Possible kidney issues, GFR 35

[MikeS]

When I had my first symptoms, it was already too late. Don't let that fool you.

Wow. sorry to hear bro.

 

[muscle96ss]

thanks my friend for the advice, and sharing your story. How did you know you had issues to begin with?
I was reading briefly about dialysis and of course, it scared the shit out of me...makes cancer look like a picnic, no offense to anyone whos suffered cancer.

I had severe LE edema and extreme fatigue that just started overnight one day. I originally thought it was heart related until I got my bloodwork back.

 

[MikeS]

Again, the huge drop from 2018 to 2019 alone says something is going on. Even if it comes backs the exact same as last year, you need to find out why it dropped almost in half over 1 year to prevent it from happening again. It doesn't just drop from 73 to 45 in 1 year; that is not normal by any means and you are kidding yourself and in denial if you think there is a chance everything is just fine.

I did call my Physician, leaving message earlier today to request Nephrologist, among other things. Awaiting his reply.

 

[MikeS]

I had severe LE edema and extreme fatigue that just started overnight one day. I originally thought it was heart related until I got my bloodwork back.

Do you recall your numbers at that point? I repeat, I am not being naive.

 

[muscle96ss]

Do you recall your numbers at that point? I repeat, I am not being naive.

Honestly, I don't remember; there has been so much happening over the past 4 years. I have the paperwork somewhere, but I have 3 stacks of papers about 3 feet high I would have to sift through to find it, lol. I think the GFR was something like 23, had been upper 50's prior I think.

 

[romo]

I did call my Physician, leaving message earlier today to request Nephrologist, among other things. Awaiting his reply.

Hope everything works out sir.

 

[qbkilla]

Again, the huge drop from 2018 to 2019 alone says something is going on. Even if it comes backs the exact same as last year, you need to find out why it dropped almost in half over 1 year to prevent it from happening again. It doesn't just drop from 73 to 45 in 1 year; that is not normal by any means and you are kidding yourself and in denial if you think there is a chance everything is just fine.

Not trying to say it couldn't be serious because he should get it Checked out, but remember this is his eGFR, aka his creatinine. Not his real GFR. This is only an estimate of his GFR based on a one time snapshot blood test. The number could be much different in 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks. Dehydration could have made his number look much worse. Again the number is not good, but this is not his true GFR.

I have said it before ,everyone needs to understand egfr vs GFR.

The blood test, egfr, is nothing more than your creatinine level. They take it put into a formula and spit out a egfr and guys come to the forums and say "my gfr." What they really mean is "my creatinine."

I feel like the fact that they use creatinine to estimate GFR has caused a ton of confusion on bodybuilding boards as I see guys keep saying "my gfr"

 

[muscle96ss]

Not trying to say it couldn't be serious because he should get it Checked out, but remember this is his eGFR, aka his creatinine. Not his real GFR. This is only an estimate of his GFR based on a one time snapshot blood test. The number could be much different in 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks. Dehydration could have made his number look much worse. Again the number is not good, but this is not his true GFR.

I have said it before ,everyone needs to understand egfr vs GFR.

The blood test, egfr, is nothing more than your creatinine level. They take it put into a formula and spit out a egfr and guys come to the forums and say "my gfr." What they really mean is "my creatinine."

I feel like the fact that they use creatinine to estimate GFR has caused a ton of confusion on bodybuilding boards as I see guys keep saying "my gfr"

2 things to consider:

1.) While its only eGFR, you look at the 2018, 2019, and 2020 readings and the last 2 are nowhere near the 2018. So the question is, how likely is it that the last 2 readings were both that inaccurate?
2.) For arguments sake, assume that there is a 90% chance that it is an inaccurate reading somehow and his GFR is much higher and that there is a 10% chance that it is accurate. Do you want to sit around and take things slowly when there is even a slight chance that by the time you get blood work done, see a nephrologist, get the necessary tests done, and figure out whats going; that it is too late and your life is over?

Trust me, if you could actually understand what your life will be like once you cross that point of no-return; you would run to the nephrologist asap. You can't repair/regrow the kidney once the cells are dead.

 

[qbkilla]

2 things to consider:

1.) While its only eGFR, you look at the 2018, 2019, and 2020 readings and the last 2 are nowhere near the 2018. So the question is, how likely is it that the last 2 readings were both that inaccurate?
2.) For arguments sake, assume that there is a 90% chance that it is an inaccurate reading somehow and his GFR is much higher and that there is a 10% chance that it is accurate. Do you want to sit around and take things slowly when there is even a slight chance that by the time you get blood work done, see a nephrologist, get the necessary tests done, and figure out whats going; that it is too late and your life is over?

