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New to HCG Usage

  • Thread starter Deleted member 106824
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D

Deleted member 106824

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Been on my 80mg TRT for 3 years now. Kept total test around 600 and E2 around 40-45. Been on 1mg arimidex with that for 1 year. Keeps total test around 8-900 and E2 around 20.

I've been talking to my doctor (Dr. Rand McClain) about adding HCG to see if I notice any benefit. He's pretty lax about it, his mindset is "why not try it" after talking with an expert on the subject. We're thinking 500iu 3x per week. Also probably wanting kids in a couple of years and he feels the earlier you start the better. Just wanted to clarify some things before beginning.

1.) I just found it arrived at my new apartment a few days before I moved in...meaning it was sitting outside for a few days in 75-95 degree heat (not reconstituted). Could this be an issue? It seems to be all at the bottom of the vial and stuck there i.e. shaking the bottle won't move it. Not sure if that is typical or not. Haven't tried reconstituting it yet.

2.) I am experimenting with some diet modifications for my GI issues for the next few months and want to see how it impacts lipids, therefore I didn't want to start the HCG for probably a good 4 months or so since it will presumably increase testosterone and estrogen which could change my lipids independent of diet. The box says it expires in October. Has anyone actually had an issue letting it sit past the "expiration date"? I know the dates are bullshit for a lot of meds including my testosterone but I've also heard HCG is more susceptible to damage

3.) It stays it should be used within 30 days of reconstituting. These are 12,000iu vials so at 500iu 3x per week that would last me 8 weeks. Again anyone have an issue leaving it in the fridge for longer than the recommended 30 days?

4.) What benefits, if any, have you noticed to adding HCG to your HRT protocol? In theory there are LH receptors all over that should be activated by the HCG and have benefits but I don't hear about too many people staying on HCG at all times of their HRT
 

Thebigone

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I am a big believer in hCG during HRT. It helps regulate hormones and luteinizing hormone which is important not just for the testicles but for the brain as well. 250iu 3x/wk

The CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL - Part Deux - Dr. John Crisler

When it’s not reconstituted it was fine being outside like that. It will also last longer than eight weeks don’t worry about that. Reconstitute with Bacteriostatic water not sterile water. Using a 1cc slin pin add 2ml bac water. Assuming your insulin pin is a U-100 it will say 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100. Each “10” is 250iu. I personally just draw out “30” inject “10” SubQ Monday, wipe the tip with an alcohol swab put the cap back on and put it in the fridge and it’s ready for the next dose Wednesday and Friday.
 

fyronix

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I am a big believer in hCG during HRT. It helps regulate hormones and luteinizing hormone which is important not just for the testicles but for the brain as well. 250iu 3x/wk

The CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL - Part Deux - Dr. John Crisler

When it’s not reconstituted it was fine being outside like that. It will also last longer than eight weeks don’t worry about that. Reconstitute with Bacteriostatic water not sterile water. Using a 1cc slin pin add 2ml bac water. Assuming your insulin pin is a U-100 it will say 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100. Each “10” is 250iu. I personally just draw out “30” inject “10” SubQ Monday, wipe the tip with an alcohol swab put the cap back on and put it in the fridge and it’s ready for the next dose Wednesday and Friday.


Do you feel that HCG causes any estrogen issues that need to be managed? What amount of testosterone do you use alongside it?
 
D

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I am a big believer in hCG during HRT. It helps regulate hormones and luteinizing hormone which is important not just for the testicles but for the brain as well. 250iu 3x/wk

The CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL - Part Deux - Dr. John Crisler

When it’s not reconstituted it was fine being outside like that. It will also last longer than eight weeks don’t worry about that. Reconstitute with Bacteriostatic water not sterile water. Using a 1cc slin pin add 2ml bac water. Assuming your insulin pin is a U-100 it will say 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100. Each “10” is 250iu. I personally just draw out “30” inject “10” SubQ Monday, wipe the tip with an alcohol swab put the cap back on and put it in the fridge and it’s ready for the next dose Wednesday and Friday.

