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my friends doctors opinion of Steriods

Johnny Smiles

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Joined
Jun 9, 2009
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2,568
Friend went to his new doctor today and here are some quotes from the doctor (this doctor studied medicine and graduated 2004):

When told ONLY testosterone is used NOT other compounds:
"Using only testosterone will minimize some risk and cause LESS of an imbalance in the body but that much testosterone and carrying the unnatural mass will lead to damaging health. The main concern is prostate problems and cardiac problems resulting from an enlarged heart."

When asked about health concerns using steroids:
"High dose long term steroid use is what causes the most damage. Most consequesnces of long term steroid use surfices in later years after prolonged use."

When asked how to get off of steroids:
"Just taper off. Allow the body some gradual time to adjust and recover."

Thought it was interesting he didn't jump on the bandwagon and say they were the devil, but did say long term use is most dangerous. i thought not using any PCT was kinda interesting. my friend told him all about nolvadex, hcg, clomid protocols and he just said to "just taper off."

i found it interesting. any experiences you guys have with doctors and their opinions?
what do you think abou these responses?
-JS
 
Well

Friend went to his new doctor today and here are some quotes from the doctor (this doctor studied medicine and graduated 2004):

When told ONLY testosterone is used NOT other compounds:
"Using only testosterone will minimize some risk and cause LESS of an imbalance in the body but that much testosterone and carrying the unnatural mass will lead to damaging health. The main concern is prostate problems and cardiac problems resulting from an enlarged heart."

When asked about health concerns using steroids:
"High dose long term steroid use is what causes the most damage. Most consequesnces of long term steroid use surfices in later years after prolonged use."

When asked how to get off of steroids:
"Just taper off. Allow the body some gradual time to adjust and recover."

Thought it was interesting he didn't jump on the bandwagon and say they were the devil, but did say long term use is most dangerous. i thought not using any PCT was kinda interesting. my friend told him all about nolvadex, hcg, clomid protocols and he just said to "just taper off."

i found it interesting. any experiences you guys have with doctors and their opinions?
what do you think abou these responses?
-JS

I think I have been saying this for 20 years........I am not your doctor am I? I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.........
 
prostate

i belive the doctor is mistaken about testosterone and prostate . prostate issues are more a matter of too much estrogen in men. the logic is that most prostate problems arise in older men when testosterone is low and estrogen is higher. you would expect if testosterone were the culprit the majority of prostate problems would be seen in teenage boys who have the highest levels of testosterone.
 
i belive the doctor is mistaken about testosterone and prostate . prostate issues are more a matter of too much estrogen in men. the logic is that most prostate problems arise in older men when testosterone is low and estrogen is higher. you would expect if testosterone were the culprit the majority of prostate problems would be seen in teenage boys who have the highest levels of testosterone.


True...I've always wondered about this...Doesn't test. convert to estrogen tho?...




LIPS
 
correct but

True...I've always wondered about this...Doesn't test. convert to estrogen tho?...




LIPS

the malority of the male population that get prostate issues later in life are not or ever have been on anabolic steroids. i would be intersted though to see if there is a study on the steroid users from the 60's and early 70's relating to higher incedences of prostate problems.
 
a little more info

PRIMARY CAUSE AND THERAPY FOR PROSTATE CANCER
PART 1 of 2





By Dr. James Howenstine, MD.
March 22, 2007
NewsWithViews.com

The main factor responsible for the rapidly rising incidence of prostate cancer in men and breast cancer and uterine cancer in women appears to be the excessive exposure of modern men and women to estrogen. If testosterone had anything to do with prostate cancer there should be an epidemic of this disease in teenage males. All persons on planet earth are getting, for the first time in history, steady large exposure to estrogen from inhaled fuel exhaust, plastics, estrogen implants in meat and fed to chickens, herbicides, pesticides and propylene glycol.

All disease arises from metabolic imbalance.[1] When the underlying metabolic imbalance is corrected the disease goes away. If you fail to keep up the correction for the underlying metabolic imbalance (i.e. revert back to whatever created the metabolic imbalance in the first place), the disease will come back. This is called preventative medicine. Cancer is no different--it is caused by an underlying metabolic imbalance that turns normal cells into cancer cells.

