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MY way to Bulk & Cut at the same time:

Dave_19

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This is a technique I use on myself and clients. I remember 6yrs ago on these forums people were always asking (bulk or cut?, I always hated that question and I know I'm not alone?)

Why not both, via a lean bulk? Or in my case alternating the two. I would say a traditional lean bulk is consistent, usually with rules, maybe with some exceptions like 1/cheat day/week. But still very consistent and structured.

The style I prefer, (especially when losing body fat is a higher concern) is a hybrid of the two.

People seem to agree we cannot "gain muscle" and "lose fat" at the same time, but what is time? the same minute & second of a day? Sure, but that’s not the time were concerned with, the fact is you can do both at the same time, in fact in the same day. It all depends on what state your body is in, and we can manipulate that state with what we do with our bodies.

With that said let me give an example of how this works;
Days 1-3 will may be low carb, you might have 80,70,60 complex carbs/day, no simple sugars, 20g or so trace/fibrous carbs, then hit your maintenance cals the rest of the way using healthy fats/protein. (most healthy fats are during the last meal) These 3 days are the days you will do the most cardio, especially fasted in the AM. Your longest 3 sessions of the week (which can be your only 3) should be low carb day 3 AM & PM, and the AM of day 4 fasted (which would be a high carb day) duration also should be longest 60mins Ideally to avoid being too catabolic, on your AM high day after carbing up for 3 days feel free to extend the session beyond 60 min's if fat loss is a higher priority)

Days 4-7:
Day 4 would be a high carb day, a bit unique because you start it off with your main cardio session of the week VERY early. You are most carb depleted this AM, and it will be the most effective of all sessions throughout the week. I also recommend on day 3 to cut off eating in general very early, Lets say you do cardio at 8am, cut off all meals by 10pm, giving you a 10 hour fasted window, to almost insure passing through ketosis.

The remainder of the day would by very high carb, PWO would be some thing like a 2:1 ratio matlo dex:whey shake right after cardio. remaining 5 meals would be tapering down High-> lower GI complex carbs (i.e. white rice, white potato, brown rice, oats, yam) You would stay awake later this day to fit in a few extra meals. The last meals would contain no carbs, Ideally 2-3 more meals would work great, meals 1-2 would be high protein, no carb, clean/low fat, last meal would be a healthy fat load w/ some casein.

These low carb days you will mainly be focusing on cardio one of the 3 days you will do resistance training at least, but focus on a group that is not lagging, not a real focus ( I know many of you will choose legs :) )

Now days 5-7:
Carb load continues, catches:
1) All carbs are complex w/ exception of PWO Malto dextrin or similar GI based carb, even dextrose on my protocol I think is a bit too steep.
2)stay 10-20% only above maintenance cals
3)meals 1-5/6 all contain complex carbs, but the last meal of the night must be carb free
4) final meal should be a mix between healthy fats/Casein (i.e. nuts/fat free cottage cheese)

That is the diet portion for the weekly bulk phase, but your training also is much different. You must prioritize your work out splits around this window of time. Let’s say Chest/tris, Back/Bis are your main lagging groups? Well on day 6 you would hit 1 group and day 7 you would hit the next. What if you have TWO more lagging groups? Well hit the least important on day 5 (first carb up day) but start the carb up early and train late at night)
the last group train in the morning of your 1st low day while you're still full of glycogen (from your previous 3 high days, but train the previous day early in the day Ideally)

Cardio is NOT necessary at all these days if you get in 3 1hr sessions during the times I mention above, unless dieting goals are very demanding. At that point you may modify even more than cardio for this regiment.

This is the basic structure of the cutting/bulking diet I use but there is A LOT of tweaking for the individual as progress is made. If you have any questions on it please PM me or ask. It’s not theory at this point also, I have used this style for over 6yrs with incredible success cutting body fat in half and double strength lifts. I'm excited to show you my new client once his comp passes with this style, thanks guys.
 
