Lee Haney on Leg Development

[slesh]

Not sure if this concept has been discussed before but very interesting. Any of you guys hit legs like this?

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[Heath82]

I just saw that and I agree. I have disc issues so that’s how I have to train anyways. You can still make progression training like this

 

[luki7788]

I've been doing this for a long time - first 2 types of leg curl - then leg ex, leg press and finally hacks squat but still I use 6-7 plates per side but I'm full of blood in my legs and it's much safer

 

[danieltx]

What he's saying applies to any muscle group - muscles don't know if you use dumbbells / barbells / machines / cables / 10lbs. / 1,000lbs - they only know how hard they have to work.

I set all my workouts up like that. For legs it's:

• Calf press
• Adduction
• Abduction
• Leg extension
• Machine leg press unilateral
• Hack squat
• Leg press

 

[goback2013]

What he's saying applies to any muscle group - muscles don't know if you use dumbbells / barbells / machines / cables / 10lbs. / 1,000lbs - they only know how hard they have to work.

I set all my workouts up like that. For legs it's:

• Calf press
• Adduction
• Abduction
• Leg extension
• Machine leg press unilateral
• Hack squat
• Leg press

Do you use knee wraps on your leg press sets ?
I need to get some wraps and try your suggestion on my barbell squats. It seems I have to squat to keep some semblance of leg development. Even if with a 25lb on each side.

 

[danieltx]

Do you use knee wraps on your leg press sets ?
I need to get some wraps and try your suggestion on my barbell squats. It seems I have to squat to keep some semblance of leg development. Even if with a 25lb on each side.

I always use knee wraps on my 2 heaviest sets of leg press and Hack squats, have for years.

As a tall guy with long limbs you might do better for leg development with Hacks or some other kind of squat. Barbell squats just don't build much muscle for most longer-limbed guys.

 

[bigzzz]

What he's saying applies to any muscle group - muscles don't know if you use dumbbells / barbells / machines / cables / 10lbs. / 1,000lbs - they only know how hard they have to work.

I set all my workouts up like that. For legs it's:

• Calf press
• Adduction
• Abduction
• Leg extension
• Machine leg press unilateral
• Hack squat
• Leg press

You mean with that, that you start shoulders for example with rear/side delts and finish with a press? Same for chest.

 

[slesh]

I always use knee wraps on my 2 heaviest sets of leg press and Hack squats, have for years.

As a tall guy with long limbs you might do better for leg development with Hacks or some other kind of squat. Barbell squats just don't build much muscle for most longer-limbed guys.

Hammer strength linear hack squats have been great to me as someone who has most of their length in their legs and a shorter torso…

 

[slesh]

You mean with that, that you start shoulders for example with rear/side delts and finish with a press? Same for chest.

Which is essentially the opposite of what I’ve been doing for 20 years. That’s why this is so intriguing to me.

 

[goback2013]

Hammer strength linear hack squats have been great to me as someone who has most of their length in their legs and a shorter torso…

Yeah. I was thinking youre like 6'2 based on the length of your legs.

 

[slesh]

Yeah. I was thinking youre like 6'2 based on the length of your legs.

Lol and I’m barely 5’11 which I guess really proves my point

 

[Doitagain]

Decades of AAS use definitely made my muscles, eventually, TOO strong for my joints capacity under extreme load with compound movements.
So yes, pullover machine before pullups/rows, chest fly before bench press, hams/adductors/glutes before leg press etc.

 

[alfresco]

I have been ‘preaching’ that pre-exhaust routine for over 35 years. (Even my oldest posts here reference it.)

The real key to this is literally no rest, or as close to no rest between exercises.

The first gym I ever trained at I convinced the owner (who went on to become a dear friend) to let me set up this circuit, putting all the exercise right next to each other so all I had to do was hobble from one exercise to another. 3 seconds rest between exercises . . . this is true pre-exhaust. Do not let others tell you any different. The pump after doing this, each set to absolute failure, must be experienced to be believed.

Casey Viator’s leg routine . . . he won best legs.

Leg press, 1 x 20 x 750
Leg ext., 1 x 14-20 x 250
Squat, 1 x 14-20 x 505

Leg curls, 1 x 14-20 x 150

I have a friend who was training in the quonset hut at DeLand High School along side Casey (Casey was 19 at the time, training for the Mr. A) in FL at the time and saw him doing this routine. It has also been widely published.

Sergio Olivia was trained by Arthur Jones as well. He attempted this routine, after Casey, but hit the ground like a used condom when he got to squats. He had like three people hammering on his leg which had cramped up, which afforded him some rest. When he resumed, he barely got 20 reps with 135.

Those were the days.

 

[alfresco]

I have been ‘preaching’ that pre-exhaust routine for over 35 years. (Even my oldest posts here reference it.)

The real key to this is literally no rest, or as close to no rest between exercises.

The first gym I ever trained at I convinced the owner (who went on to become a dear friend) to let me set up this circuit, putting all the exercise right next to each other so all I had to do was hobble from one exercise to another. 3 seconds rest between exercises . . . this is true pre-exhaust. Do not let others tell you any different. The pump after doing this, each set to absolute failure, must be experienced to be believed.

Casey Viator’s leg routine . . . he won best legs.

Leg press, 1 x 20 x 750
Leg ext., 1 x 14-20 x 250
Squat, 1 x 14-20 x 505

Leg curls, 1 x 14-20 x 150

I have a friend who was training in the quonset hut at DeLand High School along side Casey (Casey was 19 at the time, training for the Mr. A) in FL at the time and saw him doing this routine. It has also been widely published.

