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Lantus with a ketogenic or PSMF diet

warlock

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No I'm not getting fat, I am on tren at the moment and before that ment and have been running gh.

I'm actually not into "bulking". When I started lifting I was 135 at just under 6ft. I'm a true hard gainer, which in my opinion all that means is I just have to eat more than most.

Yeah, that's a lot of food and carbs, but it seems your body needs them. I'm sure tren helps stay leaner too. All in all, 25 units of lantus/day for that amount of carbs is not even a high dose at all, but I'm sure it's helping shuttling those nutrients more efficiently.
 

mpjuice

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Yeah, that's a lot of food and carbs, but it seems your body needs them. I'm sure tren helps stay leaner too. All in all, 25 units of lantus/day for that amount of carbs is not even a high dose at all, but I'm sure it's helping shuttling those nutrients more efficiently.
25 is actually making a significant difference. Ive heard daily use of lantus can cause insulin resistance. Which doesn't make that much sense to me, but I'm just staying on the side of caution.
 

Tallandsmal

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On keto I like to increase until 80iu/d and also use a little bit of DNP, 200mg/d generally.
Also use log pre-wo, ~5-8iu. Works great.

I think this is not something you should post without adding that you consume 80 gr of carbs ( so you do not do keto ) intra workout. Never know who's reading and the amount of research they do.


OT. I did this a couple of times. Went up to 55 IU of Lantus while cutting on Keto, couldn't handle more as. Hardly lost weight but cut fat down quite noticable. As a recomp it is awesome if you ask me. Too bad I get tired of eating only protein and fats after 8 weeks, am curious what is possible if one does this for a period of 6 months or so.
 

warlock

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25 is actually making a significant difference. Ive heard daily use of lantus can cause insulin resistance. Which doesn't make that much sense to me, but I'm just staying on the side of caution.

That's the main thing with insulin. People feed the insulin all the time which defeats its purpose and causes insulin resistance. However, if you use it the other way around (like you are), then you get all the benefits and opposite effects of insulin resistance.
 

warlock

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I think this is not something you should post without adding that you consume 80 gr of carbs ( so you do not do keto ) intra workout. Never know who's reading and the amount of research they do.


OT. I did this a couple of times. Went up to 55 IU of Lantus while cutting on Keto, couldn't handle more as. Hardly lost weight but cut fat down quite noticable. As a recomp it is awesome if you ask me. Too bad I get tired of eating only protein and fats after 8 weeks, am curious what is possible if one does this for a period of 6 months or so.

What kind of Keto diet do you follow with lantus if you don't mind my asking. Is it a Palumbo style type of keto?
 

Tallandsmal

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What kind of Keto diet do you follow with lantus if you don't mind my asking. Is it a Palumbo style type of keto?

Palumbo being high fat right? I mostly used CG's tips, so ate about 130 to 150 gr of fat and 400 gr of protein to begin with. Lowered this as weeks went by of course. Used quite some shakes with Hydro whey and EAA's.
 

Ironman 580

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That's the main thing with insulin. People feed the insulin all the time which defeats its purpose and causes insulin resistance. However, if you use it the other way around (like you are), then you get all the benefits and opposite effects of insulin resistance.
Can u explain this “feed the insulin”which defeats its purpose? / I want to know the proper protocol? I have some humalog on hand
 

Pretzel Logic

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Feeding insulin is deciding to use a certain amount, and then eating enough carbs, or in the case of these keto lantus protocols, protein, to make sure your blood sugar is high enough for how much insulin you’re taking to prevent going hypo. The proper way is to determine your insulin dose by your diet and GH use and blood sugar needs, and taking enough to get good absorption and utilization of nutrients and keep blood sugar in range. This is especially important when guys are eating a ton of calories and/or taking a lot of GH. The insulin helps their body utilize those calories and keep blood sugar levels from GH in check when their pancreas might be having trouble keeping up, and taking a little stress off of it is a good idea as well.
 

guest1337

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I see great benefit running a small dose of lantus on a keto diet to lose extra fat (and stay fuller) and, even better, if DNP is added. However, 80iu sounds like a high amount to run. Is your keto diet high in protein and more moderate in fats? Perhaps higher protein that stimulates glycogenesis?