Last edited:
This is a technique I use on myself and clients. I remember 6yrs ago on these forums people were always asking (bulk or cut?, I always hated that question and I know I'm not alone?)

Why not both, via a lean bulk? Or in my case alternating the two. I would say a traditional lean bulk is consistent, usually with rules, maybe with some exceptions like 1/cheat day/week. But still very consistent and structured.

The style I prefer, (especially when losing body fat is a higher concern) is a hybrid of the two.

People seem to agree we cannot "gain muscle" and "lose fat" at the same time, but what is time? the same minute & second of a day? Sure, but that’s not the time were concerned with, the fact is you can do both at the same time, in fact in the same day. It all depends on what state your body is in, and we can manipulate that state with what we do with our bodies.

With that said let me give an example of how this works;
Days 1-3 will may be low carb, you might have 80,70,60 complex carbs/day, no simple sugars, 20g or so trace/fibrous carbs, then hit your maintenance cals the rest of the way using healthy fats/protein. (most healthy fats are during the last meal) These 3 days are the days you will do the most cardio, especially fasted in the AM. Your longest 3 sessions of the week (which can be your only 3) should be low carb day 3 AM & PM, and the AM of day 4 fasted (which would be a high carb day) duration also should be longest 60mins Ideally to avoid being too catabolic, on your AM high day after carbing up for 3 days feel free to extend the session beyond 60 min's if fat loss is a higher priority)

Days 4-7:
Day 4 would be a high carb day, a bit unique because you start it off with your main cardio session of the week VERY early. You are most carb depleted this AM, and it will be the most effective of all sessions throughout the week. I also recommend on day 3 to cut off eating in general very early, Lets say you do cardio at 8am, cut off all meals by 10pm, giving you a 10 hour fasted window, to almost insure passing through ketosis.

The remainder of the day would by very high carb, PWO would be some thing like a 2:1 ratio matlo dex:whey shake right after cardio. remaining 5 meals would be tapering down High-> lower GI complex carbs (i.e. white rice, white potato, brown rice, oats, yam) You would stay awake later this day to fit in a few extra meals. The last meals would contain no carbs, Ideally 2-3 more meals would work great, meals 1-2 would be high protein, no carb, clean/low fat, last meal would be a healthy fat load w/ some casein.

These low carb days you will mainly be focusing on cardio one of the 3 days you will do resistance training at least, but focus on a group that is not lagging, not a real focus ( I know many of you will choose legs :) )

Now days 5-7:
Carb load continues, catches:
1) All carbs are complex w/ exception of PWO Malto dextrin or similar GI based carb, even dextrose on my protocol I think is a bit too steep.
2)stay 10-20% only above maintenance cals
3)meals 1-5/6 all contain complex carbs, but the last meal of the night must be carb free
4) final meal should be a mix between healthy fats/Casein (i.e. nuts/fat free cottage cheese)

That is the diet portion for the weekly bulk phase, but your training also is much different. You must prioritize your work out splits around this window of time. Let’s say Chest/tris, Back/Bis are your main lagging groups? Well on day 6 you would hit 1 group and day 7 you would hit the next. What if you have TWO more lagging groups? Well hit the least important on day 5 (first carb up day) but start the carb up early and train late at night)
the last group train in the morning of your 1st low day while you're still full of glycogen, BUT train the previous day early in the day Ideally)

Cardio is NOT necessary at all these days if you get in 3 1hr sessions during the times I mention above, unless dieting goals are very demanding. At that point you may modify even more than cardio for this regiment.

This is the basic structure of the cutting/bulking diet I use but there is A LOT of tweaking for the individual as progress is made. If you have any questions on it please PM me or ask. It’s not theory at this point also, I have used this style for over 6yrs with incredible success cutting body fat in half and double strength lifts. I'm excited to show you my new client once his comp passes with this style, thanks guys.


Thanks for the info Dave and let us know how your client does. I have been looking into this myself and would be greatly interested in seeing the results from this program!
 
Thanks for the info Dave and let us know how your client does. I have been looking into this myself and would be greatly interested in seeing the results from this program!

