Observation

[PHIL HERNON]

After seeing pics of Atwood and Branch Warren, these guys are the thickest out there today. My problem with it is, and the reason I quit trying to get bigger when I was 285, is that it looks REALLY unhealthy. These guys look like they are ready to die. I am actually scared for these guys. How long can they go on?? Look at Wheeler, Long, Francois, Vince Commeford, JJ Marsh, etc.... It happens early in life then what do you do??? These guts are only 40 or so years old. There is a lot of life after 40, so I hear.

 

[Dom!nator]

I think they lose track while having so much succes and theyre just trying not to think of what may come in the future because they are enjoying so much of what is happening right now.

Imo you did the right thing bro, and I hope you can look back and feel the same way.

I think the issue here is: "ruhl VS dexter jackson" And where will the IFBB draw the line. What did coleman have to do to add on that 20 pounds in a year time?? What is your personal opinion in this? What role should the IFBB play in this matter?

 

[trunksy]

Amen

It depends on their luck with their training/bodies (I truely hope more luck than less). The human body is very adaptable even with as much tweaking as they do to it. Only god knows how they'll end up as they keep going after the elusive target of being thicker and thicker but often, I ask myself how long the IFBB can sustain itself like this, as well. Obviously, it's each individuals own decision how far they take it. Just be glad you're not the dope who will ride that thin line of being unhealthfully thick for that little bit of fame(without the fortune).

On a side note, everyone here agrees that you're damn smart and have made the absolute right decision for yourself. Look at what my state's governor is doing after bodybuilding and after 40? I know you won't be making financial decisions for the 5th largest economy anytime soon but you've definitely got a long life ahead of you that we can only hope will be as prosperous as the aforementioned. Are you hinting at a motto, "with great power(knowledge) comes great responsibility?" I know, I know. The Spiderman motto is cheesy but it applies here. I don't know if IFBB members have any say in what the directon of the executive council but I think it'd be interesting to see what direction the IFBB goes in.

Does anyone know why the IOC revoked its recognition of the IFBB as a federation (first step in becoming an olympic sport) while recognizing a federation for a sport I haven't even heard of, like the one representing "boules."

Either way, Atwood and Warren are the thickest. I hope the best for them for as long as they can sustain the thickness and whatever they do with themselves between now and thereafter. Change is a constant in the universe. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Phil.

 

[LATS]

thses guys train no different that the lighter guys.. they take no more drugs that the bigger men.. their body responds with a shitload of mass..trust me, dexter and they others are trying to get just as freaky..they just do not have the genetics.. so here is the dilema...do we ask these gentlmen to not push as hard in the gym and to not eat as much so that we may se them "come down" in size? no..ronnie put on the mass because he could.. he wanted to prove something to himself and the ifbb awarded him for it.. that is what the ifbb sees as the pinnacle of bodybuilding..
what is the point of training hard if not to achieve something ?? i hear all the time in the gym.." i do not want to get any bigger".. that is their choice.. but, for a ruhl to say that is half way throwing in the towel.. i do not think that we can ask theses guys to back off.. they would not anyway.. why train so hard and eat like clock work to stay the same size or shrink?? it is like telling nascar to not go so fast because someone could get hurt.. to not push the envelop in any sport is a waste of time for these guys..
to go the route of dexter is the ruin of the organizations...people want freaks and guys like atwood and ruhl ect are the draw..are these guys unhealthy?? who knows..they are carrying alot of weight.. but, you might be surprised at the blood work of the smaller guys too.. give me the freaks any day// guys like dexter are great bodybuilders.. but, they are not gentically gifted as atwood and ruhl to have mass even though they strive for it..do we tell the genetically gifted they should not win when in every sport the gifted are the winners???
back to what phil said.. are they unhealthy?.. look at how many people die running marathons.. how many people die racing.. how many football players have ended their careers early because of numerous injuries.. every sport is unhealthy ..period..when pushed by the elite of the sport the body is being trashed..they do not stop until they have too or they burnout..so who knows.. pretty soon atwood and ruhl will be pushed aside by other freaks and we will see a changing of the guard.. i am willing to bet that they will be fine.. but, no one can predict twenty years from now.. lance armstrong maybe dead from his bike racing.. he pushes his body to the enth degree.. not healthy either..no one knows.. but ask him to stop and he would say no..

