No Disrespect, but

PHIL HERNON · Sep 6, 2004

Winning your class in the North Amreicans should not be treated the same as the USA or Nationals. I see posts from the winners on other boards talking shit already. Stuff like, "I am in hiding", "I came out of nowhere", "I told you I would rock the world", etc.. Hilarious. Win the USA or Nationals then do good in a pro show then talk shit. Just my opinion. I am tired of seeing so many guys talk shit. Is there no shame anymore? Is anyone humble? Is anyone realistic? If you win you win, dont tell us about it. We can decide if you "rocked the world".

TooPowerful4u · Sep 6, 2004

LOL. I kinda agree and kinda not. I think North Americans is not a small regular show, just a step below USAs and Nationals so i think the winners deserve credit for their showing especially cuase the field was pretty decent this year from the names iv heard. I DO agree they should not be bragging though. I always hated the guys at shows when they are announced the winner they threw their hands up in the air n shit. Im gonna semi-quote 2 great athletes here, Cael Sanderson and Dorian Yates.

Dorian states that he never looked suprised or overjoyed when he won cuase he knew he gave it more than everyone else, so he EXPECTED to win. That i agree with, u dont go to a show to just "place" so when u win, it shouldnt be a shock. You can be happy, just be a sportsman about it.

Cael Sanderson said the same thing, that his father would kill him or his brothers if they ever showed much emotion after winning cuase they should always expect to win, if u dont then u already lost cause u didnt give it 100%.

rAJJIN · Sep 6, 2004

I agree 100%

If your that badass and noticable you shouldnt have to tell everyone yourself,lol ya think others would notice without having to shout it out.

BigKiwi is probably the most humble guy around here imo
should be a role model for us all.

PHIL HERNON · Sep 6, 2004

?

TooPowerful4u said:
LOL. I kinda agree and kinda not. I think North Americans is not a small regular show, just a step below USAs and Nationals so i think the winners deserve credit for their showing especially cuase the field was pretty decent this year from the names iv heard. I DO agree they should not be bragging though. I always hated the guys at shows when they are announced the winner they threw their hands up in the air n shit. Im gonna semi-quote 2 great athletes here, Cael Sanderson and Dorian Yates.

Dorian states that he never looked suprised or overjoyed when he won cuase he knew he gave it more than everyone else, so he EXPECTED to win. That i agree with, u dont go to a show to just "place" so when u win, it shouldnt be a shock. You can be happy, just be a sportsman about it.

Cael Sanderson said the same thing, that his father would kill him or his brothers if they ever showed much emotion after winning cuase they should always expect to win, if u dont then u already lost cause u didnt give it 100%.

How can everyone expect to win, then show no emotion when they lose. Life is about expressing ones self, why be fake and hide it. Just be realistic. Do you know how many guys on this site talk about turning pro or being a pro sometime soon? This site has been here 3 years, well, I have been on here that long. How many of these big mouths have turned pro? NONE, NADA, ZIPPO!!!!! About 20 of these guys and gals have talked about being a pro. A lot of guys are being misled by friends, family, the mirror, their unrealistic dreams. Bodybuilding is not a living, it is a hobby. There i sno such a thing as a PRO. You compete with the best in the world, then maybe be able to pay your bills back and break even. It is no lifestyle. Get an education, a job, an endorsement. Have a life. This is a hobby.Have fun with it. I could not imaging threatening to kill my children if they showed emotion in their sport. That is sad.

brachialis · Sep 6, 2004

...Pride comes before the Fall! Believe me they'll one day get a healthy slice of it!! Too bad some don't take note from a couple of the Olympians and others with CLASS, HUMILITY, and HONOR. Folks like Rulon Gardner, Bary Sanders, Michael Phelps, and Vanderlei Lima (Brazilian who got attacked while running the Marathon, didn't quit and didn't whine/complain/protest). It's sad though because in all honesty it discredits the sport.