Trust me, if you could actually understand what your life will be like once you cross that point of no-return; you would run to the nephrologist asap. You can't repair/regrow the kidney once the cells are dead.

I definitely agree with you, nothing to play around with. Kidneys are the only thing really in this lifestyle that scares me. I do know my creatinine has beeb up to I think 1.7, then down to 1.1 years later. My scare was when it was 1.7, I believe I was actually drinking too much water so we did the 24 hour piss test, and got my GFR. GFR was much higher, not great, but not bad, just "meh." but nothing concerning. They they did a scan and there was some stuff wrong hydropenprhosis but it was one of those "your kidneys aren't perfect but nothing too much to worry about." I do know one time it got high again and then the doc told me stop taking all supplements (I didn't quit AAS) and re-test, and it was fine. so creatinine can be all over the place.

But we are in agreement his number is high and its always best to be cautious with kidneys. Just sucks that we have to do a 24 hour piss test just to get our real GFR, I wish a blood test would just give it because creatinine can be deceptive.

 

[muscle96ss]

I definitely agree with you, nothing to play around with. Kidneys are the only thing really in this lifestyle that scares me. I do know my creatinine has beeb up to I think 1.7, then down to 1.1 years later. My scare was when it was 1.7, I believe I was actually drinking too much water so we did the 24 hour piss test, and got my GFR. GFR was much higher, not great, but not bad, just "meh." but nothing concerning. They they did a scan and there was some stuff wrong hydropenprhosis but it was one of those "your kidneys aren't perfect but nothing too much to worry about." I do know one time it got high again and then the doc told me stop taking all supplements (I didn't quit AAS) and re-test, and it was fine. so creatinine can be all over the place.

But we are in agreement his number is high and its always best to be cautious with kidneys. Just sucks that we have to do a 24 hour piss test just to get our real GFR, I wish a blood test would just give it because creatinine can be deceptive.

Cystatin C is a much better test for people with a lot of muscle to get a more accurate GFR.

 

[MikeS]

What is the shortest period of time you have to wait to be retested after you have made all the adjustments with your meds and supplements? Both doctors said 4 weeks. Wondering if I did it sooner if that would have allowed the kidneys time to completely improve function, and therefore result in a satisfactory number?

Appreciate all the help from you Brothers

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

If you all are looking at a more generic brand beyond vitamin shoppe I'd highly recommend Vitacost. I get most of my health supplements there and there house brand (Vitacost) is top notch. Lots of reviews, been around forever, solid every time. Been using their astragalus over a year along with about 12 other vitacost brand products.

1) I do the exact same thing as you. I buy certain things from Jarrow, certain things from Vitacost, certain things from Swanson, certain things from Vitamin Shoppe, certain rare things from puritans pride. I wait for those BOGO free sales and I pounce.

2) On a second note, hey its my personal opinion only but I have NEVER EVER seen a guy who tested over 2.0 creatinine and sub 39 GFR where it was a fluke.....there was always either a chronic or acute kidney problem. I have helped guys reverse get out of those numbers but I have never seen it being "just really dehydrated and tested out at .90 and 95 the next time". I would not take those kinds of numbers lightly at all but hey thats just one guys opinion.

 

[qbkilla]

When it comes to true GFR, is there anyway to increase it, or just hope to keep it where it is at or slow the decline? Reading some of the things posted about astralogus, it appears that kidney function can improve the way heart function can (by lowering BP, resting HR) and of course im sure we have all heard about lungs and liver recovering. Just now sure how kidneys work?

 

[Fluffy_XL]

When it comes to true GFR, is there anyway to increase it, or just hope to keep it where it is at or slow the decline? Reading some of the things posted about astralogus, it appears that kidney function can improve the way heart function can (by lowering BP, resting HR) and of course im sure we have all heard about lungs and liver recovering. Just now sure how kidneys work?

Astralagus probably will increase your GFR a few digits as long as you take it.
But it doesn't "heal" you or improve the situation ...it basically helps your body to do better with the given scenario. Maybe with a tad less stress due to accumulated toxins, albumin, whatever.

Anyways no supplement, drinking volume or whatever will repair your kidneys in any way.

