Lots of guys with high hemoglobin

[wasp]

if your glob is 19 you need to get off everything, NOW, i donate every 2 months, my glob was 17. something 2 months ago, was sleeping like shit, 140/90 bp.................i decided it was time to get off............it wasn't easy , and i'm still tired but coming along................yeah, i'm tired and feel like shit , but ya know what............i sleep good, my bp is 120/80 and my glob is 15.6..................take care of your body, you only have one, go give blood, they test glob right there and its free, times by 3 and you have your crit.......

 

[triathloncoach]

Last time I donated blood I did what is called apheresis (spelling?). It takes double the red blood cells. Im guessing that must help. But you can do this less frequently.

I also take a low dose aspirin each day.

And I also know I am gambling with my life for an overly muscled body. We should probably get psychiatric evaluations prior to a CBC panel.

 

[maldorf]

hypoxia (lack of oxygen) during sleep apnea will also cause an increase in hematocrit, most people with severe sleep apnea have high hematocrit, which few know. So i think anyone on AAS and GH (which has been linked to sleep apnea) or just snore in general should get a sleep study done.

Yes, thats one thing I looked into. I think as Bodybuilders, some of us might have this and should have a sleep study. I had one done and insurance paid for it. Mine came back normal though, so I had only really minor issues.

 

[maldorf]

if your glob is 19 you need to get off everything, NOW, i donate every 2 months, my glob was 17. something 2 months ago, was sleeping like shit, 140/90 bp.................i decided it was time to get off............it wasn't easy , and i'm still tired but coming along................yeah, i'm tired and feel like shit , but ya know what............i sleep good, my bp is 120/80 and my glob is 15.6..................take care of your body, you only have one, go give blood, they test glob right there and its free, times by 3 and you have your crit.......

Thats a great and health hemoglobin you have there! Im jealous! Im getting phlebotomies every 4 weeks now and mine has been stuck at about 16.8. Mine had been at 18.5 recently. Doc wants it down to under 16. Yours is perfect.

 

[maldorf]

And I also know I am gambling with my life for an overly muscled body. We should probably get psychiatric evaluations prior to a CBC panel.

No doubt! I remember how I used to feel each time I took my injections knowing my blood panel was probably all screwed up but I did it anyway. It really is hard to quit using.

 

[Kaladryn]

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/741680-post24.html

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/905182-post11.html

Im no guru but its something I truly believe in if you you meant my previous posts.

Yep you are who I got it from, and it works like magic! And yes, even though you may dislike the title, you are a guru, one of the best IMO, because you think outside the box.

 

[smc252]

No doubt! I remember how I used to feel each time I took my injections knowing my blood panel was probably all screwed up but I did it anyway. It really is hard to quit using.

As much as I hate it, I have to be honest with myself and my fiance. I am an addict. The most complex part about this is that I have a real need for both pain meds and hormones. (I'm hypopituitary and suffer chronic pain, both from the same incident.) I hope not to offend you, but it sounds like you too have an addiction. The best thing I ever did was open up 100% to my fiance. When we fight, sure, she throws it in my face, but I am glad someone knows what I take, how much...etc. And bottom line, she cares and still loves me.

Honesly, I think the absolute best way, as far as safety while also maintaining gains, is to stack 1 or 2 AAS @ a total not to exceed 500-600mg and/or do burst cycles.

I am on TRT (which I fought forever to get them to raise my dose beyond 50mg per week.) I take between 200 and 300mg/wk of testosterone but I split it up in 3 doses, as to not spike so much.

I think a lot of TRT stuff should be carried over to bodybuilding, especially low-dose HcG and low doses of adex to keep everything in check.

High DHT/Estradiol is BAD. High testosterone, not so bad. I really wish doctors were more open to helping people juice safely (ie monthly bloodwork, especially when methylated orals are used.)

Anti-Aging clinics are one of the few places that know the truth about safely using these drugs.