Maverick · Sep 6, 2004

I agree with Phil 100%. Bodybuilding especially professional bodybuilding really isn't a lifestyle as Phil said. Only the top 3% or so of all the bodybuilders who are pro or ameatur make any kind of money from the sport so in reality how can you really be a professional if you don't make any money off of it.

If the IFBB were structured differently with contracts much like other professional sports then you could call it a contract. Yes athlets have contracts with weider but only a few , not everybody.

I don't know if I agree that the North Americans are a lesser show than the USA's or Nationals becuase there is some top notch physiques at those shows. When you only have one or two people able to turn pro yet there may be 4 or 5 that deserve it , you need to have 2 or 3 or even 4 shows, becuase remember, bodybuilders don't hand around long. Only a couple of years and then they fade away. Only the top guys hang around for any length of time or those that have other financial means to be able to do so.

I agree that if you have won a top national show to get your pro card you shouldn't be talking any kind of trash because you have yet to step on a pro stage. That is the same thing when college players sign big contracts to play in the NFL. And they either hold out for more money or whatever excuse they have and they have never played a down in the NFL. The NFL game is much different and harder than the college game, same as the professional stage is much tougher than the national stage. So those that have won thier pro cardas should get down and be thankful they have won it because in a subjective sport such as bodybuilding you got the judges eye on that particular day, maybe not because you were the best athlete on the stage.

Just my 2cc's.

Maverick

PHIL HERNON · Sep 6, 2004

Example

Again, just the facts. Abbass Khatami and Sam Zona, both class winners at the NAC, were maybe top 5 in the USA or Nationals.

G.E.R.M · Sep 6, 2004

..

phil, did you have this opinion BEFORE you turned pro..

i totally agree with you, i was just wondering if you came to this conclusion before everything or after your trials in life.

i am referring to it being a hobby and no a profession..

i know i could probably never win any show except a very small local one. but then again competition isnt my end goal.

Vander_V · Sep 6, 2004

PHIL HERNON said:
How can everyone expect to win, then show no emotion when they lose. Life is about expressing ones self, why be fake and hide it. Just be realistic. Do you know how many guys on this site talk about turning pro or being a pro sometime soon? This site has been here 3 years, well, I have been on here that long. How many of these big mouths have turned pro? NONE, NADA, ZIPPO!!!!! About 20 of these guys and gals have talked about being a pro. A lot of guys are being misled by friends, family, the mirror, their unrealistic dreams. Bodybuilding is not a living, it is a hobby. There i sno such a thing as a PRO. You compete with the best in the world, then maybe be able to pay your bills back and break even. It is no lifestyle. Get an education, a job, an endorsement. Have a life. This is a hobby.Have fun with it. I could not imaging threatening to kill my children if they showed emotion in their sport. That is sad.

If one can except LOSING then he can except VICTORY its that simple, its a sport some win some lose . Phil I dont look at it as a hobby a hobby to me is collecting baseball cards or buying old muscle cars to fix up THERES NO COMPETITION IN THAT but in BB its all about SPORT being competitive. NOT once would i ever say im gonna turn pro or im gonna do this and that I could care the less this ride will be over before i know it especially when my 1st child is born BB at that point will be gone so im just having fun, I here ya about BB now days taking things way to serious and as of lifestlye , ITA NO FUCKING LIFESTLYE ASK MENTZER OR WHEELER OR PRINCE not to mention many more theyll tell ya all about that, i let things fall into place and I also am one of the few who truley beleives BB is a sport and not a way of life .
Infact i remember replying to a post by weight77 he asked me if i would leave BB for a million $Bucks and i said OF COURSE I WOULD thats a no brainer does anyone realize what a fresh million in the bank can do, shit i could support 3 familys, the most important thing to me is Love then family then everything else . being a PRO only meens you were good enuff that ONE YR at NATIONALS OR USAs doesnt meen you are a legend and have made a sucessful and finacially stable life only the few who put their lives to the test are legends TO ME THATS A SAD TRADE OFF,,as for a PRO CARD its a card handed to you kind of like a degree BUT the only difference is you cant use that card for shit .

