year old to get that test done.
Remember that plaque takes a long time to calcify and it doesn't have to be calcified to cause a heart attack.
 

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One big factor today is how guys are on all year long. Back in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up I'm pretty sure most guys cycled on and off.
people don't want to come off. i was guilty of it too. but you can still be on certain compounds and grow just not at the same rate as a full blown blast in off season. but returning to baseline trt and running a some gh /slin and staying on top of blood work will work. certain peds should be reserved to cruise phases so one can keep growing and mentally feel like they are always on.

i used to think you must be on full tilt all times to grow, yes you will grow better but systemic fatigue kicks after 16 or so weeks for most and than your just pinning for no reason other than to hold size. and funny you don't need much to hold your gains. off season should just be test and anabolic of choice . gh and lotta good food. save the harsh stuff for prep 8 -10 weeks out. i really think we can do this long term with peds and be healthy.

another thing is guys are actually lasting longer in the sport and that adds up to the years being on peds. start in your early 20s and get out in your early 30s. your body is more resilient at a that age.
 

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I don't want to be rude but this is classic bullshit. Wise after the injury, he suddenly became healthy and warns others. How would he not know what bodybuilding believes and that it has nothing to do with health - if you are more lucky it will affect you less.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing to do with it, but I hate this kind of talk. This is the price of being above average. There is nothing in life for free, and he writes as if he didn't realize it before.
The substance of what he said was completely accurate though. Very high insulin doses and a coach who doesn't like questions are both very bad things.
 

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Older guys may have learned and wisened up perhaps but it used to be that no one, or almost no one, did any health monitoring whatsoever, including or perhaps even especially, the pros. Because there simply was a lack of knowledge. Perhaps I'm wrong. Did Flex Wheeler or Tom Prince do frequent blood work and check their BP often? Or check their morning blood glucose? I highly doubt it.
Now the kids coming up hiring these new-school coaches appear to be doing blood work and many appear to be getting into protective drugs like ARBs from the start. It's another new selling point for coaches, that they demand health monitoring, and this is mostly good.

Does Milos demand blood work or other ways to monitor health? Does he ask his clients to use a glucose monitor, especially to see what GH is doing to glucose? Milos is the insulin king and Phil Viz says any coach who works with insulin and who doesn't do glucose monitoring doesn't know wtf they are doing lol. I'd be curious to know. I kind of suspect Milos mostly doesn't but could be totally wrong.
This is a key point. We didn't have access to the same kind of health information in the past that we now have access to. You couldn't simply go on Instagram and follow 30 different health accounts back then with excellent information on how to stay healthy. Nobody took CoQ10 or Vitamin D/K back in the day because nobody knew about them.
 

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I was honestly curious what everyone’s take on this was going to be.

End result to this imo is that, you’re a grown ass man and you know what you’re getting into when you live the lifestyle..but I highly doubt it’s all Insulin that got him in that position. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

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I believe if more of these guys came off in more of a caring and consultative type tone (it could still be a serious tone) it would be received better. Much of the time it's "it's my trainers fault and this drug specifically that did it!" and that just doesn't go over well.

We certainly are all grown men (and I'm a pretty extreme libertarian at heart) but it would be helpful if some of these guys continued to speak up but more in a manner of why and how they got in the situation they are in. Show some appreciation and empathy that in your 20's and 30's they understand the mindset of going "all in" but with the idea that things change as you age and you should start thinking about that now, how there are snakes in the industry and you need to do your own due diligence, etc. You can do all of this in a very serious manner that I think more people would receive.
 

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I just dont really like the "blame everything and everyone else but yourself" type of attitude.
Race car drivers know they are risking their life when they hop in the car...no one is FORCING them.
And this guy took insulin, no one held him down and forced him. Yeah, there may be some evidence that shows that insulin levels can put your heart more at risk, but no...you took a shit ton of gear and you just happened to be one of dudes who didn't have the genetics to be "OK" now. That's just how it is. You knew the risk, you took it anyway and that's life.

Yes there are gym rats in every gym who don't read a thiiiing about gear and its side effects. If something is truly your lifestyle, you have done at least some level of research. if you are competitive level dude, you've done SOME READING online and know the health effects. You might want to turn your head and not pay attention to them, but you know they exist. High risk, high reward type hoppy/lifestyle.
 

maldorf

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Times have changed over the past 30 years. In the past we really didn't hear back from survivors of steroid related diseases. They either died or they survived and just went into the shadows. The only case I remember was Lyle Alzado, and he was fringe.

