Off TRT: 10 months later and PCT but still low T, help me figure out my next step

[pickapeck]

If you have been on for years, then you may take years to return to normal. I would advise seeing an endo. You are young and should pursue a path that does not involve hormones of any kind.

I am off everything and it took about 2 years to feel normal again - it was worth it.

Took me over a year to reccover twice in my lifetime. Went off for 3 years and then ten years. The further I got away from use the less I wanted to use and eventually saw use as greesy kids stuff. Then in my late 40s I decided to act like a kid again. Just a note, every time you manipulate with a steroid or a PCT drug or PCT drug combination there is a lull before the system reestablishes itself. since you are getting into the 500-600s range with a mild dose of SARM suggests that you can recover in time. Just my 2 cents based on what happened to me and what I have seen. Back in my day people mostly cycled on and off which probably helped us recover in the long run when life took us elsewhere.

 

[pickapeck]

In my early-mid 20s I stopped all gear, pct supps, etc for 2 years. NEVER recovered to previous levels. Although I had two kids in that time. Thankfully I had access to Viagra from a TJ pharmacy or else I never would have been able to perform. A very depressing time. kinda blessing in disguise as I spent most my time studying unix system administration. Instead of chasing skirts.
Got back on gear, in my later 20s, but this time, with IT cash in my pocket and with access to online sources I started using tren. OMG!! Needless to say I was off to the races..

In your early to mid 20s did you blast and cruise, stay on or cycle on and off?

 

[goback2013]

In your early to mid 20s did you blast and cruise, stay on or cycle on and off?

Back then, late 90s, you 'cycled'.
You bought a couple bottles of brovel test and ran it for like 10weeks.
Then waited for the local dealer to restock.
And ran another cycle 4-6 months later.

 

[FuriousAngus]

Cool.

Dont touch any drugs, food supplements (test booster) and also get fertility test done.

Results came back.

FSH= 1.34 mlU/ml
LH= 1.94 mlU/ml


Looks like secondary hypogonadism, am I correct? Where to go from here?

 

[pickapeck]

Back then, late 90s, you 'cycled'.
You bought a couple bottles of brovel test and ran it for like 10weeks.
Then waited for the local dealer to restock.
And ran another cycle 4-6 months later.

Then that is another good point in your favor. The only negative is starting in your early 20s before your HPTA was fully imprinted, which is complete in the mid 20s, but at least you were in your 20s.

 

[Swifto]

Results came back.

FSH= 1.34 mlU/ml
LH= 1.94 mlU/ml


Looks like secondary hypogonadism, am I correct? Where to go from here?

Yes, correct.

Your testes seem to be working as they produce TT when SERMs raise your LH and FSH synthetically.

If you're set on using something, then I'd go with Tamoxifen at 20mg/ED for 6 weeks (40mg/ED week 1), then after 6 weeks 10mg/ED for 2 weeks, then 10mg/EOD for 1 week (taper off), but you might get a boost again like before, then decline and your TT settles down again putting you at 200-300 like before.

You dont need HCG or HMG.

You could go with food supplements (herbs) to help, but again you might get that fake boost and then return to baseline again.

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Something with Fadogia Agrestis (high ratio extract), same with Tongkat Ali, KSM-66, Tesnor (not completely convinced).

Honestly, I'd just wait now and give your body time, retest in 4 weeks, then again in 4 weeks and see if it starts to raise slowly.

 

[marssel]

You could run 500-1000 iu of HCG for a few months along with some clomid but at 35 with past steroid use you are gonna have low T or lower than what makes you feel “normal” forever. Just get back on TRT you. An try the first but even if you get to normal for almost 40 you’re not gonna like how that feels either. I got my test to 400s after like a decade on, yes I knew there’d be issues, took 4 years to get test up to 100 and I accept I’m on shit for life. Might as well but if you need to try daily HCG is gonna be a must.

 

[marssel]

Then that is another good point in your favor. The only negative is starting in your early 20s before your HPTA was fully imprinted, which is complete in the mid 20s, but at least you were in your 20s.

I started at 23 and have outlasted EVERYONE who I competed with in the early 2000s. Most of them got on in high school. I think if you make it to 21 you’re in pretty good shape. I did take Anotestin and Nortestin with Cell Tech as a young Marine 19-20 but I think androstenedione does nothing to or for young people.

 

[Swifto]

You could run 500-1000 iu of HCG for a few months along with some clomid but at 35 with past steroid use you are gonna have low T or lower than what makes you feel “normal” forever. Just get back on TRT you. An try the first but even if you get to normal for almost 40 you’re not gonna like how that feels either. I got my test to 400s after like a decade on, yes I knew there’d be issues, took 4 years to get test up to 100 and I accept I’m on shit for life. Might as well but if you need to try daily HCG is gonna be a must.

Why does he need HCG if his testes are active and producing testosterone?

 

[goback2013]

Then that is another good point in your favor. The only negative is starting in your early 20s before your HPTA was fully imprinted, which is complete in the mid 20s, but at least you were in your 20s.

Shit went downhill on my last cycle of that time when I included deca. Never recovered.
Been on ever since. With breaks in-between.

 

[marssel]

Why does he need HCG if his testes are active and producing testosterone?

Functional yes they aren’t dead mine were too but my test was still low and that’s what got me back up to low normal from an actual 0, worked for me it’s cheap helps with libido why not.

 

[Swifto]

Functional yes they aren’t dead mine were too but my test was still low and that’s what got me back up to low normal from an actual 0, worked for me it’s cheap helps with libido why not.

