MVOk I will respond........
First bro, I never agreed or disagreed with the dosages. That was never my point at all. I told the man to stick with test and EQ for a cycle. If I remember he was asking if 500mgs if test and 300mgs of EQ per week are good for a cycle. With the 25mgs per day for d-bol that comes to 975mg per week. Not even 1g, so re-check the math bro. As far as these dosages go itcis of my opinon that these dosages are fine. Why do I think they are fine, here is my reason. Taking the minimal amount to grow is something I have always advocated. Read any of my posts and you will see this, HOWEVER minimal amount for me with test starts at 500mgs. The benefits you get with 250-300mgs per week of test versus combines with 300mgs of anabolics in my opinon is not the way to go. Your ratio of anabolic to androgenic compounds should always favor androgenic compounds.At 250mgs all you are basically going to do is shut down your HPTA and yes you may gain 5-10 pounds but at the expense of what?? Shuting down your HPTA. You are going to shut it down over an extended peroid of time using 500mgs as well so why not give yourself noticeable gains using 500mgs instead of 300 or 250 or whatever. 500mgs of test, 300mgs of EQ and 25mgs per day of d-bol is fine. PEROID. It isn't over the top, it isn't too little. It is a nice basic stack. End of that story.
No first off it is your opinion and if you read the thread most disagreed with his cycle plans of dball and EQ added. I know 3 experienced juicers that are having problems with dball right now on 30 mgs a day. By problems I mean side effects associated with the usuage-short term. ADDED Dball would be waaay too much for him
Second,
I don't agree with you always bashing kitted tren. I have disagreed with you many times over this. I respect your opinon but honestly bro I feel you are of the mentality that since you have been on these boards for quite a bit of time that anybody who disagrees with doesn't really know what they are talking about. Now you say you have worked in the pharmacutical industry and from your posts you seem to have quiter a bit of knowlegde but I personally feel your views on kitted tren are a bit skewed and I have stated this on several occasions. Yes techincal information is great. It is the basis of understanding but relating what you read in a study to actually being truth isn't always easy in the medical field or in our community. Yes you have data that back up why kitted tren is bad and you consider it the worst compound available, however real world experience that I have and many bodybuilder allover the USA , both on these boards and not, that have used kitted tren for years and are still walking around fine and breathing fine are a contradiction to the very studies you prove. Hell if I was going to go purely on studies I would never use anadrol at all. Or halotestin. Two of the most liver toxic compunds you can use, but people do and people use them for extended peroids of time without complications. Why? because you and I both know full well that people react differently to each compound. I might not be able to use 10mgs of D-bol without getting jaundice while you can take 150mgs and your liver values aren't raised one bit. Medical studies would tell you 150mg of d-bol per day is suicide but people do it , have done it, and will continue to do, wether you or I or and study may say differently. Sometimes real world experience counts alot more than what some medical jourmal writes when half of the time they aren't even full understanding what they write about.
Studies? Where are you going to find studies of trenbelone acetate on humans?
What journals? You never responded over at MM?
What studies what I posted came from 7 years of experience of reading thousands of posts on the web and being at the forefront of kitted tren in it's infancy. Understand the chemistry of the solvents and the composition of the pellets and it will fall together.
My post:
This is a repost of an older post I wrote years ago. I posted it here awhile ago and it caused quite a stir as it usually does but here we go again...
Since the tren thread got a lot of responses on another board I thought I would post this compilation of...eerrr.... many things based upon personal experience and get feedback from others in a new thread since tren seems to be the most misunderstood mythical magical liquid death or whatever AAS out there.
This thread is not encouraging you to use tren or any other AAS for that matter and the opinions are just that opinions not fact for the most part. So before the flames fly my experience entails years of experience reading learning and using tren on my cows in just about every way possible. Experimenting with doses and such.
Now my cows are not tren monsters but they have have done a fair share of cycles from "kitted" tren made from pellets, tren made from powder and UG Tren.
SO YOU AND OTHERS READING THIS THREAD CAN BENEFIT AND CONTRIBUTE TO THIS POST PLEASE ADD WHAT I MAY HAVE LEFT OUT.
Original Trenbelone Acetate was marketed as Finaject and was 30mg/ml. It was taken off the market in 1987, Parabolan the long acting human version of Trenbelone was trashed in 1996. PARABOLIN is now available from several UG labs.
there are human studies done of course with Parabolan and most of the ones noted were on the psychological effects caused even by the long ester.
TA is a veterinary drug and no human studies are available.
Trenbelone is the most used and abused AAS in the US today.
Why? because the availability of pellets and these "kits".
Every kid and his brother not conected with regular AAS supplies or sources have access to this "wonder drug"and will eat it, snort it, rub it, and shoot it.
The kits produce a clean but yet dirty product for the body. Clean as it may be bacteria free but contain clean contaminants or irritants.
