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Orals Toxicity seems overrated

Love_to_Bodybuild

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How old are you,?

I've been cycling orals since I was 23 and I'm 40 now. From 2004 to 2014 I did 10 solo over the counter hormone cycles m h o n superdrol and some other over the counter on the market at the time was fine then I started using AAS or trt injectables and with orals and liver enzymes over time the cumulative of effect add up so you know your first 10 cycles you might be fine and then you know over time the effects at a NAC milk thistle tudca I'll bring mine down

As an older guy i, forty, in this sport I would say don't use everyday or high dosing , maybe moderate dosing if you're getting ready for a prep, just throw them in sparingly here or there

Many older guys discontinue them completely
 

BigNJ

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How old are you,?

I've been cycling orals since I was 23 and I'm 40 now. From 2004 to 2014 I did 10 solo over the counter hormone cycles m h o n superdrol and some other over the counter on the market at the time was fine then I started using AAS or trt injectables and with orals and liver enzymes over time the cumulative of effect add up so you know your first 10 cycles you might be fine and then you know over time the effects at a NAC milk thistle tudca I'll bring mine down

As an older guy i, forty, in this sport I would say don't use everyday or high dosing , maybe moderate dosing if you're getting ready for a prep, just throw them in sparingly here or there

Many older guys discontinue them completely
I'm not advocating using high dose orals none stop. All I'm saying is as far as liver toxicity, most orals seem to be well tolerated.

The point of this post is about liver toxicity and oral AAS. I believe Mike Arnold had an article about this subject as well.

It's up to the individual to do what they want obviously. I'm not sure why some people are getting upset over this.
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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I'm not advocating using high dose orals none stop. All I'm saying is as far as liver toxicity, most orals seem to be well tolerated.

The point of this post is about liver toxicity and oral AAS. I believe Mike Arnold had an article about this subject as well.

It's up to the individual to do what they want obviously. I'm not sure why some people are getting upset over this.
Not upset at all, man, stating I've seen my liver enzymes raise and fall then rise higher , ,fall, rise, fall, rise and fall. I think highest ast and alt have been is around 85

All I'm saying is cumulative effect adds up the more orals you put into your body year after year

I'm sure guys that liver enzymes went higher and higher then before , let's say five years ago, and use less orals but enzymes get at them highest

do I still use orals? Maybe once or twice a week and low dosed here and there. Maybe none at all for a while. Or sometimes maybe four or five days a week, depends on the cycle or whether I'm off cycle

Of course superdrol alot more toxic per mg than dbol

Maybe some older cats can chime in
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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I think people mistake the feeling of "toxicity" vs actual toxicity in some circumstances

There was another study on anavar being used up to 4 years on WOMEN and CHILDREN with no adverse side effects

Comes down to responsible dosing too and we have to consider the faact we may be stacking other things vs running just one compound
 

Kaladryn

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There are also lots of studies on high doses of Anadrol showing it is relatively safe. I believe that starting therapeutic dose for anemia is something like 50mg per 50lbs of body weight.

The problem with these studies is it is hard to detect some kinds of liver damage. Hepatic adenomas would be my main concern and they don't typically show up on bloodwork. They can burst and cause serious internal bleeding and they can become cancerous over time, especially if they go undetected, which often happens. They are more common in bodybuilders than people realize and probably usually from orals.
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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There are also lots of studies on high doses of Anadrol showing it is relatively safe. I believe that starting therapeutic dose for anemia is something like 50mg per 50lbs of body weight.

The problem with these studies is it is hard to detect some kinds of liver damage. Hepatic adenomas would be my main concern and they don't typically show up on bloodwork. They can burst and cause serious internal bleeding and they can become cancerous over time, especially if they go undetected, which often happens. They are more common in bodybuilders than people realize and probably usually from orals.
Very true. Bloodwork only shows one piece of the puzzle
 

SouthernMuscle

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Not upset at all, man, stating I've seen my liver enzymes raise and fall then rise higher , ,fall, rise, fall, rise and fall. I think highest ast and alt have been is around 85

All I'm saying is cumulative effect adds up the more orals you put into your body year after year

I'm sure guys that liver enzymes went higher and higher then before , let's say five years ago, and use less orals but enzymes get at them highest

do I still use orals? Maybe once or twice a week and low dosed here and there. Maybe none at all for a while. Or sometimes maybe four or five days a week, depends on the cycle or whether I'm off cycle

Of course superdrol alot more toxic per mg than dbol

Maybe some older cats can chime in
I could always be wrong, but pretty sure he didnt mean you
 

SouthernMuscle

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There are also lots of studies on high doses of Anadrol showing it is relatively safe. I believe that starting therapeutic dose for anemia is something like 50mg per 50lbs of body weight.