I heard some interesting stories about Dr. Crisler, and that he was the one who started the idea of "LH receptor burnout" which now has apparently been debunked....but this is anecdote from a doctor I know, I don't know much about it.

When you say "It will also last longer than eight weeks don’t worry about that" do you mean while it is dry or when it is reconstituted?

Each 12,000iu vial of HCG I was sent had a 6ml vial of bacteriostatic water attached to it for mixing. If I mixed the 6ml with the 12,000iu that would make each "10" on the syringe 200iu. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, did you ever do TRT without HCG and if so what benefit have you noticed specifically from adding the HCG?
 

emeric delczeg

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I heard some interesting stories about Dr. Crisler, and that he was the one who started the idea of "LH receptor burnout" which now has apparently been debunked....but this is anecdote from a doctor I know, I don't know much about it.

When you say "It will also last longer than eight weeks don’t worry about that" do you mean while it is dry or when it is reconstituted?

Each 12,000iu vial of HCG I was sent had a 6ml vial of bacteriostatic water attached to it for mixing. If I mixed the 6ml with the 12,000iu that would make each "10" on the syringe 200iu. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, did you ever do TRT without HCG and if so what benefit have you noticed specifically from adding the HCG?

Before using HCG have checked out your sperm count and mobility.
 

Thebigone

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Do you feel that HCG causes any estrogen issues that need to be managed? What amount of testosterone do you use alongside it?

I use 20mg cyp ED. I haven’t noticed any estrogen effects from hcg.
 

Thebigone

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I heard some interesting stories about Dr. Crisler, and that he was the one who started the idea of "LH receptor burnout" which now has apparently been debunked....but this is anecdote from a doctor I know, I don't know much about it.

When you say "It will also last longer than eight weeks don’t worry about that" do you mean while it is dry or when it is reconstituted?

Each 12,000iu vial of HCG I was sent had a 6ml vial of bacteriostatic water attached to it for mixing. If I mixed the 6ml with the 12,000iu that would make each "10" on the syringe 200iu. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, did you ever do TRT without HCG and if so what benefit have you noticed specifically from adding the HCG?


I mean even when it’s reconstituted it’s not going to lose its affects after eight weeks. It might slightly be great but it’s so minimal you might be getting 245iu vs 250iu. I have not done TRT or a cycle without hCG

Yes your dosing is correct
 
D

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Before using HCG have checked out your sperm count and mobility.

Why, just for reference?

I asked a urologist a while back to test mine and he didn't want to do it. I could find another one and just make up a story about not being successful trying to get my girl pregnant but ultimately I'm not sure if the initial value matters much.

For what it's worth, my testicles are about half the size they used to be.

I mean even when it’s reconstituted it’s not going to lose its affects after eight weeks. It might slightly be great but it’s so minimal you might be getting 245iu vs 250iu. I have not done TRT or a cycle without hCG

Yes your dosing is correct

OK thanks. I have to go back and read the full article you listed but have you ever tried any other dosing protocol? How long have you been using HCG?

I have to try to remember the name of this expert Dr. McClain talks to but apparently it's not unusual for them to be using 1-2000iu several times per week.
 

Thebigone

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Why, just for reference?

I asked a urologist a while back to test mine and he didn't want to do it. I could find another one and just make up a story about not being successful trying to get my girl pregnant but ultimately I'm not sure if the initial value matters much.

For what it's worth, my testicles are about half the size they used to be.



OK thanks. I have to go back and read the full article you listed but have you ever tried any other dosing protocol? How long have you been using HCG?

I have to try to remember the name of this expert Dr. McClain talks to but apparently it's not unusual for them to be using 1-2000iu several times per week.