How Does Excess Estradiol Cause Cancer of Prostate, Breast and Uterus?

Researchers such as Ercole Cavalieri Ph.D., Director of the Eppley Institute for Research in Cancer at the University of Nebraska have learned that a metabolite or byproduct of estradiol and estrone(the two most potent human estrogens) is destructive to adenine and guanine. These two purines along with the pyrimadines cystine and thymine compose the 4 nitrogenous bases of DNA. The diminished production of DNA permits gene mutations that can lead to cancer. Other estrogen metabolites are metabolized in the liver and excreted in the urine. The dangerous metabolite of estradiol and estrone is found most often in people eating more of dangerous transfats, fewer of good fats (extra virgin olive oil, fish oil) and less of sulfur containing amino acids found in beans, garlic, onions, cauliflower, cabbage.

The normal protection against gene mutation involves maintaining good physiologic levels of progesterone and testosterone. Stress increases the cortisol levels which makes the body resistant to other hormones and increases oxidation which is at the heart of how DNA damage is caused by these estrogen metabolites.

Males develop falling levels of testosterone and progesterone as they age. At the same time the level of estradiol is rising producing estrogen dominance in elderly males. Men with low levels of testosterone[2] are at greater risk of developing prostate cancer than men with higher testosterone levels.

Estrogen dominance activates the oncogene Bel-2 while progesterone and testosterone activate the protector gene p53. In laboratory cultures of prostate cancer cells, breast cancer cells and endometrial cancer cells the proliferation of cancer cells is produced by Bel-2 and prevented by p53.

What Causes Estrogen Dominance?

Estrogen dominance causes more cases of cancer of prostate, breast and endometrium than any other cause. Common causes for estrogen dominance include:

Insulin Resistance Males with the highest rates of insulin resistance were compared to males with the best insulin sensitivity. When males with the highest insulin resistance and greatest waist to hip ratios were combined the risk of prostate cancer was increased by 8.21 times.

Stress Cortisol blood levels rise in stress which impairs the action of insulin permitting blood sugar values to rise and insulin to be less effective(insulin resistance).

Obesity accelerates estrogen production in males because fat cells convert testosterone and androsterone into estrogens which stimulates the growth of the prostate gland. Generally the more fat a man carries the higher his estradiol levels will be. To make matters even worse for males the enzyme aromatase converts testosterone to estrogen. This is less likely to occur when testosterone therapy is taken in cream form(compounding pharmacists make this)rather than by injection. This action of aromatase can also be blocked by extract of passion flower plant.

Transfats found in pastries and processed foods promote weight gain, diabetes, arteriosclerosis and cancer

Embryonic Damage[3] Excess estrogen exposure to differentiating cells particularly in the testes and ovaries between days 18 and 23 is common and important. This damage results in delayed puberty and infertility in males and miscarriages, precocious puberty and progesterone lack by age 35 in women.

Xenoestrogen exposure Males working in factories making herbicides have 9X greater incidence of prostate cancer. Exposure to insect sprays, outgassing from carpets, etc in homes also puts estrogen into the body.

Liver Diseases and Alcoholism Impaired metabolism of estrogens leads to excess estrogen and enlarged breasts in males.

Other causes for estrogen dominance include sleep deprivation, working nights in bright lights and trying to sleep in daytime, fluoride exposure from water and toothpaste, environmental estrogens(outgases from carpets and home chemicals), sedentary lifestyle, polluted air(vehicle exhaust) and hypothyroidism.
 
When I talked to my Dr about what I was doing, he didn't know much about PCT but I told him some of the stuff like HCG, Nolva and he knew what they were and in concept said they would help but he hadn't researched it enough to talk in depth about it.

He says the only real way to test how your health is doing is to get blood tests.

He has never told me steroids are bad or will cause problems. He just said like anything else, use it in moderation, don't go crazy because more is not always better and your body will eventually come back to its normal function.
 
