Lat pull downs vs. pull ups

[maldorf]

I thought I’d contribute my opinion as to why pull ups are superior to pulldowns for back width.

As hellraiser27 says, with regards to physics both motions would seem to be the same. You are either pulling yourself up to a bar or pulling a bar down towards you.

The reason I believe pull ups are superior to lat pulldowns is because of the positioning of the forearms during the movement. During a pullup, the forearms remain in line with your torso and stay at right angles to the floor.

During a pulldown, most people tend to lean back and do not pull the bar straight down. Instead it is pulled down and back on a slight angle towards their body with their forearms also on a slight angle (not at right angles with the floor). This incorporates the rear delts, infraspinatus and middle traps.

So you see, lat pulldowns use these 3 more muscles (synergists) to assist with the movement, taking some of the strain off the lats.

Less synergists are used during a pull up, so your lats do more of the work.

And just for the hell of it, I’ll throw in a Poliquin quote (not that I agree with everything he says but I thought this was appropriate for here):

Your post nails it. I agree 100%. The angle you pull at is different to some degree. How many guys have you seen in the gym trying to show off pulling down the whole stack but are throwing their bodies back using their bodywieght to help move the bar? Some of those fools are even using their lower back to help pull it down. Pullups win hands down for me.

I do like doing narrow grip pulldowns though with a parallel grip becasue of the way I feel it way down low on my lats. Its really hard to do pullup narrow and parallel grip. Ive tried putting the handle over the pullup bar and using that but its awkward once you reach the top because your face is crashing into the bar and you have to angle your body to either the right or left side. Ive seen some guys do it, but its awkward for me.

 

[JTPitbull]

I do like doing narrow grip pulldowns though with a parallel grip becasue of the way I feel it way down low on my lats. Its really hard to do pullup narrow and parallel grip. Ive tried putting the handle over the pullup bar and using that but its awkward once you reach the top because your face is crashing into the bar and you have to angle your body to either the right or left side. Ive seen some guys do it, but its awkward for me.

i wont say where this one was learned but a towel works GREAT... grab it w just ur hands tho and it blasts forearms... but if u wrap it around ur wrists u can pull a ft higher than tha parrellel grip close grip..... i put it around those chin bars u have to jump up to reach....


VT- TY for tha vidz...i didnt find those....



-PIT

 

[maldorf]

i wont say where this one was learned but a towel works GREAT... grab it w just ur hands tho and it blasts forearms... but if u wrap it around ur wrists u can pull a ft higher than tha parrellel grip close grip..... i put it around those chin bars u have to jump up to reach....


VT- TY for tha vidz...i didnt find those....



-PIT

Sounds like something to try, thanks! im doing back later today and just might give that a whirl.

 

[eyesin]

I love me some pullups.

 

[hellraiser27]

Your post nails it. I agree 100%. The angle you pull at is different to some degree. How many guys have you seen in the gym trying to show off pulling down the whole stack but are throwing their bodies back using their bodywieght to help move the bar? Some of those fools are even using their lower back to help pull it down. Pullups win hands down for me.

I do like doing narrow grip pulldowns though with a parallel grip becasue of the way I feel it way down low on my lats. Its really hard to do pullup narrow and parallel grip. Ive tried putting the handle over the pullup bar and using that but its awkward once you reach the top because your face is crashing into the bar and you have to angle your body to either the right or left side. Ive seen some guys do it, but its awkward for me.

Yes I agree. My point is only true if people use correct form. For everyone this is different. I prefer pulldowns because I use a very strict squeeze method. And I can start with very low weight and work my way up. I feel that strapping weight to my body for pullups is too much to deal with.
Now,, some people like it. Its their thing to strap weight to their bodies and pull themselves up.
What ever works for you is the one that you do!
It should be the one where you use the best form while using the most weight. My point is that the exercises are essentially the same so there is no need to do both

 

[petedw]

Your post nails it. I agree 100%.

Yes I agree. My point is only true if people use correct form.

Cheers guys. I appreciate that. Although i went into a little more detail to try to explain why i think pullups are better for back width, i think this thread was pretty much summed up by the following post...

I wont go into it too much on here but anytime your body moves through space as opposed to just limbs moving it is ALWAYS more beneficial.......especially hormonally.............a more systemic effect.

I also think the people reading this thread should pay attention to this post..

So it would be best to do squats or hacks for legs, dips for chest and tris, pullups and close reverse pullups for back and bis, deadlifts for back, stiffs for hams, standing raises for calves and these exercises take care of delts.

...although i would include lateral raises for delts...funnily enough Phil provides this advice in another thread.