 

[T-MUSCLE]

recent pics of branch warren

where are they

 

[edge250]

phil how did you feel at 285, how was your blood work. if you continued that path do you think it would have been destructive to you. i agree with lats, but you've been there. could you elaborate if possible if you dont think it's to personal

 

[PHIL HERNON]

IMO

RONNIE DOESNT LOOK UNHEALTHY TO ME. GUYS TRYING TO LOOK LIKE RONNIE DOES WHEN GENETICALLY THEY CANT AND THEY WILL TAKE ANYTHING TO LOOK LIKE RONNIE END UP LOOKING UNHEALTHY TO ME. WARREN LOOKS UNHEALTHY AND UNCOMFORTABLE. I FELT LIKE I COULDNT BREATHE AT 285. I FELT LIKE I WAS GOING TO DIE. I LOOKED LIKE I WAS GOING TO EXPLODE. IMO, TREVOR SMITH GOT TOO BIG TOO FAST. THIS WONT STOP, MORE WILL DROP DEAD BEFORE WE STOP AND LOOK AT WHAT IT IS DOING TO US. I AM NOT A DOCTOR, BUT SHOW ME ONE THAT TELLS US THAT GAINING 100 POUNDS ABOVE OUR NATURAL WEIGHT TAKING STEROIDS IS GOOD FOR LONGEVITY AND OVERALL HEALTH. WHERE IS THE TOP 10 OLYMPIA LINEUP FROM 10 YEARS AGO? 15? 20?

 

[KillerStack]

Vince Commeford, JJ Marsh, etc.... It happens early in life then what do you do??? These guts are only 40 or so years old. There is a lot of life after 40, so I hear.

What happened to Comerford and Marsh?

 

[Armageddon]

No one is ever going to say enough is enough. Cause just like homeruns, and kickreturns, and crazy dunks, the public wants freaks. If freaks is what they want then freaks is what they'll get. Granted these guys should have enough cents to figure out what healthy is. I agree with Phil, but also if these people aren't smart enough to stop at a certain point then thats there fault. No governing body in the sport is going to stop it cause it's cash out of there pocket. I remember people going crazy when Jean Pierre Fux started showing up alot. Many have just followed. Besides all of this I just don't think these guys look good at all. Hell ya there big but they look like nothing I would ever want to resemble.

 

[bigbadasian]

Reply

|--[\\\\]>--------- who says looking like a muscleheadz cartoon is unhealthy? disstended(sp) abs are very healthy looking! LOL!

 

[Dom!nator]

@ Lats, certainly in all sports there are certain risks involved. But the difference here is that in bodybuilding genetics are being pushed aside by all kinds of chemical experiments.

I am sure some guys that are on stage like lee priest for example dont take it all that far. But there are a lot of bodybuilders that just dont have the quality to make it pro but try everything in their hand to do. I think the health risks here are much bigger compared to other sports.

Dont get me wrong, myself I also like the freaks and im not quite sure what my own opinion is in this matter. But I do know that some people are going to far in using their body as a chemical factory and are losing sight on the long term consequences.

 

[xcelbeyond]

I agree with most of what's said here. As long as freaks are rewarded, everyone will try and be a freak. And not everyone (actually very few) have the ability to do so.

I'm only about 60 pounds above my "natural" weight and I have trouble with endurance/breathing, yet my tests are all normal or good.

Lee Priest (as has been stated) has decided he looks better (and gets judged better) at a lighter weight.

I say whatever your goals are, keep getting tested and use that as your guideline. If you're starting to do damage, back off. This is probably a real good indicator for your real limitations.

xcel

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Re: Re: Observation

What happened to Comerford and Marsh?

Heart transplant and kidneyt ransplant

 

[weight77]

I agree 100% with Phil. In a way, I know what Phil felt like. In 1 1/2 I went up 60lbs. Right before I got hurt I had trouble walking up a flight of stairs. I also had to have my girlfriend put my shoes on for me. It would take me so long I would start sweating like a pig and not to mention the breathing again. I did not feel healthy and low and behold when I had my blood work done I hade 6 times the normal amount of protein in my urin.

Too much too fast will kill you! I can tell you right now ART is on a path to distruction. I know what his offseason cycle consisted of last year and if I typed it all out your eyes would blow out of your head.