 

[e6er]

Being on HRT I have to get phlebotomies at least 1 time per month, otherwise I suffer from increased anger, and redness around the neck. After giving blood I feel a little more relaxed. I'm up around a 19 when they prick my finger with the needle, any higher and they will not draw blood. My doc checks my blood pressure and I'm always at moderate. The pins they use to pull my blood are rediculously big, it's painful especially when the blood won't flow and it feels like I have a knife in my arm.

I'm only taking 80mgs per week of cyp.

Ps. I don't see how 200-300mgs is a TRT dose. I'm sitting at a 800 test level with my 80mgs per week, base line was mid 100's.

 

[brutale]

Honesly, I think the absolute best way, as far as safety while also maintaining gains, is to stack 1 or 2 AAS @ a total not to exceed 500-600mg and/or do burst cycles.

I am on TRT (which I fought forever to get them to raise my dose beyond 50mg per week.) I take between 200 and 300mg/wk of testosterone but I split it up in 3 doses, as to not spike so much.

I think a lot of TRT stuff should be carried over to bodybuilding, especially low-dose HcG and low doses of adex to keep everything in check.

High DHT/Estradiol is BAD. High testosterone, not so bad. I really wish doctors were more open to helping people juice safely (ie monthly bloodwork, especially when methylated orals are used.)

Anti-Aging clinics are one of the few places that know the truth about safely using these drugs.

bro, I agree with your comments about moderation and learning from trt - tho bb'ers know a ton about managing the sides of exogenous hormones.

Some of your comments aren't right IMHO.
200-300mg. Test is more than TRT. And plain ol' TRT (e.g. 100mg) can certainly cause polycythemia. Just ask Maldorf.

Also, it is the trough levels of testosterone which are associated with elevated HCT. You don't want steady high levels all the time, e.g. by cruising with 250mg. Spikes are less of an issue.

Now, I actually use a protocol like the one you mention, 200+ of cyp... for other reasons ... recognizing that I have to watch HCT like a hawk.

Finally, dht is rough on the hairline and prostate for sone people, but is less likely to cause elevated hct than more anabolic stuff like test, eq, or deca.

Transdermal trt tends to cause less hct trouble than cyp (for similar avg blood levels of TT) because there is more dht conversion (5a reductase in skin) and lower trough levels due to fluctuations.

 

[Userat204]

There is a lot of good info here that is opening my eyes. Bp has been getting high on cycles when it never did before and I'm suprised to read about snoring because I never did and over the last several months during cycles my girl tells me I snore like crazy when I never did over the past 5 years.

These are the things most people don't want to talk about because they only want to see the benefits and not the risks.

 

[maldorf]

As much as I hate it, I have to be honest with myself and my fiance. I am an addict. The most complex part about this is that I have a real need for both pain meds and hormones. (I'm hypopituitary and suffer chronic pain, both from the same incident.) I hope not to offend you, but it sounds like you too have an addiction. The best thing I ever did was open up 100% to my fiance. When we fight, sure, she throws it in my face, but I am glad someone knows what I take, how much...etc. And bottom line, she cares and still loves me.

Honesly, I think the absolute best way, as far as safety while also maintaining gains, is to stack 1 or 2 AAS @ a total not to exceed 500-600mg and/or do burst cycles.

I am on TRT (which I fought forever to get them to raise my dose beyond 50mg per week.) I take between 200 and 300mg/wk of testosterone but I split it up in 3 doses, as to not spike so much.

I think a lot of TRT stuff should be carried over to bodybuilding, especially low-dose HcG and low doses of adex to keep everything in check.

High DHT/Estradiol is BAD. High testosterone, not so bad. I really wish doctors were more open to helping people juice safely (ie monthly bloodwork, especially when methylated orals are used.)

Anti-Aging clinics are one of the few places that know the truth about safely using these drugs.

Oh yes I undoubtedly admit that I was addicted to using AAS and it took a heart attack to stop me. Now Im not addicted anymore though! Hallelujah!

 

[maldorf]

.

I'm only taking 80mgs per week of cyp.