I did three cycles back in 2003-2005. During the cycles are used 500iu 2x/wk

In 2006 I went on HRT and used that protocol the entire time including when doing cycles. I used to do 500iu 2x/wk but cut it down to 250iu 3-4x/wk as I feel that will minimize estrogen even though I didn’t really notice any negatives from estrogen. Dr. Crisler mentioned somewhere that hCG should not be used over 500 IU in a single dose or it can do more damage than good. Something about desensitizing leydig cells. Can’t find that article though.
 
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Honu

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Here's my current protocol (first time user as well) for infertility (diagnosed with zero sperm count about 4 years ago) while also being on TRT.

Androgel 2 pumps daily for the past 6 years with NO HCG

Found a new physician who stopped the gel and has me on Cyp 200mg/week (admittedly taking 1 pump nightly for the remainder of my stash since I had three bottles left) and also HCG 240iu DAILY.
I could not convince her to prescribe HMG or Clomid and she wanted to wait 3 months to recheck my sperm count before making adjustments.
I've been on the new regiment for only 4 weeks and gained about 5 pounds, strength has increased, with stronger and more frequent erections. Doc told me my ejaculation volume should increase after two weeks but how the hell am i supposed to measure that, lol? I'm married so I always "deposit" and she always swallows so is she supposed to monitor how full her mouth gets, LMAO!
I guess ill update you on the effectiveness of the HCG if she gets pregnant or sperm check in two months.
 

Thebigone

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Also just to point out I think hCG let me and my wife have our kids much faster than if I never used it. I’ve been on gear/Hrt for over 10yrs and both our boys were conceived within only a few months of trying and I was on cycles both times. They are perfectly healthy. I always ran hCG during cycles and when I started HRT. I did one of those at home sperm tests a long time ago and it showed I had hardly any sperm count. But I assume my mobility was really high which let us conceive quickly.
 
D

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I did three cycles back in 2003-2005. During the cycles are used 500iu 2x/wk

In 2006 I went on HRT and used that protocol the entire time including when doing cycles. I used to do 500iu 2x/wk but cut it down to 250iu 3-4x/wk as I feel that will minimize estrogen even though I didn’t really notice any negatives from estrogen. Dr. Crisler mentioned somewhere that hCG should not be used over 500 IU in a single dose or it can do more damage than good. Something about desensitizing leydig cells. Can’t find that article though.

Oh yea, leydig cell desensitization is what this expert Dr. McClain talks to said is debunked. Apparently this isn’t actually seen anywhere in the literature. I’ll ask him next time the name of the guy he was talking about but apparently this is his area of interest.

The article you linked also brings up overstimulation of testicular aromatase. Not sure how Dr. McClain would respond to that one. I’m guessing you don’t take an AI? I’m on anastrazole so I should be covered.
 

Thebigone

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Oh yea, leydig cell desensitization is what this expert Dr. McClain talks to said is debunked. Apparently this isn’t actually seen anywhere in the literature. I’ll ask him next time the name of the guy he was talking about but apparently this is his area of interest.

The article you linked also brings up overstimulation of testicular aromatase. Not sure how Dr. McClain would respond to that one. I’m guessing you don’t take an AI? I’m on anastrazole so I should be covered.


I do but very low dose. Adex at only 0.125mg 3x/wk.
 
D

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Here's my current protocol (first time user as well) for infertility (diagnosed with zero sperm count about 4 years ago) while also being on TRT.

Androgel 2 pumps daily for the past 6 years with NO HCG

Found a new physician who stopped the gel and has me on Cyp 200mg/week (admittedly taking 1 pump nightly for the remainder of my stash since I had three bottles left) and also HCG 240iu DAILY.
I could not convince her to prescribe HMG or Clomid and she wanted to wait 3 months to recheck my sperm count before making adjustments.
I've been on the new regiment for only 4 weeks and gained about 5 pounds, strength has increased, with stronger and more frequent erections. Doc told me my ejaculation volume should increase after two weeks but how the hell am i supposed to measure that, lol? I'm married so I always "deposit" and she always swallows so is she supposed to monitor how full her mouth gets, LMAO!
I guess ill update you on the effectiveness of the HCG if she gets pregnant or sperm check in two months.