Of course
 

Ironman 580

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Feeding insulin is deciding to use a certain amount, and then eating enough carbs, or in the case of these keto lantus protocols, protein, to make sure your blood sugar is high enough for how much insulin you’re taking to prevent going hypo. The proper way is to determine your insulin dose by your diet and GH use and blood sugar needs, and taking enough to get good absorption and utilization of nutrients and keep blood sugar in range. This is especially important when guys are eating a ton of calories and/or taking a lot of GH. The insulin helps their body utilize those calories and keep blood sugar levels from GH in check when their pancreas might be having trouble keeping up, and taking a little stress off of it is a good idea as well.
So how do u figure out your dose by your diet then? - I would like to try this procedure
 

fasterthenyoo

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concrete posts here under a similar but different name. just cannot remember it off the top of my head.
 

mpjuice

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That's the main thing with insulin. People feed the insulin all the time which defeats its purpose and causes insulin resistance. However, if you use it the other way around (like you are), then you get all the benefits and opposite effects of insulin resistance.
So in your opinion for me... lantus daily at say 30 iu. Could help me more? I was thinking about switching to daily anyways because I'm going to Hawaii Soon.
 

Bio

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concrete posts here under a similar but different name. just cannot remember it off the top of my head.

He posts here and AnaSci.org under the same name...concreteguy. You're confusing him with concreter.
 

warlock

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So in your opinion for me... lantus daily at say 30 iu. Could help me more? I was thinking about switching to daily anyways because I'm going to Hawaii Soon.

You are not using lantus daily at the moment? Is your nutrition the same on workout and non-workout days?
 

juggy38

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I used to use 2-3iu humulin-R PWO on a PSMF and had really good results. Recovery a lot better than no insulin
 

mpjuice

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You are not using lantus daily at the moment? Is your nutrition the same on workout and non-workout days?
No I haven't, only because just because Mike Arnold had posted in the past that daily lantus can mess up insulin resistance, (and I believe insulin resistance is a huge concern from a bodybuilding standpoint as well as health).

I've been doing lantus 3 to 4 days a week.

I do log about 5 days a week (sometimes 6 days a week).

My diet is pretty much the same excluding my intra workout drink. Which is 20-25 mg of BCAA and 50-75g of karboline
 

b-boy

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My first question to you would be 'why' would you want to PSMF with Lantus? What do you think you're going to get out of it? Why no carbs? Why keto?

IMO - Lantus is best used as a backup blood glucose regulator when you're pushing carbs and gh in the off season.
EXACTLY ^^^^^^ (smart man right here^^)
 

warlock

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No I haven't, only because just because Mike Arnold had posted in the past that daily lantus can mess up insulin resistance, (and I believe insulin resistance is a huge concern from a bodybuilding standpoint as well as health).

I've been doing lantus 3 to 4 days a week.

I do log about 5 days a week (sometimes 6 days a week).

My diet is pretty much the same excluding my intra workout drink. Which is 20-25 mg of BCAA and 50-75g of karboline

I read Mike's protocol a while back, but he was suggesting much larger doses of lantus so it made sense in this case to not use it daily or for long periods. To me, it makes sense to use lantus when carbs get really high (and/or GH is messing with blood glucose) and one have difficulty keeping blood sugars in check. The use of lantus, when used for this purpose, will only bring benefits and can be ran for long periods if need be without causing any insulin resistance. Lantus is used to avoid becoming insulin resistant in fact.

If I were you, I would check fasted glucose levels and then see if your lantus dose needs to be adjusted.
 

mpjuice

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The one issue I see with that is lantus is not a 24-hour (like many believe) it's actually a 12h, 1/2 life insulin analog. So if I take fasted glucose first thing in the morning the lantus isn't really doing much.

But I do I do agree, if levels aren't too high why should there be any sort of downregulation. And eating as much carbs as I do it almost becomes necessary to take insulin from a health standpoint.
 

Thappy

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The one issue I see with that is lantus is not a 24-hour (like many believe) it's actually a 12h, 1/2 life insulin analog. So if I take fasted glucose first thing in the morning the lantus isn't really doing much.

But I do I do agree, if levels aren't too high why should there be any sort of downregulation. And eating as much carbs as I do it almost becomes necessary to take insulin from a health standpoint.


i have recently started to train in the am fasted(apart from intra drink) i pin 5iu of humalog and 20-40iu of lantus at the same time. I eat minimal carbs during the day 150-250 depending on if im going to train the same day in the pm(aprox 8-10 hours after am training) too. If i do train in the pm ill pin 8iu give or take a few iu in pre work out and have an intra drink again and when im hungry after again i will have my last meal for the day with approx 40-50gm carbs.

I have been running L Carnatine with it as well which i have mentioned. Im eating as clean as it gets to me. I have no desire to compete just look good, feel good and look good naked.

My schedule may seem unorthadox but i train when i can due to family commitments which come first.

My anabolics are the lowest they have been on a blast in probably 5 years
 

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