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Lab Work Help

Lifted78

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I was hoping you guys could please provide some advice for recent lab results. All of you have been a wealth of knowledge and appreciate everyones advice/input. With these recent labs I am having trouble pinpointing some issues, despite going through numerous threads and trying to find similar situations.

I switched to Test C at 20mg M-F, totaling 200mg (same as December 2017 labs - just increased frequency), instead of 2 pins a week, which seems to have helped total test (1631.9) and free test (greater than 50), as well as lowered my hematocrit, RBC and Hemo back down to normal range.

My main concern is thyroid function. On Dec of 2017 it was LOW at 4.3, where normal range is 4.5-12. Now (3/28/18) it dropped down to 3.3, but also Free thyroxine index dropped to LOW at 1.0 when it was normal a few months ago.

After research and looking through various threads on the board, I am thinking a recent drop in calories could effect this? However, it being low and going even lower is what confuses me as there hasn't been any other changes. Added Tren at 20mg day for a total of 100mg week right before this test, however can't see how that would impact this variable.


Also, IGF-1 went from a high of 293 to now 165. I suppose what is throwing me off is I expected this blood work to be better than my previous and that isn't the case. Estrogen is high, which is my fault as I lowered dex, thinking the frequent pinning of smaller quantities would allow me to pull back on this. The plan is to increase dex back up to MWF instead of MF, which has been the most recent protocol.

Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated from you guys, as stated before I always appreciate everyones input and look forward to what you think!
 

Lifted78

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Tylenol had to be taken for a few days before this test unfortunately, so may caused the increase in liver values, however not taking any orals other than the dex.
 

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Lifted78

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Here is the December 2017 lab work if that helps...
 

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tren_plz

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Tren is lowering your igf numbers.
 

Lifted78

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Tren is lowering your igf numbers.

That's interesting, I thought it has the exact opposite effect. Also, I would think that smaller, more frequent amounts might negate some of trens negative sides.

Would the 100mg week dose be too low? Been trying to experiment with lower dosed compounds, yet where benefits are still seen/felt.
 

Getnbiggger

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Are you doing any GH?
 

Lifted78

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The only other compound is Synthetine, but if anything that has been saving me I'm sure as far as staying lean for thyroid levels being so low
 

Reno911

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IMO I wouldn't be worried about your thyroid but I would however work to get your GFR and HDL corrected.
 

Elvia1023

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A few things stick out to me. Firstly tren and arimidex can effect IGF-1 levels so can definitely skew things. So many things including diet can also effect IGF-1. That is a big drop from your past numbers though. What were you running in Dec? What aas? Any hgh, igf-1 or mk-677 around that time?

Arimidex as been shown to increase IGF-1 so lowering it could have even have had an effect. Plus I see your estrogen has increased as a result of that. I would up your adex by a tiny margin but you are not in a bad place at all. As mentioned tren can do the same as well. I wouldn't worry about IGF-1 levels at all. Obviously adding in your mk-677 will only help matters but it's not essential.

I feel the same about your thyroid as well and tren can effect numbers and has been shown to decrease function. That's why it's common for people to supplement with t3/t4 when using tren. The actual androgenic/anabolic effects from tren and of course the synthetine are a good counter balance so you shouldn't notice the drop.

All in all you are ok you just need to keep monitoring certain health markers. Do you use any health supps? What about cardio? I think some cardio and adding in the likes of ubiquinol, citrus bergamot and krill oil should only benefit you if you don't already use them.
 

Lifted78

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Thanks for the help/input Elvia!

A few things stick out to me. Firstly tren and arimidex can effect IGF-1 levels so can definitely skew things. So many things including diet can also effect IGF-1. That is a big drop from your past numbers though. What were you running in Dec? What aas? Any hgh, igf-1 or mk-677 around that time?