Examples:
A. Way too much solvent is used for the body to appropriately handle safely. Most kits are a combo of BA and BB and require 10 mls for 4 grams. There is no magic solution-solvents are solvents and cause discomfort-some more than others. Solvents are about the only thing AAS are soluable in besides oil-which we know has minimal toxicity.
Now here is the part most will disagree with.
These kits produce about 50-70% of the dose they say they do.
Most kits would test out at 35-60 mg per ml if that. I was going to get my vet to make some and test it through San Raf, but there was/is not much support nor do I care to use these anyway anymore.
And plus people would scream BIAS if I was involved in anyway because the magic solvents have been exposed a while ago.
Why less than dose per ml than advertised or promised?
Because 10 mls solvent is not enough to extract 4 grams of hormone from the pressed cellulose acetate in the pellets to which the tren is bound to.
An informal study was done years ago looking at the various solvents used to extract tren from pellets and their yield.
Each experiment was performed twice and using 2 grams pellets in 100 mls solvent coffee filtered and allowed to evap with the tren powder recovered and weighed.
Results:
1. Ether-yielded 1.86 grams
2. Methanol yielded 1.74 Grams
3 Acetone yielded 1.64 grams
BA BB was not done because of the very high evaporation points.
So someone explain to me how 10 mls of solvent will yield 100% extraction and no cellulose will be in the end product?
Kits produce a very allergic, toxic product in their own even though sterile filtered and baked.
Three toxic products from the kit that make it through the filter are the solvent, the partially dissolved Cellulose acetate, the oil and the trenbelone mix itself.
These toxic products in the tren produce unflattering reactions in the body itself amplifying the already irritating effect of the trenbelone itself.
My cows have used a lot of kits and even made my own with BA/BB and some of the most "memorable" effects were:
1. The "Rush and Flush"-this is the allergic, almost anaphylatic reaction you get after injecting tren from a kit.
Some of the excess solvent in the depot gets absorbed very quickly as does some of the tren. This leads to-in some-coughing fits, red face, increased blood pressure, increased body heat, headaches and fatigue or lethargy after you recover.
Depending upon solvent levels you will have pain and swelling at the injection site.
*I will note that to reduce these sides I have administered to my cows 200 mg of ibuprofen and at least 100mg of Aspirin to fight the "inflammatory effects" mentioned above. Taken 30 minutes before a pop and the sides were less noticeable.
2. Fatigue and Lethargy, High BP, Sweating, Insomnia, Moodiness, headaches, reduced appetite, missed training sessions...basically the "Tren Flu" are all part of the tren hangover as I call it. The body is fighting a lot of the impurities as a mild infection...and the sides of the drug itself can be potentiated by all these factors listed above.
*Some of these effects can be eliminated by using tren powder and a minimum amount of solvent-.75-1.0 ml per gram.
Tren and cancer tren and pneumonia-as in scar tissue in the lungs, tren and kidney failure, tren and sterilizing effects, etc...
None of these have been proven, but certainly possible in the vast array of doses and tren products and methods used to make tren. Each individuals experiences will vary as the increase in the amount of the Gene Pool-(more users experimenting with tren).
I could elaborate more but I too am unsure of the long term effects of tren-especially from "kitted tren".
Negative Side Effects of Tren:
High BP
Progesterone induced Gyno-for some
Headaches
Fatigue
Lethargy
Loss of Appetite
Moodiness
Aggression
Depression
Anxiety
Insomnia
Night and Day Sweats
Increased body temp, metabloism
Tren dick
Reduced sex drive
hair loss
Posititve Side Effects of Tren:
Increased strength gains
Increased muscle mass
Decreased Catabolism
Increased fat metabolism
Reduced water retention
Aggression-the good kind
Literally a poor man's GH with more toxic sides
After reading this list, you would be hell bent on using tren but there are ways I have found to minimize the sides and potentiate the gains and still use tren in a safer manner on my cows for a higher slaughter weight.
1. Only use tren a couple of times per year with test and 1-2
other anabolics.
2. Use low doses-35-70 mg a day ED dosing.
3. Cycle for short periods 6 weeks
4. Take the necessary ancillaries
A. Liver protection-Tyler's, milk thistle, ALA, Liv-52, Picro-Liv etc
B. Cranberry juice
C. Extra vitamins and minerals especially electrolytes and
anti-oxidants Vit C Vit E etc.
D. Double your water intake
E. Use prescribed BP meds when necessary-don't self medicate.
F. Use tren made from powder when ever necessary or available
G. Don't kit your tren from pellets-use it as a last resort
HOPE THIS theread was educational and will elicit some good feedback and more information."
I didn't even bother to post the selective recrystallization method to get powder for pellets. As that is a different story and kitchen chemistry experiment.
Now as far as EQ or deca goes, you say its not a bulking drug??? That is your opinon and thats fine but in reality how can you say its not a bulking compound when people have used it in bulking cycles for years.