When I talked to my Dr about what I was doing, he didn't know much about PCT but I told him some of the stuff like HCG, Nolva and he knew what they were and in concept said they would help but he hadn't researched it enough to talk in depth about it.

He says the only real way to test how your health is doing is to get blood tests.

He has never told me steroids are bad or will cause problems. He just said like anything else, use it in moderation, don't go crazy because more is not always better and your body will eventually come back to its normal function.

Thats because he is a general pratitioner. Just because he's a DR doesn't mean he knows everything or specializes in Testosterone treatment. DR's receive alot of schooling/training. They learn thousands of things. Unless they specialize in a specific field they might have little or no knowledge on the subject. Now if you speak to a DR that specializes in TRT or is familiar with it, I'm sure you would have gotten a different answer.

Getting blood test done is the only way to go.
 
Thats because he is a general pratitioner. Just because he's a DR doesn't mean he knows everything or specializes in Testosterone treatment. DR's receive alot of schooling/training. They learn thousands of things. Unless they specialize in a specific field they might have little or no knowledge on the subject. Now if you speak to a DR that specializes in TRT or is familiar with it, I'm sure you would have gotten a different answer.

Getting blood test done is the only way to go.

Your totally right, I didn't mention that he was just my normal dr because I thought thats what the OP was talking about but I agree with you 100%.

I have never been to a TRT specialist, guess its time I do
 
The Five Minute Analysis

Always good to go into the visit armed with the following blood panels:

Complete Lipid
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel W/EGFR
Hormones:
DHEA-S
Cortisol
Total Estrogens
Estradiol
Progesterone
TSH
T3
T4
IGF-1
PSA
B-12

Ensure you reference your individual levels and lab results and cross reference them with independent research and validated studies. Absent the above information, you should have probably asked the mechanic at your local shop.

The above post regarding the dangers of high levels of total estrogens is a major issue. Estrogen control is critical for males and females. Just my 2 cents.
 
How in the world is "tapering off" supposed to work. Once you are shut down, you are shut down....after 20 weeks of Test your not going to start your natural production up while still taking 100mgs a week,
 
How in the world is "tapering off" supposed to work. Once you are shut down, you are shut down....after 20 weeks of Test your not going to start your natural production up while still taking 100mgs a week,

I agree.. while I certainly respect medical professionals, I think this advice is pretty irresponsible. I kind of make the guess that the reason the Doctor couldn't say "40/30/20/20 nolva protocol is a good place to start" is because there isn't enough medical studies done for him to claim such a thing, but at the same time I doubt there are any medical studies that back up the claim that "tapering off" is superior to traditional gym rat PCT.
 
How in the world is "tapering off" supposed to work. Once you are shut down, you are shut down....after 20 weeks of Test your not going to start your natural production up while still taking 100mgs a week,

Interestingly enough, a lot of the vets and guys that have been doing this for a long time don't think a PCT is necessary and actually will prolong how long you are shut down for. Essentially you can think of it as "artificially" keeping your levels higher, but then when you end the PCT your body is going to have to do all of it's own recovering anyway.. there's a few threads about this over here and a lot of good opinions.
 
Interestingly enough, a lot of the vets and guys that have been doing this for a long time don't think a PCT is necessary and actually will prolong how long you are shut down for. Essentially you can think of it as "artificially" keeping your levels higher, but then when you end the PCT your body is going to have to do all of it's own recovering anyway.. there's a few threads about this over here and a lot of good opinions.

if someone has a plausible way of explaining it im all ears...i will do some searching...i definitely dont think i know it all..
 
if someone has a plausible way of explaining it im all ears...i will do some searching...i definitely dont think i know it all..