And i completely agree with JC. Why not include both types in your workouts?

I do both...

 

[iwant2grow1]

Pull ups FTW and then pull downs after lol

 

[NeverSoft]

I do weighted pullups using a dip belt. I hang (3) 45lb plates between my legs for reps. If I want to progress, I can always toss another weight on the chain. However, most cable pull downs have a set weight stack. Most dont go past 250lbs...so how do you progress with cables after you clear the stack?

You're making fun of people's posts when you are writing laughable stuff like this?

"Ness" - If you're doing weighted pull ups with 3 plates between your legs..... You must not HAVE ANY LEGS to speak of, "no offense" (you see, that didn't make the insult any less harsh did it?"

Seriously though, what do you weigh? About 190 - 195? You're pulling a 250 pound stack, wide grip with "pull up form?" Or are you swinging and yanking it and talking about needing more weight?

Before you start flaming, check your ego and answer my questions honestly. Remember....... I said "NO OFFENSE".

 

[eseng]

i do both...using the pulldowns for controlled and higher reps

 

[Ness]

You're making fun of people's posts when you are writing laughable stuff like this?

"Ness" - If you're doing weighted pull ups with 3 plates between your legs..... You must not HAVE ANY LEGS to speak of, "no offense" (you see, that didn't make the insult any less harsh did it?"

Seriously though, what do you weigh? About 190 - 195? You're pulling a 250 pound stack, wide grip with "pull up form?" Or are you swinging and yanking it and talking about needing more weight?

Before you start flaming, check your ego and answer my questions honestly. Remember....... I said "NO OFFENSE".

Well obviously I can beat your ass in the gym any way you want to call it.

 

[Necrias]

Unless you are a fat fuck (or a weak fuck) that can't do 10 pullups, pullups will always be better. That being said, I have 1 pullup day (usually 3 sets to failure) and 1 pulldown day (light 10x10) for work capacity and overall volume.

 

[red5150]

what about anybody do rack chins??

 

[napaulm]

I like all kinds of moves


Rack chins to the front and back of head
Pulldowns (usually reverse grip) with cables or Hammer Strength
Pullups w/ a neutral grip
Even machine Pullovers

No need to limit yourself

how do u do a rack chin to the back of yr head?

 

[napaulm]

nice. I will definitely incorporate that. Thanks.

ladder actually are done
1-2-3-2-1- or 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1, etc. with a 12-15 sec rest inbetween.

navy seal workouts. i'd ladder up to 7 on regular, wide, closegrip, and reverse.
the high #, you square and thats the total per set. you progress really fast this way.

 

[NeverSoft]

Well obviously I can beat your ass in the gym any way you want to call it.

LOL - You can "beat my ass" in the gym all day long. Not sure what that means. I train with lighter weight than you I guess, and I ended up with more muscle than the big strong guy.... Works for me. =)


To each his own. We all have different goals.

You should start a thread about how stupid everyone else's posts are. Don't forget to add all your max lifts, how strong you are, and how much ass you kick in the gym. :headbang:

 

[eslam hassan]

for me I prefer pulldown

 

[tri-terror]

ladder actually are done
1-2-3-2-1- or 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1, etc. with a 12-15 sec rest inbetween.

navy seal workouts. i'd ladder up to 7 on regular, wide, closegrip, and reverse.
the high #, you square and thats the total per set. you progress really fast this way.

So you would do reg. wide, CG and reverse each for their own ladder or vary the way you do pullups within a ladder? I haven't done pullups like this in a long time, but you are right the ladders do work like a mother, I may have to start this again.

Hey never soft, you got any pics to back up your mouth?

 

[JTPitbull]

Sounds like something to try, thanks! im doing back later today and just might give that a whirl.

ayeeee....what did you think of them bro??? you can try wrapping tha towel around your wrists and holding it both wayz.... one where tha towel is coming up to tha bar fro tha bottom of ur hands like you were mentioning.... kinda parallel close grib style....or tha other way where it is going up from ur thumbs if u know wat im sayin?

try just grabbin tha towel n doing it w/o wrapping it around ur wrists..... forearm CRUSHERRRRR!!! almost as bad as climbing rope


BTW... i just want to add that tha lil "door gym" pull up bars r fckn awesome.... alwayz bored walking thru tha house and bust a few sets a day for fun.... after doing them everyday tha reps are realyyyy gettin up there....

-PIT

 

[Human Rocket]

I just started doing pull ups (weight assisted - lame, but I'm a weak fatass) but I can already tell it's working my lats better than pull downs.

 

[Ness]

NEVERSOFT

Post some pictures.