Ps. I don't see how 200-300mgs is a TRT dose. I'm sitting at a 800 test level with my 80mgs per week, base line was mid 100's.

Yeah, I know. I really get sick of seeing guys posting that they are doing HRT doses and then when you find out how much they are doing it ends up being 2 to 3x a normal HRT dose. Reckless to say the least.

 

[maldorf]

Also, it is the trough levels of testosterone which are associated with elevated HCT. You don't want steady high levels all the time, e.g. by cruising with 250mg. Spikes are less of an issue.

.

I think this is an important point you make. I asked my endo if he thought I would do better with my HGB/HCT if I did my shots 2x per week rather than just once a week and from his experience he said it wouldnt make a difference. It wasnt until I started cruising on 200-300 mg/wk test inbetween my cycles that I really got the high levels. Prior to that when I was just cycling and getting off and going clean I was never alerted by my docs about having high levels. I think the duration you are on is more important than weekly dosge per se, and perhaps its the total dosage in milligrams over a given amount of time that is most influencial. Thats just a hypothesis. Now I must admit that prior to the year before my heart attack I was like most everyone else and just getting one CBC done each year at my yearly physical. The year before my heart attack I tested high at my physical and then therafter leading up to my heart attack I was very aware of my hgb and even bought a monitor for home use. The doc was testing it about once every 3 months to see if it was dropping. Then came doing phelbotomies to get it down etc.

 

[ssdark1]

I think this is an important point you make. I asked my endo if he thought I would do better with my HGB/HCT if I did my shots 2x per week rather than just once a week and from his experience he said it wouldnt make a difference. It wasnt until I started cruising on 200-300 mg/wk test inbetween my cycles that I really got the high levels. Prior to that when I was just cycling and getting off and going clean I was never alerted by my docs about having high levels. I think the duration you are on is more important than weekly dosge per se, and perhaps its the total dosage in milligrams over a given amount of time that is most influencial. Thats just a hypothesis. Now I must admit that prior to the year before my heart attack I was like most everyone else and just getting one CBC done each year at my yearly physical. The year before my heart attack I tested high at my physical and then therafter leading up to my heart attack I was very aware of my hgb and even bought a monitor for home use. The doc was testing it about once every 3 months to see if it was dropping. Then came doing phelbotomies to get it down etc.

firstly....maldorf, thanks for the message you perpetuate on the board, it is a big part of what makes this board stand out from the rest.

secondly, and i realize im putting you in the spot here so feel free to not answer...knowing what you know now, if you were going to blast and cruise how would you go about doing it in the safest possible manner? dosages, compounds, blast length, anti-e's, preventative supplements and other preventative measures?

big question i know. if your not comfortable answering i completely understand.

 

[maldorf]

firstly....maldorf, thanks for the message you perpetuate on the board, it is a big part of what makes this board stand out from the rest.

secondly, and i realize im putting you in the spot here so feel free to not answer...knowing what you know now, if you were going to blast and cruise how would you go about doing it in the safest possible manner? dosages, compounds, blast length, anti-e's, preventative supplements and other preventative measures?

big question i know. if your not comfortable answering i completely understand.

I really dont want to offer to much advice since I failed so miserably myself. I would just urge people to not cruise at all unless they are older males that might actually need HRT. If youre older and feel like you need HRT then I would see a doc and get it legally by script and be monitored by that doc. Get a CBC every 3 months. So someone that might need HRT would take just 100mg/wk test while they cruise in between cycles.

I wouldnt cycle on for more than 10 weeks, and get off or decrease dosage at the first sign of trouble: high bp, high hematocrit/hemoglobin, heart arrythmias, constant high resting heart rate are just some that come to my mind. Dont try to weather the storm, get the hell of the drugs or at least decrease the dosage ASAP.

Dont ever start increasing the dosage on your cycle when you stop growing. Just be happy with what you got that cycle and call it a day and get off since youre not growing anymore. Set a ceiling for yourself of what dosage you wont go over on a cycle and stick to it.

Me personally, I would only use test and thats it.