Thanks he finished well, its not a standard comp, once results go public I can post pics. If you're more interested in Pre-contest I have a very successful diet for that which is a Hybrid Keto/Carb cycling diet w/ extended high carb days. Honestly it seems we only need 6-8 weeks to prep an athete for a show using this style assuming he maintained healthy body fat year round.
 
Thats really intriguing. Most carb cycling diets i've seen are alternating days, with higher carbs on strength workout days. But I can see how particularly with someone who tends to slide into ketosis easily this would work far better.
 
I have always felt you could cut and build muscle at the same time...It's not easy to do, but it can be done...Kinda like growing into a show...It's very hard to do, but is done every year by someone out there...Its just finding the right ratio of pro to carbs, and the right amount of cardio...Ofcourse genetics will play into it to, but still it can pretty much be done by most...

chris
 
I have always felt you could cut and build muscle at the same time...It's not easy to do, but it can be done...Kinda like growing into a show...It's very hard to do, but is done every year by someone out there...Its just finding the right ratio of pro to carbs, and the right amount of cardio...Ofcourse genetics will play into it to, but still it can pretty much be done by most...

chris

You got it Chris.. I just think my description is a braud instruction set on how to balance it out. Hormones may be the biggest factor for its success but it does work when every things in harmony.
 
You got it Chris.. I just think my description is a braud instruction set on how to balance it out. Hormones may be the biggest factor for its success but it does work when every things in harmony.

Ofcourse anabolics will play a big part of it, but I still believe it can be done by natty's to...Its just they have to watch your food ratio's more, and really get the training down to the point, so they can train enough to grow, but not to much or they will overtrain pretty easy...Also, natty's can use OTC supplements like BCAA's, L-Glutimine, ect, ect...And those products will really help a true natty out...With guys that use anabolics, ofcouse just using the right products (hell any product as long as its real) will make a huge impact on there body...But things like HGH, insulin will make a bigger difference to lean down and grow than just using AAS alone...(When your trying to do both at the same time)

chris
 
Dave19...very interesting and looks like a solid plan. I have always wonder how some people try to do this lean bulk concept because those two words just do not make sense when used together, but sounds like you have a pretty good solution on how to LEAN UP with muscle while dropping bodyfat! Thanks for sharing...very good information! Experimentation is the key to this sport and changing the body! You are on the right track. Keep this information coming!
 
You should chat or trade ideas with BigKiwi sometime about this...he has a 2 week bulk, 2 week lean method that makes sense...if cycled correctly you should end up with lean muscle mass at the end. Obviously, all aspects of bodybuilding training, supplementation, eating, recovery, etc play a role in his plan, but again over time it sounds like something that could work, again depending on structure and so forth. You idea is not the same, but has similarities...his just is more in 2 week increments until you get that point! We all can learn so much from each other, even though at the end of the day it will require the work on all aspects on are part! Thanks again for sharing!
 
doing something similar currently, but having low carbs on my 3 non training days and 100g of carbs would be the lowest for me. I'm over 6 foot so lower than that and I'm superflat:eek: also have carbs on my last meal of the day on high days
 
Thanks he finished well, its not a standard comp, once results go public I can post pics. If you're more interested in Pre-contest I have a very successful diet for that which is a Hybrid Keto/Carb cycling diet w/ extended high carb days. Honestly it seems we only need 6-8 weeks to prep an athete for a show using this style assuming he maintained healthy body fat year round.

Can you post the precontest prep diet?
 
come on guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! get interested in this thread, this is far more beneficial to most of us than most of the balkan labs this BD that thats up the top of the forum at the mo!!!!!!!!!!

yo dave19 plse show us your pre comp template, and MANY thanks for taking the time to write this piece and sharing your hard work with me
 
Thanks he finished well, its not a standard comp, once results go public I can post pics. If you're more interested in Pre-contest I have a very successful diet for that which is a Hybrid Keto/Carb cycling diet w/ extended high carb days. Honestly it seems we only need 6-8 weeks to prep an athete for a show using this style assuming he maintained healthy body fat year round.

this sounds very interesting mate as i am trying to do exactly this and lean bulk now as i have just finished dieting.

i may give this ago.

also what would you class as a healthy bodyfat level to come to you for show prep 12-15% or lower?
 
