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Mixing SEO & Gear Still Not Resolved (to my satisfaction)
xcelbeyond
Better than avg BB'er
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: West Coast
Posts: 336
Mixing SEO & Gear Still Not Resolved (to my satisfaction)
Here is a cumulation of my various posts and selective responses on this issue. Hopefully I will get a dialoque going on this board.
I've done some research and have discovered a potential problem with how I was going to take SEO and gear. I originally heard that mixing gear in same pin with SEO was the way to go. In fact, I even heard that mixing was one of the "pro's secrets."
I came across a thread that said if you mix the 2 together, the gear will release into your system much slower and throw off post-cycle Clomid therapy. I guess this isn't a problem if you're on all the time, but I still cycle. In fact, BigA answered one of my inquiries stating he doesn't mix the two (in same pin) for this reason (he wants full effect of gear - not a delayed reaction).
The post that raised this issue was made by Synthol (wonder what he peddles). My assumption is that gear molecules are not chemically bound, in any way, to the MCT oils in the SEO.
I posed this issue to Animal. While "A" is not the most "personable" bro, he is one very intelligent dude. Here's our dialog:
xcel-
This was posted over at another board:
quote:
Mixing is not a good idea because Posing oil is designed to have longer retention in the tissue, AS inj to disperse quick. If you mix you risk the AS being suspended in tissue and not being active....so even when you are OFF you may have HPTA off becasue a low amount of AS seeping into body from the mixed injection.
"A"-
That is true in that, the depot lasts much longer with synthol, so you would still have AS coming out.
xcel-
Can you tell me if this is accurate? I would think dispersion would be related to ester not the oil. Or does the ester bind with the oil?
"A"-
It's actually related to both, but it too complicated and not examined for every ester. The longer esters would stay in the depot longer.
~end
Here are some responses I got from Muscle Trainee over at AE:
Response #1
I cannot imagine why there might be a significant delay in absorption, should gear be mixed with SEO. The gear molecules are not chemically bound, in any way, to the MCT oils in the SEO, so where would the delay come from?
I have mixed both and find no such delay. Either some theoretician is splitting hairs, or somebody had a bad batch of gear, blamed it on the SEO, and the whining about it got spread around the Boards.
Response #2
I begin by saying that I, too, respect Animal, but his "it's too complicated for me to explain to you" line is nothing but a cop-out, and highly unlike him to escape like that.
The fact is that the depot is nothing more than a transport mechanism for the ester. The ester is free to be absorbed by the muscle fascia, and enter into the bloodstream.
~end
I got this incredible/understandable answer from brianharper94 over at BBE - thought I'd share it here:
The reason for the delayed release of AS when it's mixed with synthol is due to the fact that the synthol actually creates a pocket full of oil in the muscle and it is said to be non-permeable. In other words, it's not the binding of the AS to the synthol, but the fact that the Synthol temperarily "traps" part of the AS inside of it's oil pocket. Until this oil starts to dispurse (which could take weeks), some of the AS is likely to be stuck inside of it. What I would suggest is running the synthol in the same shot as the AS for the first half of your cycle, and then start injecting them separately.
Another Muscle Trainee Response - #3
Still no good.
Unless you inject the SEO too fast, and forms an abcess, the oil spreads out fairly quickly and spreads the muscle fibers apart. I've used the stuff, and I've seen how the localized swelling distributes into an overall muscle fullness, in less than 24 hours.
So, again, I say the ester is free to move about and be absorbed by the muscle fascia.
~end
So - all my shit finally arrived and I'll be starting my 10-weeker tomorrow. I'll be mixing prop and EQ with Syntherol for 1st couple of weeks - see how how it feels/reacts. Last 6 weeks I'll be adding Fina to mix. I may not mix the gear in for the last several weeks?!?!?
xcelbeyond
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02-02-2002 07:33 AM
MikeS
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 160
A pretty concise post there. Ive given it a bit of thought too.