Though there are certain cases of kidney problems which are reversible. For example too much protein in urin can sometimes (!) be fixed if you just take a longer rest from bodybuilding. Eating like a normal person, HRT, don't workout hardcore 5x/week and so on.

Side note: for everybody having kidney issues of any kind and intensity. I can only advise you not to touch orals and especially tren.
I know there are a lot of people saying "well kidney issues due to aas arise because of BP issues" but that's not always true.
With tren you will have issues sooner or later no matter what your BP is ...promised.

 

[Flex500]

What is the shortest period of time you have to wait to be retested after you have made all the adjustments with your meds and supplements? Both doctors said 4 weeks. Wondering if I did it sooner if that would have allowed the kidneys time to completely improve function, and therefore result in a satisfactory number?

Appreciate all the help from you Brothers

Well keep in mind here you are not really waiting for "kidney function to improve". What you are really trying to do (and your docs) is remove any factors that may be giving you a falsely elevated creatinine. It's just basically the standard move anytime something is off; "wait four weeks test again". Bodybuilding. com is full of thread after thread of 15 year olds told they are dying because their creatinine is 1.5 they get off all supplements, stop training, drink water and it's 1.0. By and large for anybody with a "blood work issue" you rest, stop anything you are taking, and retest in four weeks.

Muscle96 point (I think) is that you've had a large drop over a two year period so it's likely not a false positive so don't waste any time and get aggressive. I'd also ask them to do more comprehensive bloods; Primary kidney function indicators such as cystatin c, albumin/creatinine urine ratio test as well secondary indicators like uric acid, etc. These are all very easy things to order and can give you a better picture of your health and kidney function.

The only other thing I'd mention, and to the point above, is did your doctor do a lot of tests like those listed and are they are normal? If they were that could be a reason they are a little relaxed and just want you to retest in 4 weeks.

 

[tokon]

I definitely agree with you, nothing to play around with. Kidneys are the only thing really in this lifestyle that scares me. I do know my creatinine has beeb up to I think 1.7, then down to 1.1 years later. My scare was when it was 1.7, I believe I was actually drinking too much water so we did the 24 hour piss test, and got my GFR. GFR was much higher, not great, but not bad, just "meh." but nothing concerning. They they did a scan and there was some stuff wrong hydropenprhosis but it was one of those "your kidneys aren't perfect but nothing too much to worry about." I do know one time it got high again and then the doc told me stop taking all supplements (I didn't quit AAS) and re-test, and it was fine. so creatinine can be all over the place.

But we are in agreement his number is high and its always best to be cautious with kidneys. Just sucks that we have to do a 24 hour piss test just to get our real GFR, I wish a blood test would just give it because creatinine can be deceptive.

So, in the event of a low egfr, your suggestion is to request a 24hr/cystatin test?

 

[MikeS]

Well keep in mind here you are not really waiting for "kidney function to improve". What you are really trying to do (and your docs) is remove any factors that may be giving you a falsely elevated creatinine. It's just basically the standard move anytime something is off; "wait four weeks test again". Bodybuilding. com is full of thread after thread of 15 year olds told they are dying because their creatinine is 1.5 they get off all supplements, stop training, drink water and it's 1.0. By and large for anybody with a "blood work issue" you rest, stop anything you are taking, and retest in four weeks.

Muscle96 point (I think) is that you've had a large drop over a two year period so it's likely not a false positive so don't waste any time and get aggressive. I'd also ask them to do more comprehensive bloods; Primary kidney function indicators such as cystatin c, albumin/creatinine urine ratio test as well secondary indicators like uric acid, etc. These are all very easy things to order and can give you a better picture of your health and kidney function.

The only other thing I'd mention, and to the point above, is did your doctor do a lot of tests like those listed and are they are normal? If they were that could be a reason they are a little relaxed and just want you to retest in 4 weeks.

I am going to ask how many times he has seen numbers similar to mine rise significantly after removing factors that may have elevated my numbers. I called yesterday, going to call again today as he didn't return my call. Also speaking to another physician, and I'm contacting him today as well. I will be asking about all the more comprehensive tests, and hope to do them after the four weeks as not to waste valuable time.