the theory behind it is...everyone gets shut down when X-amount of synthetic test is added, for hypothetical lets say mine is when my body sees 90mgs of test it starts to shut down. so when i come off, i shoot 200mg for week, then 150mg for week, then 100mg for week, then 75mg for week, then 50mg for week, and even 25mg for week....now, not knowing where my body would pick back up i should have covered it and hypothetically speaking i did at the 75mg point my body should have started its own production, meanwhile it was a slow controlled time...as opposed to cutting is cold turkey and probably actually hitting zero test at a point and then having it slowly start coming up....leaving probably more of a crash tired feeling...theory being that even a little bit of test you should be able to hold just a tad more muscle all factors considered...ive tried both ways and def felt better with taper then ending at 600mg cold turkey.
next try i make i am going to start adding nolv at the 150mg point and taper a little longer at the 100mg point, in theory hoping to kick LH prod a little quicker hopefully getting the body to start producing at a higher level during taper(hypoth. at 100mg instead of 90mg)
 
the theory behind it is...everyone gets shut down when X-amount of synthetic test is added, for hypothetical lets say mine is when my body sees 90mgs of test it starts to shut down. so when i come off, i shoot 200mg for week, then 150mg for week, then 100mg for week, then 75mg for week, then 50mg for week, and even 25mg for week....now, not knowing where my body would pick back up i should have covered it and hypothetically speaking i did at the 75mg point my body should have started its own production, meanwhile it was a slow controlled time...as opposed to cutting is cold turkey and probably actually hitting zero test at a point and then having it slowly start coming up....leaving probably more of a crash tired feeling...theory being that even a little bit of test you should be able to hold just a tad more muscle all factors considered...ive tried both ways and def felt better with taper then ending at 600mg cold turkey.
next try i make i am going to start adding nolv at the 150mg point and taper a little longer at the 100mg point, in theory hoping to kick LH prod a little quicker hopefully getting the body to start producing at a higher level during taper(hypoth. at 100mg instead of 90mg)


This is correct.

To add:

Most who do this approach kick their cycle with HCG to keep willy and dilly in check. the tapper eliminates the "crash" you will experience as this bro is saying. In theory, by doing the taper, keeping your acorns in check is suppose to actually allow you to kick back on sooner. Make sense?

I'm not to sure tho, that while still tapering you will produce any test. Your just setting up a better environment for test to come back on, rather than going cold turkey, then hitting PCT. This method has been practiced for decades. In my opinion the guys that use this protocol always seem to hold more muscle. I wouldn't know personally, as I don't do anything illegal.:D




.
 
This is correct.

To add:

Most who do this approach kick their cycle with HCG to keep willy and dilly in check. the tapper eliminates the "crash" you will experience as this bro is saying. In theory, by doing the taper, keeping your acorns in check is suppose to actually allow you to kick back on sooner. Make sense?

I'm not to sure tho, that while still tapering you will produce any test. Your just setting up a better environment for test to come back on, rather than going cold turkey, then hitting PCT. This method has been practiced for decades. In my opinion the guys that use this protocol always seem to hold more muscle. I wouldn't know personally, as I don't do anything illegal.:D




.

Another thing people need to consider is that the long esters are going to taper themselves. Half life of cyp is like 12 days? If one were tapering down, and ending at 100, then 50 a week... that 50 is going to drop in half every 12 days, and by the time it drops down to 25, 12.5, etc.. your body should have kicked some of it's production back up (we're talking a month long period of getting this hormone out of your body). So by doing a long ester and tapering you should essentially be giving your body a month or two to kick it's own testosterone back into gear without sacrificing much, if any, of your gains.

This is how I understand it, and what I've heard from people... I'm no expert though and I have no experience personally :)
 
LOL

I think I have been saying this for 20 years........I am not your doctor am I? I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.........

YUP! was hoping you would see this phil.:) -JS
 
i agrree but...

i belive the doctor is mistaken about testosterone and prostate . prostate issues are more a matter of too much estrogen in men. the logic is that most prostate problems arise in older men when testosterone is low and estrogen is higher. you would expect if testosterone were the culprit the majority of prostate problems would be seen in teenage boys who have the highest levels of testosterone.

the doctor was told this as an argument of him saying prostate problems, etc. and he said that TRUE it is in men with elevated estrogen which is usually the case in men that have high amounts of testosterone, there can also be high amounts of estrogen. is what he said. -JS
 

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