potassium

[GyM RaT 03]

Hey bros. I just bought some potassium for my clen cycle but I am not sure if it is the right type. I bought potassium gluconate. Is this ok to use. Thanks alot


GR03

 

[MikeS]

Id also use a magnesium/calcuim supplement.

 

[GyM RaT 03]

bump so its ok

 

[BrooklynJuice]

dont forget about taurine

 

[GyM RaT 03]

yea i have the taurine i just started today so far i have taken 20 mcg's of clen 2 grams of taurine and 100 mg's of potassium. I am going to take one more potassium before bed. HOws that sound. And if i start to get cramping then i will up the potassium and taurine.


GR03

 

[BrooklynJuice]

2 grams taurine is a drop in the bucket IMO

i'd up it to 10-15 gram range taken w/o any protein so it does bind up

 

[GyM RaT 03]

alright bro thanks alot. I had read on another board that 2-5 grams a day would be fine. So you think that I should deffinitly up it.

GR03

 

[xcelbeyond]

When I was getting big time cramps, Animal suggested ~14g Taurine. This really helped!

xcel

 

[GyM RaT 03]

So what do you guys think. SHould I stat with the high dose of taurine from teh start or should I only up it to that high if i start to get bad cramps.


GR03

 

[xcelbeyond]

Taurine will only benefit you. I'll let BJ explain

xcel

 

[BrooklynJuice]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following was part of "cocksucker" thread, posted by Animal.



BingO! Taurine also regulates the amount of water in the cell as well as Mg and Ca transfers and affects the transfer of metabolic products out of the cell such as free radicals. In the use of DNP you have an overload of free radicals. So if your liver is losing it's taurine it is having its osmotic pressure changed across the surface of the cell just like glycogen depletion! T4 t3 conversion will stop!


Furthermore, as I have stated, you take Mg, Ca, AND TAURINE for muscle cramps for this very reason! Taurine is being depleted from EVERY cell while on clenbuterol and so you cramp.

Here is another study to prove that:
Painful muscle cramps in liver cirrhosis and effects of oral taurine administration
Author
Yamamoto S; Ohmoto K; Ideguchi S; Yamamoto R; Mitsui Y; Shimabara M; Iguchi Y; Ohumi T; Takatori K
Address
Division of Gastroenterology (I), Kawasaki Medical School.
Source
Nippon Shokakibyo Gakkai Zasshi, 91(7):1205 9 1994 Jul
Abstract
We administered 3 g of taurine orally for four weeks to 35 patients suffering from liver cirrhosis with repeated muscle cramp (MC). Improvement of MC was noted in 22 cases (62.9%). We also determined the plasma taurine concentration in eight cases of liver cirrhosis with MC. The plasma taurine concentration before ingestion was 54.1 +/ 20.7 nmol/ml, whereas that of four weeks after ingestion was 125.1 +/ 59.1 nmol/ml, which was significantly elevated by 2.3 fold. As the concentration increased, the frequency of MC decreased, suggesting the good correlation between ingestion and the decrease in frequency of MC. In liver cirrhosis without MC the plasma taurine concentration was 81.0 +/ 16.7 nmol/ml, which was significantly higher than in liver cirrhosis
with MC. In a few cases with taurine ingestion, serial plasma taurine concentrations were detected. Plasma taurine reached the peak value during the first week of ingestion and plasma taurine levels were maintained 2 5 fold higher during ingestion.


So, what have we learned?
Taurine is the cause of cramps.
Taurine is most likely the cause of clenbuterol's downgrade.

I have worked with people who had cramps and tried supplementing potassium with little benefits. Not to say that it doesn't work, but YOU could be treating SYMPTOMS instead of the cause. Flow of taurine out of the cell and its water will also take the others with it (potassium).

Additionally, Taurine is not incorporated into proteins but remains free in the tissues, especially
muscle and nerve tissues. Cramping is not only a function of muscle cells, but the study above showed that it may also be a function of nerve cells. When they lose their equilibrium they are what cramps and THIS is why you cramp on STUPID SCAM CREATINE. Creatine goes into the muscle and while your muscles hold onto more water the ratio in nerve cells will still change (lower) with exercise and you get cramps.

Again, I'm not saying that potassium won't work, but that is symptom and not a cause.


Taurine


Taurine, a sulfur containing amino acid derived from the amino acid cystine, is a component of the bile salts produced in the liver (it was first isolated from ox bile). It is important for proper digestion of fats and absorption of fat soluble vitamins. But only a fraction of available taurine is used to make bile salts,2 while an enormous amount floats freely inside cells.