Sergio Olivia was trained by Arthur Jones as well. He attempted this routine, after Casey, but hit the ground like a used condom when he got to squats. He had like three people hammering on his leg which had cramped up, which afforded him some rest. When he resumed, he barely got 20 reps with 135.

Those were the days.

I misremembered the Sergio part . . . my memory being less than perfect

“Training with him and following immediately this trainee, Sergio Oliva reached the squat rack after 17 reps with 460 in the leg-press and 16 reps in the thigh-extensions with 200 pounds, and when he “broke the lock” in his knees for his first rep in the squat with 400 pounds, he went to the floor like he had been knocked in the head. After being helped to his feet, he tried it again – with the same result; whereupon we removed 100 pounds from the bar – during which delay Sergio was afforded some rest – and then he performed 7 reps with 300 pounds.
During a second “break-in” training session, Sergio performed four reps with 400 pounds in the full squat at that same point in the workout – and during his third workout here, he was successful with six reps with 400 pounds; after his left thigh “seized-up” during the thigh-extensions and locked into a straight position, and after he spent about five minutes hopping around the gym in pain with me beating on his thigh with my fist.

Sergio is accustomed to training his latissimus muscles for at least two hours, almost non-stop – but during his first workout here, one cycle of four exercises performed within a period of about four minutes was all he wanted; after which four minutes he spent a considerably longer period of time stretched out on the sidewalk in front of the gym. And less than eight minutes of training for his arms was more than enough.

Because this really is “hard” training.
And make no slightest mistake about one thing, Sergio Oliva is a MAN; he is one of the strongest men I have ever seen – and he is the only man I have ever seen with a legitimate “cold” 20 inch muscular arm – measured by myself, in front of witnesses, on the first flex, at right angles to the bone, with a literally paper-thin and perfectly accurate tape that was checked there and then against a steel rule.
And while it is widely believed that a trainee “cannot make best-possible gains unless he devotes himself entirely to his training, avoiding work in the form of gainful employment like the plague and becoming an outright fanatic,” I would like to mention that Sergio, until very recently, was employed full-time in a foundry – perhaps the hottest, hardest work you can find and he told me very plainly that he made BETTER GAINS while he was working full-time in the foundry – since leaving that work, he said, he has found himself getting lazy, he no longer has the same drive for his workouts.”

Nautilus Training Bulletin II

 

[danieltx]

You mean with that, that you start shoulders for example with rear/side delts and finish with a press? Same for chest.

Yes.

Chest starts with a fly, shoudlers start with lateral and front rasies, back starts with pullovers.

I believe this is beneficial for hypertrophy by ensuring the target muscle takes the load and for injury prevention by having you thoroughly warmed up when you get into big pressing or pulling movements.

 

[buck]

Lee was great. And had a beautiful physique. But don't remember him ever being known for having big legs. I never saw a pic where he was even close to squatting to parallel. I am not sure how well his legs would stack up today using his training style.

 

[dantes]

Lee was great. And had a beautiful physique. But don't remember him ever being known for having big legs. I never saw a pic where he was even close to squatting to parallel. I am not sure how well his legs would stack up today using his training style.

Lee given today’s protocols would still easily be a top dog. He clearly came off everything considerably downsizing post competition and I guarantee his diet and supplementation left a lot to be desired. Say haney/Jansen/aceto trained him and did his diet everything by modern standards Lee Haney would well exceed his previous size. At least this is what I believe. Also many guys never squatted to parallel (dex, rhoden, ruhl etc…)

 

[buck]

Lee given today’s protocols would still easily be a top dog. He clearly came off everything considerably downsizing post competition and I guarantee his diet and supplementation left a lot to be desired. Say haney/Jansen/aceto trained him and did his diet everything by modern standards Lee Haney would well exceed his previous size. At least this is what I believe. Also many guys never squatted to parallel (dex, rhoden, ruhl etc…)

I considered all that before i posted. If he proportionally grew everything it would still seem his legs would be lacking by the current standards compared to the guys with great legs. So he may not have done as well as he did or he may have brought them up and dominated. I do not go with woulda shoulda coulda as there is no way to know how things would have really turned out. My only speculation is that he was not known for great legs so following his protocol for them would not be my go to. Others should choose for themselves.

 

[marssel]

I've been doing this for a long time - first 2 types of leg curl - then leg ex, leg press and finally hacks squat but still I use 6-7 plates per side but I'm full of blood in my legs and it's much safer

Lot safer, I can still squat ass to grass heavy in my 40s and I’ve backed away bc I can feel my age now and tween all the exercises available now even if you are healthy (joints) if your legs are big and you’re over 35 it’s kinda poking the bear, imo. I still squat but I do it utterly fatigued with lighter weights and my recovery is faster and my knees dont get tender. Which at 25 didn’t bother me but now……

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Basic stuff that I think a lot of guys are hearing for the first time. And honestly, this is only something that comes into play when you become “dangerously” strong. I don’t want to hack squat first…because I don’t want to go 8+ plates. I’d rather do leg curls, some extensions, adductor work, THENNN go into the big compound movements. I’m fully warmed up, blood pumped and I can significantly lower the weight.

Something as simple as slowing the eccentric phase can also work well. 8 plates is cool, but 6 plates on a 5 second descent is also cool. Slower reps, pauses, pre-exhaust, any way to make the weight FEEL HARDER.