Max low glycemic carbs on Keto....?

[ronnie0072]

What is the maximum number is grams of low glycemic carbs you can have in a day and still stay in ketosis? I have about 50 grams pre training with weights. Useally oats or corn. Am I right in my approch?

 

[halflife]

From reading Lyle McDonald's stuff, it varies slightly per person, and on what activity you do and timing of carbs. But less than 100g he says.

I've read Palumbo recommends less than 50, but I'm pretty sure that's all trace and fiber.

But also Lyle McDonald, and I agree, says being in ketosis is just a side effect of the diet - He states it's not required to get into ketosis the 'max lose fat' window.

 

[lilarnold]

replace those carbs preworkout with some fats

 

[gelatine]

replace those carbs preworkout with some fats

Why would you want a bunch of fat in your stomach before working out?

Try 50g of carbs after working out instead.

 

[halflife]

Why would you want a bunch of fat in your stomach before working out?

Try 50g of carbs after working out instead.

Absolutely, do something like 50g carbs AFTER workout, from plain oats with 2 scoops of whey isolate. Like I said before, lets not ask 'will this keep me using ketones as fuel' but 'will this still optimize my fat loss w/ muscle preservation' -- yes.

But I will say some people do use and believe in 'lilarnolds' comment.

 

[lilarnold]

Absolutely, do something like 50g carbs AFTER workout, from plain oats with 2 scoops of whey isolate. Like I said before, lets not ask 'will this keep me using ketones as fuel' but 'will this still optimize my fat loss w/ muscle preservation' -- yes.

But I will say some people do use and believe in 'lilarnolds' comment.

i would ask ........what which way will make me feel like shit?

not being in ketosis (he isnt doing a "keto" diet if not in "ketosis")will leave you lethargic and irritable. keep eating carbs and your brain will continue to look for sugar, which in turn will make you feel lethargic and sluggish.......sounds like a great workout environment....LOL

if your gonna do a ket diet then do it. if you want to eat carbs, cycle them. both ways work alone but are horrible in conjunction with one another.


one more thing you can ask yourself is how much glycogen/ carbs do you use during an intense weight training session? ....from what i have seen and read its about 30-40g for a 200-250 pound athlete.........if your eating 50g in trace carbs from nuts and veggies, you'll be just fine. all that other 50g is gonna do is keep you out of ketosis

 

[Phidias]

Why would you want a bunch of fat in your stomach before working out?

Maybe because he's actually doing a keto diet...

Ronnie, as lilarnold already stated, if you decide to diet keto style do it 100% or don't do it... you're not supposed to consume ANY carb. Period.

 

[halflife]

Maybe because he's actually doing a keto diet...

Ronnie, as lilarnold already stated, if you decide to diet keto style do it 100% or don't do it... you're not supposed to consume ANY carb. Period.

Phidias much respect bro! I love your contributions.

But lets evaluate this (tell me if I'm wrong)

"diet keto style" is what you said... so you and the original poster are either talking about the 'ketogenic diet' or a 'diet that keeps you in ketosis' right?


So lets look at both possibilities:

'ketogenic diet'
-How many of them are out there? Lyle McDonald wrote a couple hundred page book called "The Ketogenic Diet" and said you can take up to 100g of carbs and still be in ketosis and on his 'ketogenic diet.'
-Dave Polumbo's as well. He has his clients take his formula of Fiberlyze which has 9.5g of carbs in it (yes fiber but they are carbs, which you said "you're not supposed to consume ANY carb. Period."). He says stay under 50g.
-Those are the two most popular that I can think of in this industry.

'diet that keeps you in ketosis'
-Look at the research, it varies in between 50-100g of carbs max - depends on activity and metabolism and chemicals.


I only stepped in here because of the 'gurus' in this industry that think it's zero carbs - and bash it. The truth is the whole western society (the whole world too) needs to be adapting to this type - the way our genome is adapted to eat - of diet before we all die of the underlying diseases of the Metabolic Syndrome.

 

[halflife]

To the OP:
get the book 'the ketogenic diet' as I mentioned above.

If not then eat green veggies at every meal, they are mostly fiber and don't impact glucose. Adding 50g of PWO nutrition is up to you, from research it does take you out of ketosis, but you get back into it quickly since it will be low gi and you were already depleted. Also metformin will do it quicker. In addition keep the low intensity cardio up (125-130) once a day 30-60 min - that will help you to stay in ketosis.

There's a lot more tips and guidelines, but those are some basic ones.

 

[Phidias]

Halflife,

What I meant with my "absolutely no carb" comment is just that if I was to diet this way, it'd be easier on my mind to know I'm not taking any chance.

Each body being different, who can say for sure that it takes 40, 50 or 70g of carbs to get out of ketosis?

At least with 0g, you're safe and won't worry each time you eat your 20g of oats or tomato sauce... see my point?

 

[halflife]

Halflife,

What I meant with my "absolutely no carb" comment is just that if I was to diet this way, it'd be easier on my mind to know I'm not taking any chance.

Each body being different, who can say for sure that it takes 40, 50 or 70g of carbs to get out of ketosis?

At least with 0g, you're safe and won't worry each time you eat your 20g of oats or tomato sauce... see my point?

I agree, with 0g your safer to be in ketosis.

But I disagree 100% that anyone should go there- humans NEED fiber(carbohydrate) whether it's from veggies, supplement, or animal eyes or intestines - doesn't matter. Fiber is a true essential nutrient. The mechanism of fiber in ANYONE'S digestive system is the same - it doesn't effect glucose and won't effect ketosis.

With a little research no one does debate the fact fiber mess with the use of ketones as primary fuel. Fiber has endless benefits with hunger and 'fat' removal from intestines, etc.

"At least with 0g, you're safe and won't worry each time you eat your 20g of oats or tomato sauce... see my point?"
-I see your point, and many will argue (not me) that with that little bit extra carbs,while still in ketosis, you can preserve more muscle and have more energy for workouts and for recovery. But I'm not sold on that- research doesn't strongly back it up.

I think we can all agree on these couple topics for keeping in ketosis:
-Fiber is allowed
-Any other CHO will risk taking out of ketosis, and you must be careful of this because everyone is different, it's probably not worth risk.

sound ok?

 

[halflife]

Personally I've had great success with this diet, but done in phases - slowly drop carbs till 'ketosis phase':

I'll start dropping till I have 2 PWO carb meals - 50~g each
then couple weeks later drop to 1 PWO carb meal -50~g each
then couple weeks later no PWO, 2 cups green veggies each meal, PWO is just a normal meal
From there if I need get leaner, I'll manipulate protein by 70~g and fats a little.

Increasing cardio length throughout.

'the ketogenic diet' book really taught me that being in ketosis is not the important thing.

Not up for debating my methods. Just put this out there to help OP and others.

 

[Phidias]

sound ok?

YES!

Even though it's kinda hard to get a lot of fibers without also adding unnecessary carbs...

 

[bling]

i can do no carbs, start 75% fat and 25 % pro, for a couple days while lifting, then how much and when do you guys up the protien or the ratio, what degree of purple are you guys gettingat and when?

 

[Pekkerwood]

When I used to do Keto diets and BodyOpus type diets, if I stayed in ketosis as measured by the "Keto Stix" I was not hungry. If I bumped out of the window with carbs the hunger returned. I am one of those guys that the diet really worked. I really don't know if it was the best muscle sparing but it was an easy diet as I had no hunger.