Taurine is not incorporated into proteins but remains free in the tissues, especially muscle and nerve tissues. It has a number of therapeutic uses including acting as a membrane stabilizer and reducing arrhythmias of the heart. Taurine also enhances the contractile strength of heart muscle (called a positive inotropic effect)3, and thus can help treat heart failure which is a decreased ability of the heart to pump out all the blood that flows into it. When the heart is failing, the blood backs up and forces fluid out into the tissues (edema) by osmosis. This leads to either swelling of the legs or fluid in the lungs and shortness of breath, depending on which part of the heart is more involved.

In a 1984 animal study, taurine protected against heart failure, reducing mortality by 80 percent in the taurine treated group with no diminishment of cardiac function.4 In a later animal study in 1988, taurine was shown to lower blood pressure.5 My own clinical experience confirms some of these effects of taurine, and I commonly give it to patients with heart failure and high blood pressure.

Taurine is also beneficial for the eyes enhancing the rods and cones (the pigmented epithelial cells in the retina of the eye that serve as visual receptor cells). The greatest visual acuity occurs in the macular area of the retina near where the optic nerve enters from the back of the eye. With aging, the macula commonly degenerates as rods and cones die, often causing blindness. What causes the degeneration is not clear, but it is more common in diabetics and may be the result of free radical damage from ultraviolet light or oxygen exposure.6

A review of animal studies reveals that taurine appears to protect the eyes from macular degeneration.7 In one 1975 research report, a diet deficient in taurine was associated with retinal degeneration in cats.8 Thus, taurine can be part of a comprehensive approach to macular degeneration that also includes antioxidant nutrients, minerals, flavonoids, botanicals and chelation therapy (an intravenous therapy done in a doctor's office).

Because taurine is a neuroinhibitory amino acid, it may help treat seizure disorders. Some animal studies have suggested a role for taurine in controlling seizures, but the results are not consistent. In 1977, a cat with chronic epileptic seizures was successfully treated with taurine both orally and intravenously.9 Other studies have also suggested taurine's supportive role for seizures, but some clinical trials have shown limited benefits or have not confirmed this effect of taurine. I have used
taurine, in combination with magnesium and other nutrients, in my seizure patients with some success. It seems to enhance the effects of some of their seizure medications so they can take a lower dose.




REFERENCES

1. Linder, M., Ed. Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism, 2nd edition, Elsevier Scientific Publishing,
1991.

2. Chesney R.W. "Taurine: Its biological role and clinical implications," Adv Pediatr 32: 1 42, 1985.

3. Pisarenko, O.I. "Mechanisms of myocardial protection by amino acids: Facts and hypotheses," Clin Exp
Pharmacol Physiol 23 627 33, August, 1996.

4. Azuma, J., et al. "Beneficial effect of taurine on congestive heart failure induced by chronic aortic
regurgitation in rabbits," Res Commun Chem Pathol Pharmacol 45(2): 261 70, August, 1984.

5. Fujita, T., Sato, Y. "Hypotensive effect of taurine. Possible involvement of the sympathetic nervous system
and endogenous opiates," J Clin Invest 82(3): 993 97. September 1988.

6. Gaby, A.R., Wright, J.V. "Nutritional factors in degenerative eye disorders: Cataract and macular
degeneration," J Adv Med 6(1): 27 4O, Spring 1993.

7. Chesney, R.W. op. cit.

8. Hayes, K.C., Carey, R.E., et al. "Retinal degeneration associated with taurine deficiency in the cat,"
Science l88(4191): 949 51, May 30, 1975.

9. van Gelder, N.M., Koyama, I., et al. "Taurine treatment of spontaneous chronic epilepsy in a cat,"
Epilepsia 18(1): 45 54, March, 1977.

10. Pola, P., et al. "Statistical evaluation of long term L carnitine therapy in hyperlipoproteinaemias," Drugs
Exptl Clin Res 9: 925 34, 1983.

11. Orlando, G., Rusconi, C. "Oral L carnitine in the treatment of chronic cardiac ischaemia in elderly
patients," Clin Trials J 23: 338 44, 1986.

12. Singh, R.B., Niaz, M.A., et al. "A randomised, double blind, placebo controlled trial of L carnitine in
suspected acute myocardial infarction," Postgrad Med J 72(843): 45 50, January 1996.

13. Kobayashi, A., Watanabe, H., et al. "Effects of L carnitine and palmitoylcarnitine on membrane fluidity of

human erythrocytes," Biochim Biophys Acta 986(1): 83 8. Nov. 17, 1989.

14. Ghidini, O., Azzurro, M., et al. "Evaluation of the therapeutic efficacy of L carnitine in congestive heart
failure," Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther Toxicol 26(4): 217 20, April l988.

15. Dragan, I.G., Vasiliu A., et al. "Studies concerning chronic and acute effects of L carnitina in elite
athletes" Physiologie 26(2): 111 29, April June, 1989.