In terms of diet; I decreased fats and increased carbs as I was trying to lean down around February (dropped 10lbs). In December my Test was the same at 200mg wk, except had a M/F split instead of M-F ed. Also, if I remember correctly, there was some mk-677 added in during that time, however decided to take a break dye to waking up with numb hands. The dose was at 12.5mg. NPP was added before December's labs as well, which I believe is why the Hematocrit was previously elevated.


Arimidex as been shown to increase IGF-1 so lowering it could have even have had an effect. Plus I see your estrogen has increased as a result of that. I would up your adex by a tiny margin but you are not in a bad place at all. As mentioned tren can do the same as well. I wouldn't worry about IGF-1 levels at all. Obviously adding in your mk-677 will only help matters but it's not essential.

Debating on adding the mk-677 back into the current regimen. What do you think?


I feel the same about your thyroid as well and tren can effect numbers and has been shown to decrease function. That's why it's common for people to supplement with t3/t4 when using tren. The actual androgenic/anabolic effects from tren and of course the synthetine are a good counter balance so you shouldn't notice the drop.

Agreed! Will look into adding this in, would explain for the fatigue, however Synthetine pre-workout has made such a huge difference in training endurance wise. I was hoping having the tren at only 100mg week, wouldn't affect those markers but exactly why blood work is so critical

All in all you are ok you just need to keep monitoring certain health markers. Do you use any health supps? What about cardio? I think some cardio and adding in the likes of ubiquinol, citrus bergamot and krill oil should only benefit you if you don't already use them.
Supps:
Fishoil 4g
NAC 1800mg
Synthergine 2ml 2x/day
Snthetine back to 5ml pre-workout
COQ10
Magnesium
Digestive Enzyme
Probiotics
Hydrolyzed Collagen for joints

Recently added a Thyroid support with Iodine and Ashwagandha, will re-check labs in a couple weeks to see if this helps, if not will definitely add in the T3/t4.
Will also check into the citrus bergamot and add cardio back in first thing A.M.

Thanks again Elvia!
 
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Kaladryn

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Tren is falsely elevating your E2 because they are using the ECLIA method to test it.

The strange thing about your thyroid function is your TSH should be higher if your t3 and t4 are low, your body wants your thyroid that low for some reason, calorie restriction maybe?
 

Elvia1023

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Yes tren can do weird things to blood work. Your estrogen isn't even that high even if it were that considering your test is that high. Tren could be elevating that number though as Kal stated. How are you feeling? Sex drive etc? I think you are generally gtg as long as you feel good. You just need to change a few things but nothing is alarming. I am guessing if you need to change things your diet should be the 1st area you look towards. Are your calories very low now?

Your supp list looks good. Your IGF-1 was quite high in Dec. Have you had a baseline tested in the past? It looks to me the MK-677 is likely the cause of the elevation (diet could have contributed as well). It could be a case your igf-1 was simply high in Dec and is normal now. How much water are you drinking?
 
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Lifted78

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Tren is falsely elevating your E2 because they are using the ECLIA method to test it.

The strange thing about your thyroid function is your TSH should be higher if your t3 and t4 are low, your body wants your thyroid that low for some reason, calorie restriction maybe?

Thanks for giving everything a look over Kaladryn! I was on a slight calorie restriction to drop a few pounds and tightened my macros. The week before this particular lab my calories were back up since dropping the unwanted fat.

One thing I noticed, which is what I was hoping you guys would possibly have some insight on is that T4 was low in December before the tren or diet restriction and dropped even lower as of March.
 

Lifted78

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Yes tren can do weird things to blood work. Your estrogen isn't even that high even if it were that considering your test is that high. Tren could be elevating that number though as Kal stated. How are you feeling? Sex drive etc? I think you are generally gtg as long as you feel good. You just need to change a few things but nothing is alarming. I am guessing if you need to change things your diet should be the 1st area you look towards. Are your calories very low now?