 

[doktorspok]

ahhh, sigh of relief

its funny, cause we all want to be big, but some guys will do ANYTHING or take anything to get there. it really is turing into a side show the way some pros are looking, me im just happy where im at. i was reading one of my old training log entries from 1998, i started laughing so hard, i did some crazy ass work out, must of been like 50 sets, and everything was like 3 sets of ten per exercise. and at the end of my entry , i wrote, up to 161 lbs!!

now im 190lbs 6 years later, not a big jump in weight but i can say its probaly all muscle gain. im only 5'6, so on me 190 looks much bigger, my goal weight is 200lbs, full and hard and single digit BF . and im sure ill get there sometime in the future.

but you can even see this at the local gyms, guys just want to get big so fast, there is a group of college kids that come in my gym and like 2 months ago, they look like average college kids with a little muscle. now a few of these guys are so PUFFY, and bloated, face is all rounded out and they have no neck. and lots of guys i know take all types of things without knowing what it does or is supposed to do, really scary.

DOK

 

[BigBoyJ]

In my opinion bloodwork is really a small concern in the whole scheme of the mass monsters. Sure, the bloodwork can come back perfect, not a hint of a problem. The concern however should be the effects on the heart. Remember that for every pound of muscle built the heart also has to build new veins and capillaries to supply blood to those muscle. The blood volume in the body also has to be increased. Pound for pound, excess muscularity is much harder on the heart than fat. Fat is an inactive tissue that requires VERY little blood flow or nutrition, but that's not the case with muscle. As far as cardiac output goes, the heart must work much harder to supply blood to the body of a 300 lb bodybuilder than it does to a 300 lb obese person. I'm not saying being obese is healthier than being 300 lbs lean because there are so many other complications related to obesity. As far as from a purely cardiological standpoint though, muscle is harder on the body than fat in equal amounts. In other words, I think the mass freaks are pretty much heart attacks waiting to happen.

 

[brachialis]

I'd have to disagree that Dexter is going to the extremes that Ruhl, Art, or even Coleman are.... Of course he's using and he's going nuts, but there's just no way he's using to the extremes of the freak shows.

Mattarazzo admitted to using about 70X the amount that the old timers Columbo, Schwarzeneger used. And now it's NOT just anabolics....it's Insulin, GH, Synthol and the list is as long as the yellow pages. Nasser was using around 1500X the normal amount of GH that the human body should have. Dorian would remove a pint of blood each night before going to bed mix with astonishing doses of GH and wake up to an infusion every morning blood doping with a twist of GH. Lil' Lee Priest in the offseason can't sleep on his stomach he must sleep on his back or he'll stop breathing due to sleep apnia because of the excess weight.

The issue is we live in a time of "Extremes" in every walk of life. Who would have ever thought someone could do a back flip on a motorcycle at 75 feet in the air come down and land it? Who would have thought a Defensive Lineman at 300+ lbs. could run a 4.75 second 40 yard dash? Who would have thought that someone could go through 50-60 surgeries to get the perfect body to look like a Barbie? We live it... I agree we love freaks! I love them just like the next guy! They're the comic book heroes...

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything! Thanks for standing for something Phil!

 

[TRAPS21]

Great quote to end the post Brach!!!

But is it true that Priest has swornoff getting TOO big in the offseason, as compared to the past? I have heard that he even realizes that he was way too big in the offseason and is trying to keep it more under control.

 

[brachialis]

TRAPS21

...thanks

No I've heard Priest is indeed tapering it off more in the offseason. This is back when he pushed 280+ in the offseason...

I'm sure the's guys want to be remembered, but not for "dying"!!

 

[RicPhoenix]

This type of topic comes up regularly on the various forum and always gets a huge response.

Lats made very good points in that many times we get health and sport confused. NO sport is healthy nor is it about health. All sport is about COMPETITION and that means pushing the boundaries of human performance.

I have had people criticise my choice of sport/hobby and say it is full of steroids and it is unhealthy.....

Yet a gal here was just rewarded with several TV commercials due to her performance as an acrobatic ski jumper in the olympics....in the commercial she says:

I have broken my collar bone twice, my leg once, my arm twice sprain my neck and had a concussion...but I keep my teeth strong using UltraToothpaste....

Now...hang on...this person is jumping off cliffs and breaking all those bones...and she is a hero?

Discussion OVER.


For some reason...morality has been attached to the use of MALE hormones there is no uproar over estrogen use...LOL