Do a CBC every 3 months to look at things like hemoglobin/hematocrit. Probably need to look at liver enzymes.

As far as knowing if you have genetic problems like clotting, the only way to know that is to look at family history and then get DNA tests run along with other tests for clotting etc. I think if you have a family history of heart disease in your family that you should rethink your usage. If clotting is in the family I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Just a few things that come to my mind now.

 

[ssdark1]

I really dont want to offer to much advice since I failed so miserably myself. I would just urge people to not cruise at all unless they are older males that might actually need HRT. If youre older and feel like you need HRT then I would see a doc and get it legally by script and be monitored by that doc. Get a CBC every 3 months. So someone that might need HRT would take just 100mg/wk test while they cruise in between cycles.

I wouldnt cycle on for more than 10 weeks, and get off or decrease dosage at the first sign of trouble: high bp, high hematocrit/hemoglobin, heart arrythmias, constant high resting heart rate are just some that come to my mind. Dont try to weather the storm, get the hell of the drugs or at least decrease the dosage ASAP.

Dont ever start increasing the dosage on your cycle when you stop growing. Just be happy with what you got that cycle and call it a day and get off since youre not growing anymore. Set a ceiling for yourself of what dosage you wont go over on a cycle and stick to it.

Me personally, I would only use test and thats it.

Do a CBC every 3 months to look at things like hemoglobin/hematocrit. Probably need to look at liver enzymes.

As far as knowing if you have genetic problems like clotting, the only way to know that is to look at family history and then get DNA tests run along with other tests for clotting etc. I think if you have a family history of heart disease in your family that you should rethink your usage. If clotting is in the family I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Just a few things that come to my mind now.

fair enough, and good advice...thanks maldorf.

just from researching these are my thoughts on blast and cruise...

test only

5-600 mgs blast, max out that dose as far as size goes, get lean and be happy

cruise at 200mgs a week or less depending on your blood test results

baby aspirin a day

blood panel a few times a year

give blood every 3-4 months

cardio

eat clean and healthy

eat grapefruit

stay hydrated

obviously these arent my suggestions, just things ive read DC, phil, maldorf and others say....thought it would help to list them all in the same post.

 

[maldorf]

fair enough, and good advice...thanks maldorf.

just from researching these are my thoughts on blast and cruise...

test only

5-600 mgs blast, max out that dose as far as size goes, get lean and be happy

cruise at 200mgs a week or less depending on your blood test results

baby aspirin a day

blood panel a few times a year

give blood every 3-4 months

cardio

eat clean and healthy

eat grapefruit

stay hydrated

obviously these arent my suggestions, just things ive read DC, phil, maldorf and others say....thought it would help to list them all in the same post.

The giving blood is a great thing to do all around, and I would do it as often as they permit you to.

 

[10brandonr]

I would also like to add that if you are at that point where you are taking a naringin supplement, I think it would also be beneficial to add lowdose aspirin or a Resveratrol supp. Naringin works to induce erythrocyte aggregation which lowers hematocrit by phagocyte removal, while Resveratrol inhibits platelet aggregation (similar to aspirin), a process that is greatly enhanced by anabolic steroids.

 

[maldorf]

I would also like to add that if you are at that point where you are taking a naringin supplement, I think it would also be beneficial to add lowdose aspirin or a Resveratrol supp. Naringin works to induce erythrocyte aggregation which lowers hematocrit by phagocyte removal, while Resveratrol inhibits platelet aggregation (similar to aspirin), a process that is greatly enhanced by anabolic steroids.

Some things I wish I had heard about before my clot. Now Im on coumadin, so Im covered. I must admit that Ive never heard of naringin. Ive heard of reseveratrol, but know nothing of it. Are these two substances prescription only or can you get over the counter? Perhaps expand on these two if you could. I for one would like to hear more, I think some guys on here would like to know too.

 

[Kaladryn]

Just to be clear, 200mg/week of test will put a decent sized person at around 1200-1300 total testosterone, this is about DOUBLE what a normal TRT dose would be.