In the past we heard from well known bodybuilding figures saying things like " show me the bodies". At the time I fully believed that fool. Young guys are easily influenced.
 

MR. BMJ

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I think it's hard to pinpoint just one thing as the blame when you live this type of drug-induced lifestyle, especially as we age. There are too many unanswered questions in order to give an opinion on what occurred. I think to pinpoint it on just insulin is a bit premature, though it may have been part of the puzzle.

My concerns and questions would be:

History of BP? And, if it was high, did you take anything to address it....not just when on pre-contest periods, but off-season. Did you check it at all?

How was your diet, not just during prep, but off-season. If you are gaining that much size, you are probably putting down a lot of food...was it healthy food?

How much orals did he take? Even small doses of orals effect lipids with a lot of users.

How often did he he get lipids checked....and did he do anything to combat or improve them if out of whack....both during prep and off-season.

Family hx?

How much cardio each week...both off-season and contest prep....especially as he aged?

Was he taking meds to combat BP or improve lipids? If not, was he at least taking some of the supplements that guys like DC has talked about?

Rec drugs? Any history?

And many others questions.

I agree with many others....you are in control of your own life and nobody is forcing you to live this way, or take any drug from a coach. I know it's a staple in Milos's style of prep, but did he even ever talk to him about it? If he didn't like it, why not change to somebody else?

Ugh....he's a grown ass man.

My sympathies for his recovery, he has a second chance on life regardless now....
 

Kaladryn

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Everyone is making so many assumptions and there is so much bad logic.

In response to BMJ above:

1. It sounds to me like his doctor told him exactly what the issue was and it was the insulin.
2. Who cares about what his other issues were, if was other issues that would have been apparent to whoever treated him.
3. Diet doesn't mean shit really, it's more genetics for CAD when you talking about the heart. Plus he is going to be MASSIVELY insulin resistant (aka type II diabetes) from taking all that slin for sure.
4. Lipids? You are fooling yourself, lipids, and managing lipids, doesn't mean jack shit unless you already have CAD, studies prove this. I mean we don't even know if he had CAD, lipids have nothing to do with this.
5. Family history, doctor would have taken this into consideration, this is literally the first thing they do.
6. Cardio isn't going to prevent this.
7. Again, "improving lipids" does nothing in people without CAD.

Coaches AND SPORTS have a responsibility to protect athletes, at least to some extent. This is more heavily ingrained in more civilized cultures (European for example) than in American culture. The fact that bodybuilding doesn't do anything to protect the health of its athletes is a big reason why it will never go "mainstream" in its current state (let's face it, if it wasn't for the "dark side" of bodybuilding, it would be huge, media coverage, tv, etc).

Coaches that don't protect their athletes are going to start going down here at some point, I would guess we are on the cusp of massive legal action.
 

MR. BMJ

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Everyone is making so many assumptions and there is so much bad logic.

In response to BMJ above:

1. It sounds to me like his doctor told him exactly what the issue was and it was the insulin.
2. Who cares about what his other issues were, if was other issues that would have been apparent to whoever treated him.
3. Diet doesn't mean shit really, it's more genetics for CAD when you talking about the heart. Plus he is going to be MASSIVELY insulin resistant (aka type II diabetes) from taking all that slin for sure.
4. Lipids? You are fooling yourself, lipids, and managing lipids, doesn't mean jack shit unless you already have CAD, studies prove this. I mean we don't even know if he had CAD, lipids have nothing to do with this.
5. Family history, doctor would have taken this into consideration, this is literally the first thing they do.
6. Cardio isn't going to prevent this.
7. Again, "improving lipids" does nothing in people without CAD.

Coaches AND SPORTS have a responsibility to protect athletes, at least to some extent. This is more heavily ingrained in more civilized cultures (European for example) than in American culture. The fact that bodybuilding doesn't do anything to protect the health of its athletes is a big reason why it will never go "mainstream" in its current state (let's face it, if it wasn't for the "dark side" of bodybuilding, it would be huge, media coverage, tv, etc).