So this is by no means anything but my opinion. I figure that there may be a slight delay. One comparable to the difference of injecting an acetate in oil, as compared to water based suspension. In other words not that much. Not enough to cause a problem with delayed onset affecting the end of cycle by more that 1-2 days. I believe its the ester that more determines the
onset of the drug. The oil does spread rather quickly through the muscle, and I dont think it actually traps much more than regular
oil. So if youre expecting quick results from a fast acting ester, it may affect this to a small degree. But with your enanthate/deconate type (long acting) esters will not have any real impact on your cycle.
Last edited by MikeS on 02-02-2002 at 09:01 AM
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02-02-2002 08:57 AM
xcelbeyond
Better than avg BB'er
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: West Coast
Posts: 336
Thanks for the feedback MikeS!
Shameless bump - for more
xcelbeyond
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02-03-2002 11:39 PM
Ry Roid
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 214
I am NO SCIENTIST!!
All I know is what works on me and I LOVE mixing the 2 together for a few reasons:
1) I believe that it gives a better blown up look.
2) I do ALL site shots so why the fuck am I gonna split them up. Shit I don't have enough spots to poke now.LOL
3) It technically can slow down the release of the gear but, I seriously have not had a problem w/ that EVER.
4) In my little mind I like to think that the SEO stretches the fascia and allows the gear to not only do it's job and get into the bloodstream but, aids in the stretching.
RY
__________________
You can determine a man's worth by the amount of criticism that comes out of his mouth.
-Niche
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02-04-2002 03:52 AM
Big A
IFBB PRO / Moderator
Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 428
Re: I am NO SCIENTIST!!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ry Roid
4) In my little mind I like to think that...
RY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I call you pea brain then?? LOL
Little my ass!
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02-04-2002 07:22 AM
Ry Roid
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 214
I am not the best at explaining things technically but, I like to think I can explain things for the "Ordinary" man.hehehe
RY
__________________
You can determine a man's worth by the amount of criticism that comes out of his mouth.
-
xcelbeyond
Better than avg BB'er
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: West Coast
Posts: 336
Mixing SEO & Gear Still Not Resolved (to my satisfaction)
Here is a cumulation of my various posts and selective responses on this issue. Hopefully I will get a dialoque going on this board.
I've done some research and have discovered a potential problem with how I was going to take SEO and gear. I originally heard that mixing gear in same pin with SEO was the way to go. In fact, I even heard that mixing was one of the "pro's secrets."
I came across a thread that said if you mix the 2 together, the gear will release into your system much slower and throw off post-cycle Clomid therapy. I guess this isn't a problem if you're on all the time, but I still cycle. In fact, BigA answered one of my inquiries stating he doesn't mix the two (in same pin) for this reason (he wants full effect of gear - not a delayed reaction).
The post that raised this issue was made by Synthol (wonder what he peddles). My assumption is that gear molecules are not chemically bound, in any way, to the MCT oils in the SEO.
I posed this issue to Animal. While "A" is not the most "personable" bro, he is one very intelligent dude. Here's our dialog:
xcel-
This was posted over at another board:
quote:
Mixing is not a good idea because Posing oil is designed to have longer retention in the tissue, AS inj to disperse quick. If you mix you risk the AS being suspended in tissue and not being active....so even when you are OFF you may have HPTA off becasue a low amount of AS seeping into body from the mixed injection.
"A"-
That is true in that, the depot lasts much longer with synthol, so you would still have AS coming out.
xcel-
Can you tell me if this is accurate? I would think dispersion would be related to ester not the oil. Or does the ester bind with the oil?
"A"-
It's actually related to both, but it too complicated and not examined for every ester. The longer esters would stay in the depot longer.
~end
Here are some responses I got from Muscle Trainee over at AE:
Response #1
I cannot imagine why there might be a significant delay in absorption, should gear be mixed with SEO. The gear molecules are not chemically bound, in any way, to the MCT oils in the SEO, so where would the delay come from?
