Is there any truth to Dave Palumbo's Cardio fact

[earch]

right now my favorite cardio is slamming down some yohimbine and pinning GH peptides then 30 mins later walking on a treadmill at 6:30am at an incline watching ESPN for 45 mins.

 

[midwest11]

:lightbulb:respect dave alot has alot of good theories

 

[ryanbCXG]

Fuel consumption is not a binary process. It is not off or on. At any given time of any moment throughout the day your body is relying on different sources of fuel for different energy demands and different organs.

Even if it was, I'd still tell someone that it matters very very little whether you get on a treadmill three times a day for 20 minutes versus one time a day for 60. In the bigger scheme of things, the difference will be completely negligible, and might even favor the shorter bursts. Don't think about what your body is burning for energy. It's just a waste of time. Instead, just use up energy and then focus on what energy you are consuming during the day and what hormones you are manipulating during that energy consumption.

Another thing. Glycogen stores take a long long time to burn through. I think people way over estimate how easy it is to deplete them. But the thing is, depending on your body, that glycogen might purposefully be saved in favor of fat utilization and/or protein use. So again, you might think you've drained it all, but your body started holding onto it for a few different reasons (one is the brain prefers glucose and the brain gets what it wants).

It also matters greatly what level of work you are doing. If you can talk while you're doing it, your body will be able to provide a steady stream of energy through beta-oxidation of fatty acids. If you start working in the range where you are not able to have a conversation you are starting to push yourself into the anaerobic glycolytic pathway, which as the name suggests, means you will need to have some glycogen on hand to use for energy.

But even then, getting caught up in what your body is using at any particular time for energy is missing the overall point. What you should be focused on is the overall amount of energy used period. I'm not going to go into epoc (post exercise oxygen consumption) because it is largely up for debate how important that is. Ultimately what matters is that you are burning as many calories as possible, regardless of the fuel source (and please don't get lost in the "cardio will eat all your muscle away in just three sessions!!!" crowd).

But the first most important thing you should be doing is monitoring what your hormonal signals within your body is doing with the food you are continuing to eat at this time. I'm not talking about androgens here, although they certainly benefit us. I'm talking about insulin and I'm asking it to shut the hell up.

More important than whether you are burning fat in the first 20 minutes of your cardio workout is the idea of what are you doing with the energy coming into your system? What kind of hormonal signals are you sending to your body?

Even a solid cardio workout at best will burn about 300-450 calories, and that can be undone with little effort by not only consuming extra calories, but more importantly, activating your fat storage hormones and telling the body it's time to put away for the "Winter".

So if you're still with me, OP. Do cardio when you can. Do as much as you can do with the time you have. If you are concerned about fat loss and have a lot to lose, concern yourself less with energy utilization and more with energy consumption, and hormonal manipulation. Most of here already know that cardio is great for the heart, it gives us a little edge in the leanness department, but that diet will almost always dictate how we look and feel.

Now go do 20 minutes of cardio and kick some ass.

Well articulated

 

[kscowboy]

Ask John Meadows how much cardio he did to get on stage for the NORTH AMERICANS!!! You will shit your pants to learn its probably 1/2 to 50% less than you think. People in my gym do 5 times more than he did and look "normal" all year long!! DIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DOLFAN]

What Future Freak said in his post is spot on.

 

[mountaindog1]

I didn't do any cardio for Masters Nats or NA. I read someone say suck it up and train fasted...well I am on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. If you want to burn fat, focus on building muscle. Take the time you are doing cardio, and TRAIN. Fuel your workouts so you can actually train like an animal, instead of just "making it through" them, and you will lose more fat than you thought possible. cardio is great for CV health, but for fat loss....don't buy the hype.

JM

 

[ritchie]

The joy of being an ecto and not having to do that shit, lol!!!

 

[Stayinfit]

sooo

I didn't do any cardio for Masters Nats or NA. I read someone say suck it up and train fasted...well I am on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. If you want to burn fat, focus on building muscle. Take the time you are doing cardio, and TRAIN. Fuel your workouts so you can actually train like an animal, instead of just "making it through" them, and you will lose more fat than you thought possible. cardio is great for CV health, but for fat loss....don't buy the hype.

JM

Am I assuming you train pretty fast with short rest periods? That would definitly get the heart rate going. Clean diet and fast training.

 

[Pbfanatic321]

My coach makes me do 3 sessions of cardio a week at 30 minutes each, however we are still trying to put on some mass here, not cutting yet.

 

[negaburn9]

Just lift and do your cardio fasted first thin in the morning....you will be burning fat and won't have to worry about all the logistics

i worry about losing muscle doing fasted cardio

 

[Magnum]

We all burn calories 24/7 even while we sleep. So if we are walking we are burning calories if we walk faster we more calories at a faster rate and so on. To say that the first twenty minutes of cardio is pretty much useless is false. It's all calories in the end.