I bumped up the dex to 3x per week to drop it down (estrogen), but if its the tren causing this then would it be best to keep the dex at 2x/week? Overall, the only thing I've noticed is general fatigue. Libido isn't an issue, however take 2.5mg/day cialis for general health as well. Calories were low to drop bf, but have since been increased. Have a show coming up at the end of the year, so would definitely want all markers in check before going into precontest regimen.

Your supp list looks good. Your IGF-1 was quite high in Dec. Have you had a baseline tested in the past? It looks to me the MK-677 is likely the cause of the elevation (diet could have contributed as well). It could be a case your igf-1 was simply high in Dec and is normal now. How much water are you drinking?
Yea it looks like this is around the same baseline from a few years back, perhaps the mk-677 caused the spike in December? The only other extra info from the previous test is Growth Hormone, Serum was 12.6.

Water is always at least a gallon during workouts and roughly 1.5 gallons/day. Picked up some Citrus Bergamot to get HDL up and see if the thyroid support works, if not then will look into t3/t4 or just drop the Tren for now.

Honestly appreciate the feedback/advice and you guys taking the time to help out!
 
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Kaladryn

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Feed your body properly and your thyroid will increase on it's own, I'm able to get my thyroid VERY high through diet, also able to lower it significantly with diet. T4 levels don't really matter if T3 is good.

Tren will ALWAYS raise your E2 value if the bloodwork says "ECLIA methodology" used.

Your E2 isn't actually high, don't increase your AI unless you get estrogen related sides IMO, tren can activate the estrogen receptor, testosterone can actually activate the estrogen receptor too, very low affinity though.
 

Lifted78

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Feed your body properly and your thyroid will increase on it's own, I'm able to get my thyroid VERY high through diet, also able to lower it significantly with diet. T4 levels don't really matter if T3 is good.

Tren will ALWAYS raise your E2 value if the bloodwork says "ECLIA methodology" used.

Your E2 isn't actually high, don't increase your AI unless you get estrogen related sides IMO, tren can activate the estrogen receptor, testosterone can actually activate the estrogen receptor too, very low affinity though.

I'll keep AI the same then, the only sides I tend to notice is water retention in the face. Never any issues with gyno, sore nipples etc. Granted 200mg of Test probably wouldn't cause gyno related sides for anyone.
 

Elvia1023

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I'll keep AI the same then, the only sides I tend to notice is water retention in the face. Never any issues with gyno, sore nipples etc. Granted 200mg of Test probably wouldn't cause gyno related sides for anyone.

I agree. The lowest effective AI dose is usually the best one. Even if I am on a lot of test (1g or so) I tend to only use 12.5mg max aromasin daily. If you feel fine and show no estrogenic signs just keep your AI the way it currently is. It's not even that high especially when coupled with your test result. 200mg test can actually cause many gyno signs in some people. Although loads of factors come into play such as overall duration of cycle, inj timing and other drugs used. It's looks like you will be gtg and just keep getting blood work done and monitoring changes. You got a 12.6 on a hgh serum. That was just on mk-677 and no hgh? If so that is rare and you must have timed a spike very well.
 

Lifted78

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I agree. The lowest effective AI dose is usually the best one. Even if I am on a lot of test (1g or so) I tend to only use 12.5mg max aromasin daily. If you feel fine and show no estrogenic signs just keep your AI the way it currently is. It's not even that high especially when coupled with your test result. 200mg test can actually cause many gyno signs in some people. Although loads of factors come into play such as overall duration of cycle, inj timing and other drugs used. It's looks like you will be gtg and just keep getting blood work done and monitoring changes. You got a 12.6 on a hgh serum. That was just on mk-677 and no hgh? If so that is rare and you must have timed a spike very well.

Sounds good will keep AI the same and have labs done in another couple weeks. The 12.6 was from an older lab, when gh was in the mix, not the mk-677, apologies for the confusion. Once labs come back within normal ranges I plan to finish up the rest of the mk-677. Always felt it made a noticeable difference, except for waking up with numb hands wasn’t the greatest haha
 

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