BB must be looked at as FUN a SPORT or a HOBBY when it becomes more then this then its time to re evaluate your LIFE and this i will always believe.

PHIL HERNON · Sep 6, 2004

HEY

Vander_V said:
If one can except LOSING then he can except VICTORY its that simple, its a sport some win some lose . Phil I dont look at it as a hobby a hobby to me is collecting baseball cards or buying old muscle cars to fix up THERES NO COMPETITION IN THAT but in BB its all about SPORT being competitive. NOT once would i ever say im gonna turn pro or im gonna do this and that I could care the less this ride will be over before i know it especially when my 1st child is born BB at that point will be gone so im just having fun, I here ya about BB now days taking things way to serious and as of lifestlye , ITA NO FUCKING LIFESTLYE ASK MENTZER OR WHEELER OR PRINCE not to mention many more theyll tell ya all about that, i let things fall into place and I also am one of the few who truley beleives BB is a sport and not a way of life .
Infact i remember replying to a post by weight77 he asked me if i would leave BB for a million $Bucks and i said OF COURSE I WOULD thats a no brainer does anyone realize what a fresh million in the bank can do, shit i could support 3 familys, the most important thing to me is Love then family then everything else . being a PRO only meens you were good enuff that ONE YR at NATIONALS OR USAs doesnt meen you are a legend and have made a sucessful and finacially stable life only the few who put their lives to the test are legends TO ME THATS A SAD TRADE OFF,,as for a PRO CARD its a card handed to you kind of like a degree BUT the only difference is you cant use that card for shit .

BB must be looked at as FUN a SPORT or a HOBBY when it becomes more then this then its time to re evaluate your LIFE.

Thats what I was trying to say!!!

mike ross · Sep 6, 2004

its not a profession at all...thats what my friends, patients, and clients cannot understand. ITS A HOBBY AT BEST. when you turn pro you are lucky if you have 5 good years. some can stretch it to 10-11 but they are the absolute best of the best. Unless you get endorsement contracts you are not going to make much money. I used to hang with aaron madron when i was on the west coast and guess what he spent on gear and blood work and doctors a year. Once we sat down and estimated it at 40-50k per year. You know how much money that is? Fucking ridiculous. he turned pro and then faded. never won a major show or anything. he is my boy and all but you gotta look at what he spent and where he got. the good news for him is his wife is hot, she takes care of him well, and they both enjoy running there gym. He makes good money off of that. not bodybuilding. he never did. he used his muscletech endorsement to pay for his years competing. AS PHIL SAID BREAK EVEN. THATS ALL HE EVER DID. BREAK EVEN.

look at why top pros now such as cutler and a few others and doing investment real estate. they are smart, theres no future or riches in the sport.

be realistic if you want to make this a life long dream. if you are in it for the money, you'll soon realize you have to spend too much to gain too little. Just look at the GNC show. spend all that money and time to win 15k? kiss my ass.

vander, your comments above are the smartest thing i have ever heard you say. great post.

T-MUSCLE · Sep 6, 2004

great thread

First of all Phil ,again and again puts great thoughts on paper ,very great post and thread coming from as inside as inside gets.....,. in my entire time of training and competing turning pro is not even among top goals ever ,since i have always been very realistic about BB.
and my dream my modivation come s from 2 places one is from just being and feeling good and the everyday ,everywhere i go commnets.., and never ,!except maybe 2 or 3 times in 22 years have comments been anything but positive and encouraging i probably say that is the main reward outside my self that i look forward too and as far as the second does have to do with competeing and my dream was always just to be a top national contendor ,which i feel is the ultimate ,turning pro is 50%genitic and 30%luck 20% is about YOU the athlete i have not the best genitics or not the best luck so always realisticly turning pro was never a even a long shot or desire ,i desire more realistic goals ..the ultimate being your best ,being happy and having the intestinail fortitude to be a national contendor is "ultimate highlight " for me