Taurine is the most abundant free amino acid in the brain, heart, and nervous system, and it plays a role in the normal functioning of the brain, heart, gallbladder, eyes, and vascular system. It facilitates the passage of sodium, potassium, and, possibly, calcium and magnesium, ions into and
out of cells, and electrically stabalizes cell membranes. It modulates the activity the activity of cAMP, which activates important enzymes in heary muscle, and contributes to the muscle's contractibility. Taurine is an important component of bile acids which aid in the absorption of fat soluble vitamins. It aids the body's chemistry by detoxifying harmful chemicals. Dietary taurine stimulates the formation of taurocholate, a substance which increases cholesterol secretion in the bile and also improves fat metabolism in the liver. Taurine offers a wide range of nutritional support to many organ systems throughout the body; as a supplement it is most notable known for
its heart muscle support.

 

[GyM RaT 03]

so basically your saying that more is better from what I understadn is that right.


GR03

 

[BrooklynJuice]

no there is off course a limit

you really cant OD on taurine but i would say 10-15 grams a day is plenty.

try taking no more than 5 grams at a time (unless your gonna use say 10 grams before bed). 1 level teaspoon = 5 grams of pure powder.

Also protein meals may bind up some of the taurine (as is the case with most free amino's) so try it empty stomach or low pro meals.

 

[Superior1]

??

I think your question basically was is Potassium Gluconate a better choice than Potassium Aspartate?

 

[big_byrd52]

would the taurine help with an irregular heart beat?

 

[GyM RaT 03]

yea that was pretty much it.

GR03

 

[Superior1]

Potassium gluconate comes in a tablet that can be chewed with juice also. Since gluconate is metabolized in the body, this form should be similar in effect to potassium from plants or from the bicarbonate (bicarbonate to be discussed later with sodium free baking powder). Potassium has been prescribed as the aspartate usually with magnesium for heart disease. I do not know what the rationale for using the aspartate anion is. However both magnesium and potassium are absorbed more effectively as the chloride than as the aspartate.

Some other exerpts below

There is a liquid supplement in which the bitter taste of potassium is masked by cherry extract. It is conceivable that a child could get a fatal overdose in this form. Non of the above concoctions are substantially more dangerous than other household items like aspirin, for instance. I would recommend against storing potassium in an easy to eat form, however. Liquids containing more than 390 milligrams of potassium must have a prescription in order to be sold in the USA. 100 milligrams is the limit for tablets.


Sodium free baking powder is a supplement also, including those times when used for baking. It is potassium as the bicarbonate or tartrate. Dissolved in fruit juice, the bicarbonate gives it a delightful tang like soda pop soft drinks. The bicarbonate has been shown to be not as effective as the chloride in relieving a deficiency both as to reducing cell sodium content and raising plasma levels of potassium [Giebisch][DeLand]. However, potassium as the chloride has the same affect as potassium from unprocessed food coupled with hydrochloric acid supplements. There are times when this might be disadvantageous. High blood pressure may be one time , for potassium chloride has been shown to increase blood pressure in rats. This may be because of difficulty in handling hydrogen ion (acid) in some forms of high blood pressure. Support is given to this possibility since sodium bicarbonate lowered blood pressure 5 mm of mercury while sodium chloride had no affect [Luft], possibly because sodium chloride was already high in their diet. Both sodium and chloride is necessary for pressure augmentation [Boegshold]. This phenomenon may be involved with 18 hydroxy deoxycorticosterone steroid hormone (18OHDOC) because that hormone is raised in one of the forms of high blood pressure and that hormone is the hormone used by the body to increase acid excretion.

There is a safety advantage in keeping your taste in touch with potassium supplement. Potassium chloride dissolved in fruit juice gives it a fine, rich flavor in reasonable amounts. When too much is put in, the flavor becomes nauseating and bitter. Thus you have a built in safeguard. Another inherent safeguard is the presence of adequate water. Potassium supplementation is especially dangerous during dehydration, as was mentioned in Regulation of Electrolytes because of a drastic decline of aldosterone. The use of juice reduces danger during dehydration somewhat. Even so, supplements should not be taken until at least an hour after dehydration has been largely corrected to give aldosterone a chance to be resecreted. An additional advantage of juice in conjunction with potassium is that it can be more readily taken between meals. Potassium can be more readily absorbed then because it does not tend to form an overload combined with potassium in food. That also makes it less dangerous for people with weak hearts or kidneys. People with very weak kidneys should be under a doctor’s care and should not take potassium supplements. In addition, between meals probably provides minimum interference with other nutrient absorption, such as that of magnesium. For a similar reason it is probably advantageous to divide meals into more than three per day when recovering from a deficiency