The problem with these studies is it is hard to detect some kinds of liver damage. Hepatic adenomas would be my main concern and they don't typically show up on bloodwork. They can burst and cause serious internal bleeding and they can become cancerous over time, especially if they go undetected, which often happens. They are more common in bodybuilders than people realize and probably usually from orals.
I thought hep adenomas were related to high levels of estrogen
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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I thought hep adenomas were related to high levels of estrogen
Interesting so I did a quick search

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066105/


"We have reported a case of hepatic adenomatosis associated with hormone replacement therapy (estrogen and progesterone) and hemosiderosis caused by excessive blood transfusion for the treatment of chronic myeloid leukemia. A 34-year-old woman was found to have several hepatic tumors on a routine medical examination. The general condition was good. Laboratory studies showed iron overload. Abdominal computed tomography and selective hepatic angiography showed several hypervascular tumors in the right lobe of the liver (up to 20 mm in diameter). Since hepatocellular carcinoma could not be ruled out, subsegmental hepatectomy was performed. Histopathological examination of the surgical specimen showed hepatic adenomatosis with hemosiderosis. Both hormone replacement therapy and iron overload could be the cause of hepatic adenomatosis."
 

Kaladryn

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I thought hep adenomas were related to high levels of estrogen
Both high levels of testosterone and high levels of estrogen can cause them also, however, I would be much more worried about getting from 17 alkylated orals.
 

Mute

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I honestly don’t mind orals, they just seem to rock my BP.
 

Biggerp73

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The most toxic oral I ever took was Cialis/Viagra

Oral AAS... never felt like it caused much of an issue when used at reasonable dosages.

But a standard dose of Cialis has my throat feeling hollow and metallic for a day
 

FrancisK

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The most toxic oral I ever took was Cialis/Viagra

Oral AAS... never felt like it caused much of an issue when used at reasonable dosages.

But a standard dose of Cialis has my throat feeling hollow and metallic for a day

Interesting I’ve never heard that before, do you know the mechanism of action for that in the cialis? Would be worth digging into and seeing would you would have to do to counteract it, could solve some other issues for you…..perhaps a deficiency or condition. The worst I get from cialis is a stuffy nose.
 

luki7788

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The most toxic oral I ever took was Cialis/Viagra

Oral AAS... never felt like it caused much of an issue when used at reasonable dosages.

But a standard dose of Cialis has my throat feeling hollow and metallic for a day
respectfully, but don't spread such foolishness - neither cialis nor viagra are absolutely toxic
 

b-boy

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The human body is made to deal with harmful environments to a certain degree, although some organs can regenerate and remodel themselves they can still be pushed to far if given enough stress. I would opt for the least amount of stress possible. I never was a heavy oral user, the majority is done pre contest toward the end of the diet leading up to a show, I did like to Kickstart cycles with orals for 3 weeks when I was younger, now I avoid them as much as possible unless preparing for a show.
I was googling random kidney stuff about a week ago (mostly caffeine effect on kidneys) didn't realize kidneys repair and remodel themselves also like your liver. I was always under the impression that your kidneys take damage until they cease to function properly and you go on dialysis. The kidneys actually reproduce cells even when fully grown.

 

KillerStack

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The most toxic oral I ever took was Cialis/Viagra

Oral AAS... never felt like it caused much of an issue when used at reasonable dosages.

But a standard dose of Cialis has my throat feeling hollow and metallic for a day

Viagra causes extreme heart burn for me. I doubt it has to do with any liver toxicity per se though.
 

Biggerp73

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Interesting I’ve never heard that before, do you know the mechanism of action for that in the cialis? Would be worth digging into and seeing would you would have to do to counteract it, could solve some other issues for you…..perhaps a deficiency or condition. The worst I get from cialis is a stuffy nose.
Medications for acid reflux help
Viagra causes extreme heart burn for me. I doubt it has to do with any liver toxicity per se though.
I hesitate to call it heart burn because the sensation of hollow metallic achy-ness doesn't resemble what heart burn not ally is described as but as I mentioned above heart burn medication does seem to help
respectfully, but don't spread such foolishness - neither cialis nor viagra are absolutely toxic
I'm rubber you are glue 😎
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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You guys want to know something more toxic than any oral AAS ever created? More toxic than combining binge drinking w/ mtren ? ....

masculinity

lol
 

Lifting4000

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it's really hard to eat on orals. Point-blank. If i could actually eat on them it would be cool.
 

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