Vander that without any doubt is the best post you ever put on paper very nicely said and articulate ... beautiful, your whole manner of posting is so much on the pleasent side it changes the whole meaning of your words and now look forward to your post ,i cant command you enough on how much more enjoyable that is and so welcome bump to ya , takes a true man to change some bad practices w as humans fall into at time's grow and learn Muscle and MIND...

PHIL HERNON · Sep 6, 2004

sss tt oo ppp Tt ttt tTT tttt musk musk musckkkkcle

t-muscle said:
First of all Phil ,again and again puts great thoughts on paper ,very great post and thread coming from as inside as inside gets.....,. in my entire time of training and competing turning pro is not even among top goals ever ,since i have always been very realistic about BB.
and my dream my modivation come s from 2 places one is from just being and feeling good and the everyday ,everywhere i go commnets.., and never ,!except maybe 2 or 3 times in 22 years have comments been anything but positive and encouraging i probably say that is the main reward outside my self that i look forward too and as far as the second does have to do with competeing and my dream was always just to be a top national contendor ,which i feel is the ultimate ,turning pro is 50%genitic and 30%luck 20% is about YOU the athlete i have not the best genitics or not the best luck so always realisticly turning pro was never a even a long shot or desire ,i desire more realistic goals ..the ultimate being your best ,being happy and having the intestinail fortitude to be a national contendor is "ultimate highlight " for me

Vander that without anydoubt is the best post you ever put on papaer very nicelysaid and articulate ... beautiful

Nooww I am t t teary eyed

Vander_V · Sep 6, 2004

t-muscle said:
First of all Phil ,again and again puts great thoughts on paper ,very great post and thread coming from as inside as inside gets.....,. in my entire time of training and competing turning pro is not even among top goals ever ,since i have always been very realistic about BB.
and my dream my modivation come s from 2 places one is from just being and feeling good and the everyday ,everywhere i go commnets.., and never ,!except maybe 2 or 3 times in 22 years have comments been anything but positive and encouraging i probably say that is the main reward outside my self that i look forward too and as far as the second does have to do with competeing and my dream was always just to be a top national contendor ,which i feel is the ultimate ,turning pro is 50%genitic and 30%luck 20% is about YOU the athlete i have not the best genitics or not the best luck so always realisticly turning pro was never a even a long shot or desire ,i desire more realistic goals ..the ultimate being your best ,being happy and having the intestinail fortitude to be a national contendor is "ultimate highlight " for me

Vander that without any doubt is the best post you ever put on paper very nicely said and articulate ... beautiful, your whole manner of posting is so much on the pleasent side it changes the whole meaning of your words and now look forward to your post ,i cant command you enough on how much more enjoyable that is and so welcome bump to ya , takes a true man to change some bad practices w as humans fall into at time's grow and learn Muscle and MIND...

Thanks Tom I do appreciate your words , and i also agree with your post as well. Phil makes some great points and has helped me out with his honesty .

T-MUSCLE · Sep 6, 2004

and furthermore

that being said fuck it im doing open nationals and winning my pro card and fuck dennis james he is next at the arnold in march

who really runs the WEST COAST.....baby..

wyldeone · Sep 6, 2004

I Disagree on this one!