Coaches that don't protect their athletes are going to start going down here at some point, I would guess we are on the cusp of massive legal action.
Those were just questions to evaluate his history, they were not stating a cause. I agree with some of what you wrote, but question some of it as well....I'm not sure if you read or watched something I haven't on all this? If so disregard, but there just wasn't that much info shared (from the OP and the IG link where he talked about it) except him promoting for people to put their health #1, and to ask questions from their trainers....and that he mentioned steroid abuse and insulin putting him over. I think i'll still keep my stance on it being multi-factorial than just one thing....'at this point.'

1) It doesn't mention anything about what the doctors stated, you are assuming that is what the doctor stated. All we know is that he had a heart attack from what i've read....nothing of what could have lead to it. He never didn't mention anything about "the doctor did this and thinks this...."

2) Well, if he had elevated BP for years and clogged arteries, I think that would be important to know and could lead to a heart attack.

3) I must have missed the part him stating he was Type-2 diabetic, or are you assuming? I know guys who are not diabetic and have taken that amount of insulin and more...and no, i'm not promoting it...I don't even like slin. 30iu (10iu TID) insulin humalog/humulin-r was pretty standard 10-15 years ago, even from some of the 'safer' coach's out there if they felt it was needed. Not saying diabetes isn't involved, but he hasn't stated whether he is or isn't. I guess i'll just have to agree to disagree with you on "Diet doesn't mean shit...." IMO, it would play a huge roll in heart health, especially if he was taking drugs that aren't heart healthy at the same time. IMO, they are a synergistic negative effect on heart health. I'm sure he is insulin resistant to some degree, i'll agree on that, as an assumption. We don't even know how long he was taking slin, and at the stated amounts.....2 weeks, 6 weeks, 10 weeks, longer? Hence why I think more info needs to be known.

4 and 7) I know lipid research can be controversial, but again, we don't even know what caused his heart attack, or how he has abused AAS. If he is on compounds that drop HDL into single digits and drive LDL/TG's up, along with other markers, for most of the months out of the year, that can't be good for the heart, especially if he has hypertension. That was the point of my questions above was to gather more history on his health, use/abuse and anything else to put him at risk....and I never stated insulin wasn't a factor.

I'd have to disagree with you on a grown man, one who has been around for awhile competing, not taking the time to learn what he is putting in his body. I feel the coach's should also have some sort of 'care' in all this as well, but if a coach wants me to take X amount of something I am not comfortable with, I alone have the choice to go that route or not. I'd damn sure not take something unless I knew it's actions and possible sides effects. It sounds like he already knew all the possible side effects and what could come with it, he even mentioned steroid dot com as a good source, so if he knew this info from reading about it, why did he continue the course?
 

TheOtherOne55

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Coaches have the responsibility to protect athletes, but let's stop pretending that people are completely unaware of the health effects of gear. If anything it's overblown by the media. That excuse COULD HAVE been used if most people believed gear had no affects toward one's health at all. But no, the public has been scared into believe gear kills u and has terrible side effects....these guys aren't completely clueless. They are taking the risk. "Oh, the coach led me down the dangerous road and I had nooo idea if this were bad or not" does not work here.

There is no "right amount" of insulin for whoever this coach is. Im sure he had some of his athletes take way more and some take way less. Its a shame that 30iu a day has convinced this guy that it caused his heart problems, but in reality it was probably a bunch of stuff.
 

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This has been discussed a lot here, but Kaladryn's comment saying he was "massively insulin resistant from that amount of insulin." Lots here say it's not really true as a rule, though I haven't analyzed data from a ton of insulin users.
And if it is true, does GH cause more or less insulin resistance than actual insulin? Any opinions? Luki has said IR doesn't really have much to do with exogenous insulin per se. It stands to reason that more insulin means potentially more resistance. Milos also only prescribes Humalog around marathon workouts so it's not active round the clock.

I know Chad Nicholls claims insulin stops working at all very quickly, so he recommends it only at a low dose a few times a week. I don't think it stops working quickly where you just have to keep escalating dose. If it was true diabetics would quickly die.
 

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In this current age, I find it ridiculous that any athlete, male or female, with access to google, has the moral authority to blame a coach for unheathty drugs protocols. These people are suffering side effects that they know can occur, they are not poor victims who are scammed, although I am sure that many gurus do not want their clients to be well informed.
 

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