Lmao, thanks for the feedback.

I have to say though I imagine the changes you're experiencing are more from the huge increase in testosterone dosage. I don't know what your test levels were from 2 pumps of androgel per day but 200mg Test Cyp + 1 pump androgel per day + 240iu HCG daily will result in a HUGE increase in testosterone compared to what you were at before. Hell 200mg test cyp alone would have me at about 1500ng/dl so you could be around 2000ng/dl with that protocol.

Have you had bloodwork done before and after?
 
D

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Also just to point out I think hCG let me and my wife have our kids much faster than if I never used it. I’ve been on gear/Hrt for over 10yrs and both our boys were conceived within only a few months of trying and I was on cycles both times. They are perfectly healthy. I always ran hCG during cycles and when I started HRT. I did one of those at home sperm tests a long time ago and it showed I had hardly any sperm count. But I assume my mobility was really high which let us conceive quickly.

Interesting, well that's good to hear. I'm not too familiar with the quality of at-home sperm tests. I would like to have a baseline done but it's hard to fit in time-wise and finding a new doctor around here (just moved).

It seems like Honu above was also not told to come off of his TRT to increase his fertility either, but rather just given a script for HRT.
 

Thebigone

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Interesting, well that's good to hear. I'm not too familiar with the quality of at-home sperm tests. I would like to have a baseline done but it's hard to fit in time-wise and finding a new doctor around here (just moved).

It seems like Honu above was also not told to come off of his TRT to increase his fertility either, but rather just given a script for HRT.

For fertility if I had problems conceiving I would drop HRT in use Hcg at 500iu EOD, 50mg Clomid EOD and 75iu HMG EOD

But it’s always worth trying on HRT at first and if you don’t have success then you can try that.
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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will doing hcg before a blood test alter results ?

whatsup with these small vials where you can only inject 1,000 iu's per shot?

ive always thought 250-500 a few or couple times a week was best....


does anyone think hcg on a blast does anything?
 

Thebigone

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will doing hcg before a blood test alter results ?

whatsup with these small vials where you can only inject 1,000 iu's per shot?

ive always thought 250-500 a few or couple times a week was best....


does anyone think hcg on a blast does anything?

Yes it can alter testosterone, estrogen, progesterone and other hormones and blood tests.

Small vials are fine you just at the right amount of Bacteriostatic water and does it several times a week and lower doses is best.
 

FuriousAngus

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Watch out for E2. Once I added HCG to my 160mg/wk TRT my E2 jumped from 35 to 96 something. I was doing 300iu x2 a week if I recall.

I wasn't feeling terrible, nor was I suspecting high E2. I was honestly baffled when I got the results. My total only jumped from 700 to 1050 which is strange considering the massive jump in E2. Also, my free testosterone DOUBLED, ref range capped at 21 ng/dl and mine was 48.


It was all too much of a hassle to try and manage so I cut it out.
 
D

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Thebigone I know you mentioned the HCG should be fine especially if it hasn't been reconstituted but I wanted to clarify, is it supposed to be all stuck at the bottom before reconstitution? I assumed it would be loose upon shaking but its stuck down there.


Watch out for E2. Once I added HCG to my 160mg/wk TRT my E2 jumped from 35 to 96 something. I was doing 300iu x2 a week if I recall.

I wasn't feeling terrible, nor was I suspecting high E2. I was honestly baffled when I got the results. My total only jumped from 700 to 1050 which is strange considering the massive jump in E2. Also, my free testosterone DOUBLED, ref range capped at 21 ng/dl and mine was 48.


It was all too much of a hassle to try and manage so I cut it out.

Wow, huge jump in E2. I'm guessing you weren't on an AI? It seems like an AI is almost required for someone using HCG.

Did you notice any difference in how you felt?

According to the reference ranges, my 80mg TRT + 1mg Adex keeps my free test pretty much right at the top and sometimes over the range so I would imagine with HCG it could get quite high.
 

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