Phil,
In most cases I agree with you in regards to the caliber of athletes at the North Americans but when you have athletes like Sebastion Zona,Abbas,Brian Chamberlin,Lionel Brown,Darrell Terrell,Colette Nelson,ect..... It was a very good show this year, granted the depth wasn't there but the quality was where as this years USA's was very week across the board with the exception of a select few classes. Even the Jr. Nationals this year was more competetive than USA's, granted this year very well might have been a fluke for USA's but Gary Udit is a great guy and a great promoter and ran a great show therefore he had alot of great athletes show up for North America's. Now in regards to it comparing to Nationals your absolutetly correct North America's didn't compare at all in regards to talent of depth but I also feel it isn't fair to discredit those that won their respective classes and/or pro cards because regardless any national level show is tough regardless of who you are. I will tell you Brian Chamberlan was UNREAL the photo's don't do him Justice and Colette looked the best I have ever seen her look and I knew she would because I looked at her that Friday morning and she was very deserving of the class win and the overall. wyldeone

PHIL HERNON · Sep 6, 2004

Good point

wyldeone said:
Phil,
In most cases I agree with you in regards to the caliber of athletes at the North Americans but when you have athletes like Sebastion Zona,Abbas,Brian Chamberlin,Lionel Brown,Darrell Terrell,Colette Nelson,ect..... It was a very good show this year, granted the depth wasn't there but the quality was where as this years USA's was very week across the board with the exception of a select few classes. Even the Jr. Nationals this year was more competetive than USA's, granted this year very well might have been a fluke for USA's but Gary Udit is a great guy and a great promoter and ran a great show therefore he had alot of great athletes show up for North America's. Now in regards to it comparing to Nationals your absolutetly correct North America's didn't compare at all in regards to talent of depth but I also feel it isn't fair to discredit those that won their respective classes and/or pro cards because regardless any national level show is tough regardless of who you are. I will tell you Brian Chamberlan was UNREAL the photo's don't do him Justice and Colette looked the best I have ever seen her look and I knew she would because I looked at her that Friday morning and she was very deserving of the class win and the overall. wyldeone

Good point

zephyr22 · Sep 6, 2004

Well ill tell you this...

In my opinion it makes me laugh when I hear so and so on this board and that board saying Ill be a pro for sure. They say look at my genetics, look at my shape and what not and im only 19. You see that is the point your only 19 for gods sake. BB is not a living. You see these pros guest posing etc.... they do this a lot of the time just to pay their reg bills. If your lucky your good looking and could be marketable to supplement companys. All in all your treated like a puppet. And dont think for a minute that anyone gives a shit about you. You see when you get off all the gear etc... and are regular size people will say "hes all washed up" and shit like that. I saw it when Haney retired. You sill Phil hit it right on the head when he said being a pro BB is really worthless in the sense of making money, supporting a family etc. I have an education and continue to take courses because I love knowledge. I remember when Weight77 was really hyped up on turning pro etc...then Phil pretty much told him how it really was. I remember the anger and what not from weight77 but the reality is so what if you make it pro. If that makes you happy do it. Dont think for a minute that just because you make pro that you will do great in the pro ranks. And once agian no money. No disrespect meant to Weight77 as I was impressed with his deveolopement.

xcelbeyond · Sep 7, 2004

I'll throw in my $0.02 worth

Most of us are passionate and enjoy bodybuilding. It's not unlike any other sport you xcel in - if you don't want it bad enough, you won't do what it takes to accomplish it. Now with bodybuilding there's different levels of accomplishment: beach body, magazine cover, local/state level competitor, national level competitor and Pro.

Here's my take on those who think turning Pro in bodybuilding will be the end all to your financial woes - ask an accomplished Pro (like Phil Hernon) what the money's like.

I knew a freind who wanted to become a doctor (for the money, more than anything). I asked him if he talked to a doctor about how much money can be made, so he did. The doc told him given the numerous years of college, internship, then practical experience, he'd wish he'd invested his effort into a real business. While the money is good, it took what seemed like half his productive life to get to where he was making decent money. Now that he's making the money he has NO TIME to spend/enjoy it. He did say it was a very rewarding job in that he's able to help people get better.

Phil's just telling us what most should expect at that level. I think we're fortunate to have Phil's participation amongst us.