I am not naive and I am not stupid. I understand the seriousness of this. The one brother who had the kidney disease caused by the immune attack, that is not typical kidney disease. Side effects may be different in that case. And you know of your own experience... Which is a worst-case scenario. Hopefully I don't share the same see , but it's possible. And pardon me if I do have a little hope mixed in with the Doom and Gloom. I'm going to do whatever I can to get better before it reaches a point of no return

 

[Flex500]

I am going to ask how many times he has seen numbers similar to mine rise significantly after removing factors that may have elevated my numbers. I called yesterday, going to call again today as he didn't return my call. Also speaking to another physician, and I'm contacting him today as well. I will be asking about all the more comprehensive tests, and hope to do them after the four weeks as not to waste valuable time.

I am not naive and I am not stupid. I understand the seriousness of this. The one brother who had the kidney disease caused by the immune attack, that is not typical kidney disease. Side effects may be different in that case. And you know of your own experience... Which is a worst-case scenario. Hopefully I don't share the same see , but it's possible. And pardon me if I do have a little hope mixed in with the Doom and Gloom. I'm going to do whatever I can to get better before it reaches a point of no return

All good man I think you ARE handling this with an appropriate tone and urgency. Like I said there are literally hundreds of threads on bbing. com of 15-30 year olds who legit were told they are dying.

My personal story (you can search threads I've made on kidney stuff) was a doctor sending me to the ER and they had me seeing a counselor to deal with end stage renal disease when I was 20. They told me I had maybe a year without a transplant due to one bad creatinine reading. I'm now 37 and my egfr is over 120 using cystatin c and creatinine. All other bloods are picture perfect. It caused me to spend over $50,000 of cash out of pocket seeing specialist after specialist the last 17 years. At one point I flew to Sacramento from Ohio to see a nephrologist. I didn't believe him when he told me I was fine so I went to a specialist in NYC. I continued this trend. Roughly counting I've seen ~20 different nephrologists. Part of me still thinks I'm dying of ESRD. So...I'm the other side of the spectrum where things are fine and it cost me my family (lost first fiance over this issue and the stressed it caused), all my savings, time, effort, etc. to prove I have CKD..when I don't.

I finally saw a good shrink and have a great nephrologist (I pay all out of pocket since I have no kidney issue). I, of course, am the far other end of the spectum and it's related to severe health anxiety disorder and OCD combined with a few doctors who were f*cking quacks feeding into those fears. I also worked with nephrologists so that made me extra paranoid (I work in orthopedics now).

 

[MikeS]

All good man I think you ARE handling this with an appropriate tone and urgency. Like I said there are literally hundreds of threads on bbing. com of 15-30 year olds who legit were told they are dying.

My personal story (you can search threads I've made on kidney stuff) was a doctor sending me to the ER and they had me seeing a counselor to deal with end stage renal disease when I was 20. They told me I had maybe a year without a transplant due to one bad creatinine reading. I'm now 37 and my egfr is over 120 using cystatin c and creatinine. All other bloods are picture perfect. It caused me to spend over $50,000 of cash out of pocket seeing specialist after specialist the last 17 years. At one point I flew to Sacramento from Ohio to see a nephrologist. I didn't believe him when he told me I was fine so I went to a specialist in NYC. I continued this trend. Roughly counting I've seen ~20 different nephrologists. Part of me still thinks I'm dying of ESRD. So...I'm the other side of the spectrum where things are fine and it cost me my family (lost first fiance over this issue and the stressed it caused), all my savings, time, effort, etc. to prove I have CKD..when I don't.

I finally saw a good shrink and have a great nephrologist (I pay all out of pocket since I have no kidney issue). I, of course, am the far other end of the spectum and it's related to severe health anxiety disorder and OCD combined with a few doctors who were f*cking quacks feeding into those fears. I also worked with nephrologists so that made me extra paranoid (I work in orthopedics now).

Wow Flex thank you for sharing your story! A ton of stress in turmoil bit at least it turned out a positive! Happy to hear things worked out for you.

And on the other hand there is the story of
Muscle96. Definitely a horrible situation and I feel for you bro. Anywhere I

 

[Flex500]

Wow Flex thank you for sharing your story! A ton of stress in turmoil bit at least it turned out a positive! Happy to hear things worked out for you.

And on the other hand there is the story of
Muscle96. Definitely a horrible situation and I feel for you bro. Anywhere I

Thanks and exactly! We all have to find the happy balance of being cognizant of our health and responsive but when you take someone like me with OCD issues you can go down a rabit hole real quick of chasing down diseases you don't have. On the other hand...you don't want to put something off if you think something is wrong. Truth be told it's a bit of a mind f*ck.

I wish you all the best man keep us posted.