 

[mountaindog1]

We all burn calories 24/7 even while we sleep. So if we are walking we are burning calories if we walk faster we more calories at a faster rate and so on. To say that the first twenty minutes of cardio is pretty much useless is false. It's all calories in the end.

Agreed - and in the long run weight training will have a much greater effect on metabolism than cardio...I think we all know that in our hearts, but have a hard time accepting it because of all the dogma around cardio being such a good fat burner..

JM

 

[Bad Fox]

Agreed - and in the long run weight training will have a much greater effect on metabolism than cardio...I think we all know that in our hearts, but have a hard time accepting it because of all the dogma around cardio being such a good fat burner..

JM

Ok I get that. So its just normal protocol then that after the workout replenish glyco and protein? In other words.... no hour or 2 of fast after workout correct?


I think im going to have to drop my weight percentages way down to accomplish that kind of calorie burn in a workout. No wonder i retain fat. Im constantly dumping carbs in me during my workout. Albeit I do lean more towards power training than being as lean as possible. But I sure would like to take a little more off the midsection.

 

[kingpeon]

Dave states that the real fat burning dont start till 20 minutes into the cardio. Is it true?

I am so bored by cardio that I was thinking about breaking it up into 3 times 20 minute session or 3 - 30 minutes sessions. But if daves theory is true that would be worthless.

Yep, he's right. The first 20 minutes or so is immediately available blood glucose, muscle glycogen and amino acids from your own muscle being converted to glucose.

Once all blood glucose is burned, not from muscle source, then and only then will you burn free fatty acids.

 

[FutureFreak]

Cardio is a tool.

You don't always have to use this tool and it is NOT mandatory.

If you stay in good shape and are not lazy on your nutrition in off-season.

You can start your prep earlier -- as in, farther out than you LOOK and simply 'milk' training and dieting and strive to reach the best condition you can WITHOUT cardio.

I have done this as many of others and its great. You might throw in cardio a few times a week for reasons of general cardiovascular health, training stamina benefits, more hunger for refeeds etc..


People just dont stay lean enough, nor start their prep out far enough, OR are too afraid NOT to disregard cardio when they may in fact not need it.

-FF

 

[kingpeon]

What if you do cardio after lifting?

Considering that 20-30 minutes into any strenuous activity your glucose and/or glycogen is shot, it's safe to say that you're already in the fat burning zone after weight training for 30 minutes or more.

 

[inkyone]

thats because the first 20 min is dropping blood sugar levels before digging into fat stores for glucose
do it after your strength routine

 

[mountaindog1]

Ok I get that. So its just normal protocol then that after the workout replenish glyco and protein? In other words.... no hour or 2 of fast after workout correct?


I think im going to have to drop my weight percentages way down to accomplish that kind of calorie burn in a workout. No wonder i retain fat. Im constantly dumping carbs in me during my workout. Albeit I do lean more towards power training than being as lean as possible. But I sure would like to take a little more off the midsection.

You misunderstand me friend. Do not train to burn fat, fuel yourself with carbs to train hard....keep your weights up....building muscle is what is going to burn more fat..you don't get fat by consuming carbs around training...it's when you eat them not around training (with total calories also a big factor) that you get fat..

 

[autoimmune]

ha ha .... ^^^ i like this guy! :yeahthat:

says the guy who would be a pro if he came in shredded in any of the last 3-4 shows he competed in

just giving you a hard time bboy, you're going to get yours this time around!

 

[dalvare1]

Yep, he's right. The first 20 minutes or so is immediately available blood glucose, muscle glycogen and amino acids from your own muscle being converted to glucose.

Once all blood glucose is burned, not from muscle source, then and only then will you burn free fatty acids.

There is a lot of misleading information in this thread....

From Layne Norton:

On Cardio being catabolic:
When doing cardio, is there a way to not burn muscle doing it slower using aminos or at when does it begin or is it not a serous concern should I do it first thing in the morning or time meals?

Cardio is not catabolic, that is mythical nonesense. In fact, we find that in diet studies just walking 1 hour per day dramatically improves muscle retention. Now obviously these people don’t’ train with weights but still, it’s obvious that cardio is NOT catabolic like these cardio phobic trainers would have you believe.

As much as people would like to have you believe that glycogen is the only fuel you use during high intensity that is non-sense. This is the problem with ‘gurus’ who know a little bit, they know just enough to be dangerous.

1) you only need oxygen to oxidize fat, you don’t need it to liberate (lipolysis) from fat tissue. High intensity cardio causes a LARGE dumping of free fatty acids into the bloodstream. You see, for the brief part of the interval where you are oxygen deprived you will use glucose… but during the 40-50 seconds of low intensity of the interval where you are ‘resting’ your body will initiate a large scale oxidation of fatty acids in order to spare glucose. Your body is VERY stingy with glycogen and WILL NOT use muscle glycogen unless it absolutely has to. So you are burning glycogen yes, but you are also burning a ton of fat. The idea that you only burn one or the other is idiocy spewed by morons.