Nice thread....I have tried several diets in the past (mostly bulking) but really want to prepare for a contest and get the rewards (feeling of accomplishment) for my endless sacrifices in the gym. Thanks for the info and I look forward to your pre-contest template.
 
Bump/agreed

come on guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! get interested in this thread, this is far more beneficial to most of us than most of the balkan labs this BD that thats up the top of the forum at the mo!!!!!!!!!!

yo dave19 plse show us your pre comp template, and MANY thanks for taking the time to write this piece and sharing your hard work with me

Agree w/ your statement,much more beneficial to most than more "advanced" discussions attm.
 
I have done many, many versions of this with myself and many hobbiests and it is by far the best approach for the detail oriented body sculptor.

I'm not referring to competitors.

I have always called this approach toggling (i.e. back & forth).

I have seen success with splitting the week in half and working out M,T,W w/ above maintenance higher carbs, followed by easing into below maintenance low carbs higher fats w/ cardio days primarily 1/2 the day on R, F, S and 1/2 day on Sun.

I have seen success with Every other day approaches.

I have seen success using the minimal amount of testosterone for 17 days w/ a 2 day PCT and 14 days natural, followed by back on for 17 days.

LH (& I assume FSH) w/ this approach never drops to zero and full recovery is a matter of 2 days.

This is an anabolic minimalist approach w/ a bi-month toggle.

On top of this you can layer the bi-weekly lose fat/ build muscle toggle.

There are a lot of ways to do these things either naturally, w/ minimalist anabolics, with conventional cycle anabolics.

I have put two hobbiests on an EOD severe toggle w/ GH & GHRP/GHRH and watched one lose 40 pounds of fat while consistently gaining weekly strength and the other has lost 18 pounds and gained a little size as well as strength.

Anyway this is not my thread... I don't know nothing 'bout no competitors and my experience is with hobbiests.

I just wanted to support Dave_19's thread and say "you're damn right it can be done".

Most importantly toggling allows you to shed a bit of fat before the body compensates and then build a little tissue by skewing nutrient partitioning toward anabolism as a mini-rebound.

Micro changes add up.
 
I have done many, many versions of this with myself and many hobbiests and it is by far the best approach for the detail oriented body sculptor.

I'm not referring to competitors.

I have always called this approach toggling (i.e. back & forth).

I have seen success with splitting the week in half and working out M,T,W w/ above maintenance higher carbs, followed by easing into below maintenance low carbs higher fats w/ cardio days primarily 1/2 the day on R, F, S and 1/2 day on Sun.

I have seen success with Every other day approaches.

I have seen success using the minimal amount of testosterone for 17 days w/ a 2 day PCT and 14 days natural, followed by back on for 17 days.

LH (& I assume FSH) w/ this approach never drops to zero and full recovery is a matter of 2 days.

This is an anabolic minimalist approach w/ a bi-month toggle.

On top of this you can layer the bi-weekly lose fat/ build muscle toggle.

There are a lot of ways to do these things either naturally, w/ minimalist anabolics, with conventional cycle anabolics.

I have put two hobbiests on an EOD severe toggle w/ GH & GHRP/GHRH and watched one lose 40 pounds of fat while consistently gaining weekly strength and the other has lost 18 pounds and gained a little size as well as strength.

Anyway this is not my thread... I don't know nothing 'bout no competitors and my experience is with hobbiests.

I just wanted to support Dave_19's thread and say "you're damn right it can be done".

Most importantly toggling allows you to shed a bit of fat before the body compensates and then build a little tissue by skewing nutrient partitioning toward anabolism as a mini-rebound.

Micro changes add up.

Dat, you always impress me
 
Have you read “Burn the Fat –Feed the Muscle “ ?
 

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