THAT's where this ends as it is my opinion. No need to comment further on my part...now you are trying to convince me through a long post.
Key word I said is potentiate. Deca by itself will yield more mass gains than Eq and both will shut you down to level of a castrated rat more or less.
I woukld like to know the properties it contains that make it unsuitable for bulking. In what book or study doe sit say or show characterisitcs that would make it unsuitable?? I would just like to know. Instead on stright out saying it isnot a bulking agent, please say why??? It gives water retention the same as deca. It promotes positive nitrogen balance the same as deca. It may in some cases lead to more water retnetion than deca from the fact it creates excess red blood cells much the same as EPO does. So in reality anything that promotes water retention is really a good bulking agent because after all 50% or higher of gains you make when you bulk are due to water.
Now the key word is " Is it as good a bulking agent as deca?" Maybe not. Depends on whom you talk to. Some people will say yes, some will say no. Mg for mg I would have to agree that deca is a more powerful anabolic than EQ, but EQis still a bulking agent. Hell you can bulk on primo. As we all know every steroid be it deca, or EQ, or anadrol or whatever when broken down are all simple variations of testosterone. yes deca breaks down into dihydronandralone and whatnot but at the very core they are all just basic forms of testosterone, but with a carbon atom changes at the 17th postion or the 19th position or an extra carbon molecule here or there depending on which compound your talking about. That is what I was getting at. That just to say EQ isn't a bulker is flat out wrong because it is. That would be like saying you can't bulk on test prop becuase it should only be used for cutting cycles. C'mon we all know better than that.
Yu asked what I would rather take for dieting? First the topic wasn't about dieting but I can diet on deca and still be in winning condition, so where's your point?
You still don't get the point my opinion was DECA would hold more mass more water EQ being the cleaner of the two..less conversion to progesterone with the EQ etc.......
I have never disagreed with most of your posts. I don't like the fact you always bash Mex gear and UG gear whenever you get a chance because you are convinced they are dirty. Many people use mex or UG gear every day without problems. have mex gear and UG gear have problems in the past. But you seem to confuse the problems brovel had a few years back with every mex gear that comes out. Does mexico have less strict regulations than th USA, sure they do but so does pakistan, turkey and all the other middle eastern countries that people buy gear from but nobody ever mentions them. Why is that???? Yes mex gear may be underfilled or even underdosed at times but for the price against euro or legit US gear it is a better deal. It may have more BA in it but there is ways around that and really nobody cares but you it seems. but are they the scum of anabolics, no. You see unlike you most of us cannot get pure straight from the USA pharmacy anabolics nor do alot of us like to risk US customs so mex gear and UG gear is our only alternative.
I don't bash it I just point out the sides of it and recommend everyone clean up their gear with sterile filters and etc.
MEX and UG lab products are "dirty" when compared to Pharm Grade stuff PERIOD end of story.
Will they kill you? NO will they make you sick? Maybe..Clean sick..Solvent fever ? Me sayng this won't change anything-it's just the avenue we are forced to take right now.
I have seen pics of filters from these "labs" that make Mex and UG AAS from China Powders and they are jet black. USP grade my ass..Pure but not that pure.
I am not going to go into the schematics of the industry.
I rely on knowledge and experience as well as my education and profession.
You say I am running down this board. Well that is your opinon but I don't choose to share my advice over on getbig2.com becuase over there you if you don't fit in to the clique or agree with what any of the mods say or believe than wham your made a fool and you get banned.
You are missing the point again, you choose not to argue with me. I don't ban or flame anyone for disagreeing with me. I'd enjoy an educated discussion like this over there its dull.
So I would say you need to worry more about your " gossip " board and worry it isn't becoming a getbig 2 than me " running down " sites. People all over the net know me and my posts. I have never claimed to be a guru or expert or whatever you want to call it. Do I know about steroids and how to apply them....yes. That is proven. Do I go around pressing my beliefs on other people to become some internet message board god? No. I do not. If I can help one person make the right decison and help him achieve what he set out to do then i consider ti a success. I do not care if I am liked or apart of a group on the boards. I come here to share and learn from guys the same as anybody else, including you. As I have said many times you have good info. I just think like a few past members on mayhem you rely too much on medical studies and don't incorperate enough experience into your posts. Just my opinon.
I am the last one that relys on anything medical other than meticulous blood work. I turn my nose at those posts that show ester weights and blood concentrations of hormones etc. I hate that shit.
Real world experience counts and as with everything Mavericks genes and MG's genes are different.
I believe in radical stuff for me, I don't believe in anti-E's and extensive PCT at high doses. but that's me. How does anyone know if they are prone to gyno if they take anti-E's from day one.
They don't.
I respect you and what you are trying to convene and your knowledge and experience so don't feel you can't post on MM or present a different opinon than me.
It's too bad we could n't hold this over there it is a good thread.
Take care,
MG
.gif "IP Gear")