Your testes may have been not firing correctly (testicular dysfunction) and not producing endogenous testosterone, so HCG helped you. Your LH and FSH might have been in range, but your testes were the issue which you addressed directly with HCG.

He's the opposite. His LH and FSH are low and his testes are good IMO.

 

[Doitagain]

If your E2 is actually elevated and that is actually exerting an excessive negative feedback loop on gonadotropins secretion (and you still don't want to get back on TRT) you may consider a VERY low dose of Letrozole (2,5mg a week, yes, just one tablet). There's a legit study that showed it worked incredibly well in hypogonadal overweight men without sides to write home about (and overweight men tend to have just higher aromatization rate/blood E2).

 

[Swifto]

If your E2 is actually elevated and that is actually exerting an excessive negative feedback loop on gonadotropins secretion (and you still don't want to get back on TRT) you may consider a VERY low dose of Letrozole (2,5mg a week, yes, just one tablet). There's a legit study that showed it worked incredibly well in hypogonadal overweight men without sides to write home about (and overweight men tend to have just higher aromatization rate/blood E2).

OBESE men.

 

[Doitagain]

OBESE men.

I stand corrected.
Same rationale applies, I guess.

 

[ThinkTank]

Hey cool. How long was you on everything and how old are you?

Started cycling in my mid 20's. Blast and cruise began in my 40's and ended just before 50. I am not on anything, different life goals and outlook. My focus is now on internal health markers and I've replaced my gym addiction with golf.

 

[Hammer4]

Results came back.

FSH= 1.34 mlU/ml
LH= 1.94 mlU/ml


Looks like secondary hypogonadism, am I correct? Where to go from here?

You're on the low side but in range. I would just give it time bro!!!

 

[bananas007]

Hey. I have researched this a lot. I could not come up with any solid answers to your questions. It does state that after stopping AAS use it can take 2 years for the HPTA axis to reset (in medical websites with high authority).

I think trying to reset your hpta with SERMS is like trying to start a car with a weak battery. you know you do a few ignition key turns and it makes a noise but you have to try it a few more times until it turns on and then it can run on its own. This is just my gut feeling and not a true medical fact lol. if this is true than you may have to do few more clomid restarts with a taper before you completely stop clomid. unfortunatley this is all educated guesses since no one has studied this in detail and ran actual studies.

Do you mind if i PM you. I have been trying to figure this out myslef for a few years too and want to ask if you have A few symptoms...

 

[bananas007]

Started cycling in my mid 20's. Blast and cruise began in my 40's and ended just before 50. I am not on anything, different life goals and outlook. My focus is now on internal health markers and I've replaced my gym addiction with golf.

good job and proud of you. we all just need a dopamine boost. thats what the gym gives us. you are getting it from golf.

 

[FuriousAngus]

You're on the low side but in range. I would just give it time bro!!!

Yes brother that's what I'm thinking!

Hey. I have researched this a lot. I could not come up with any solid answers to your questions. It does state that after stopping AAS use it can take 2 years for the HPTA axis to reset (in medical websites with high authority).

I think trying to reset your hpta with SERMS is like trying to start a car with a weak battery. you know you do a few ignition key turns and it makes a noise but you have to try it a few more times until it turns on and then it can run on its own. This is just my gut feeling and not a true medical fact lol. if this is true than you may have to do few more clomid restarts with a taper before you completely stop clomid. unfortunatley this is all educated guesses since no one has studied this in detail and ran actual studies.

Do you mind if i PM you. I have been trying to figure this out myslef for a few years too and want to ask if you have A few symptoms...

Sure man, hit me up.

Yes, correct.

Your testes seem to be working as they produce TT when SERMs raise your LH and FSH synthetically.

If you're set on using something, then I'd go with Tamoxifen at 20mg/ED for 6 weeks (40mg/ED week 1), then after 6 weeks 10mg/ED for 2 weeks, then 10mg/EOD for 1 week (taper off), but you might get a boost again like before, then decline and your TT settles down again putting you at 200-300 like before.

You dont need HCG or HMG.

You could go with food supplements (herbs) to help, but again you might get that fake boost and then return to baseline again.

Testosterone 21®

A muscle-building breakthrough that works to create the perfect anabolic environment for gains in lean muscle mass and strength, with Cyclosome™ delivery.

hitechpharma.com

Alpha T

Alpha T Our Tongkat Ali and Fadogia product is now available! We have taken the highest strength Tongkat Ali and the highest strength Fadogia that is available on the market, and combined it together to produce Alpha T. Tongkat Ali and Fadogia have been shown to vastly increase natural test...

tb-jp.com

Men's Health

Promote male hormone balance, support male fertility, improve sexual health, support prostate health, help hair health and more. Men's Health is our all-in-one male health supplement to support men of all ages.

revivesups.com

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This powerful formula contains 8 key ingredients that, together, support natural testosterone production*, support metabolism*, promote male sexual health*, and facilitate the building of lean muscle tissue*. RAW Test is made with powerful ingredients like ByroViron®, KSM-66®, Muira Puama, and...

getrawnutrition.com

Something with Fadogia Agrestis (high ratio extract), same with Tongkat Ali, KSM-66, Tesnor (not completely convinced).

Honestly, I'd just wait now and give your body time, retest in 4 weeks, then again in 4 weeks and see if it starts to raise slowly.

I really appreciate your input, brother. I'm leaning towards giving it more time. I'll retest in 3 weeks and then again 4 weeks after. Hoping for the best!