I have mixed both and find no such delay. Either some theoretician is splitting hairs, or somebody had a bad batch of gear, blamed it on the SEO, and the whining about it got spread around the Boards.
Response #2
I begin by saying that I, too, respect Animal, but his "it's too complicated for me to explain to you" line is nothing but a cop-out, and highly unlike him to escape like that.
The fact is that the depot is nothing more than a transport mechanism for the ester. The ester is free to be absorbed by the muscle fascia, and enter into the bloodstream.
~end
I got this incredible/understandable answer from brianharper94 over at BBE - thought I'd share it here:
The reason for the delayed release of AS when it's mixed with synthol is due to the fact that the synthol actually creates a pocket full of oil in the muscle and it is said to be non-permeable. In other words, it's not the binding of the AS to the synthol, but the fact that the Synthol temperarily "traps" part of the AS inside of it's oil pocket. Until this oil starts to dispurse (which could take weeks), some of the AS is likely to be stuck inside of it. What I would suggest is running the synthol in the same shot as the AS for the first half of your cycle, and then start injecting them separately.
Another Muscle Trainee Response - #3
Still no good.
Unless you inject the SEO too fast, and forms an abcess, the oil spreads out fairly quickly and spreads the muscle fibers apart. I've used the stuff, and I've seen how the localized swelling distributes into an overall muscle fullness, in less than 24 hours.
So, again, I say the ester is free to move about and be absorbed by the muscle fascia.
~end
So - all my shit finally arrived and I'll be starting my 10-weeker tomorrow. I'll be mixing prop and EQ with Syntherol for 1st couple of weeks - see how how it feels/reacts. Last 6 weeks I'll be adding Fina to mix. I may not mix the gear in for the last several weeks?!?!?
xcelbeyond
__________________
Lift smarter, not more
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
02-02-2002 07:33 AM
MikeS
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 160
A pretty concise post there. Ive given it a bit of thought too.
So this is by no means anything but my opinion. I figure that there may be a slight delay. One comparable to the difference of injecting an acetate in oil, as compared to water based suspension. In other words not that much. Not enough to cause a problem with delayed onset affecting the end of cycle by more that 1-2 days. I believe its the ester that more determines the
onset of the drug. The oil does spread rather quickly through the muscle, and I dont think it actually traps much more than regular
oil. So if youre expecting quick results from a fast acting ester, it may affect this to a small degree. But with your enanthate/deconate type (long acting) esters will not have any real impact on your cycle.
Last edited by MikeS on 02-02-2002 at 09:01 AM
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
02-02-2002 08:57 AM
xcelbeyond
Better than avg BB'er
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: West Coast
Posts: 336
Thanks for the feedback MikeS!
Shameless bump - for more
xcelbeyond
__________________
Lift smarter, not more
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
02-03-2002 11:39 PM
Ry Roid
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 214
I am NO SCIENTIST!!
All I know is what works on me and I LOVE mixing the 2 together for a few reasons:
1) I believe that it gives a better blown up look.
2) I do ALL site shots so why the fuck am I gonna split them up. Shit I don't have enough spots to poke now.LOL
3) It technically can slow down the release of the gear but, I seriously have not had a problem w/ that EVER.
4) In my little mind I like to think that the SEO stretches the fascia and allows the gear to not only do it's job and get into the bloodstream but, aids in the stretching.
RY
__________________
You can determine a man's worth by the amount of criticism that comes out of his mouth.
-Niche
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
02-04-2002 03:52 AM
Big A
IFBB PRO / Moderator
Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 428
Re: I am NO SCIENTIST!!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ry Roid
4) In my little mind I like to think that...
RY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I call you pea brain then?? LOL
Little my ass!
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
02-04-2002 07:22 AM
Ry Roid
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 214
I am not the best at explaining things technically but, I like to think I can explain things for the "Ordinary" man.hehehe
RY
__________________
You can determine a man's worth by the amount of criticism that comes out of his mouth.
-
