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Pre-workout stimulants (KillerStack, Elvia, little_slice or anyone of you who knows)

jeroendebleser

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Guys,

Is there an inherent benefit regular caffeine (in the popular pre-workout supps) has over other stimulants such as particularly the Dextroamphetamine I take on a daily basis for my ADHD?

Iomax/Phentermine is another stimulant I also sometimes use alongside my Dexamph.

I'm talking about (possible) thermogenic benefits caffeine has over the other two, strength increases specific to caffeine, ...

Or would it be futile and probably not very healthy to add a caffeine-jolt on top of the Dexamph already in my system?

I've always taken some form of caffeine pre-workout but lately I'm wondering if I would not be as well or better of just taking one of my Dexamphetamine doses pre-workout.

Thx to all of you!
 

little slice

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what type of goal are you pursuing right now (gaining size vs. fat loss)?




and what does your blood pressure look like on the Dextroamphetamine?
 

jeroendebleser

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I'm currently doing a recomp so both hopefully. I started training again in November after several surgeries, hence the recomp. Recomping is basically all I've been doing since then since I restarted with no real muscle left and a bit too much flab :p

I'm also on Bisoprolol so my bp is always fine, Dexamphetamine is also quite smooth compared to Concerta, it hardly raises my blood pressure.

Does anyone know if Dexamphetamine covers all my workout-related bases or would some caffeine have additional benefits?

I expected more tweakers to chime in but apparently I'm a minority :D
 

little slice

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so you're on a beta blocker and an amphetamine..




idk man..



I personally love stimulants. but I try to take weekends off with them so I can stay sensitive.
 

G.I.Bro

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I think it's somewhat wise to use Bistolic when using clen. It's highly selective to heart tissue only at low doses so you get the benefits of clen without the racing heart rate and activation in actual cardiac tissue receptors. Using a broader multiple beta receptor blockers with clen or other stimulants kind of cancel each other out though.

I did a big write up on using stimulants safer like this but never posted it because it basically promoted DNP use over clen/T3 for health. Lol. Maybe I should.
 

little slice

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I did a big write up on using stimulants safer like this but never posted it because it basically promoted DNP use over clen/T3 for health. Lol. Maybe I should.






I wonder if mainstream acceptance of DNP will ever become a real thing again..


too many bodybuilding coaches like Palumbo and Cardone spreading bullshit lies about it because they know it will cost them clients if people realize the truth.
 

G.I.Bro

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I wonder if mainstream acceptance of DNP will ever become a real thing again..


too many bodybuilding coaches like Palumbo and Cardone spreading bullshit lies about it because they know it will cost them clients if people realize the truth.
Unlikely, it's super low LD50 doesn't help either. But it's certainly more accepted, understood and common than 5 years ago.
 

little slice

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Unlikely, it's super low LD50 doesn't help either. But it's certainly more accepted, understood and common than 5 years ago.



ur just helping them spread their bullshit :eek:




Palumbo always says that the LD50 is like... RIGHT before the dose that will actually show results.. lol


damn fear monger... and he knows EXACTLY what he's doing
 

G.I.Bro

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ur just helping them spread their bullshit :eek:




Palumbo always says that the LD50 is like... RIGHT before the dose that will actually show results.. lol


damn fear monger... and he knows EXACTLY what he's doing
I agree. Caps are pretty safe. But you get meatheads ordering raw powder and trying to weigh or do they math themselves on dosing and it could get ugly. Lol. Just saying, there's a chance there. Most don't sell bulk powder though for a reason.
 
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jeroendebleser

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so you're on a beta blocker and an amphetamine..

That made me lol. I know it doesn't sound too good but I have both ADHD and sinus tachycardia so it's a must for me. But it cancels out most of the amphetamine's negatives and doesn't really disrupt it's positives so I'm good.

No need to worry about me ;)
 

jeroendebleser

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I think it's somewhat wise to use Bistolic when using clen. It's highly selective to heart tissue only at low doses so you get the benefits of clen without the racing heart rate and activation in actual cardiac tissue receptors. Using a broader multiple beta receptor blockers with clen or other stimulants kind of cancel each other out though.

I did a big write up on using stimulants safer like this but never posted it because it basically promoted DNP use over clen/T3 for health. Lol. Maybe I should.

You should because I for one think you and little_slice are definitely onto something regarding it being healthier (or less unhealthy better yet).

My bp is always low no matter how much amphetamine, tren and other stuff is in my system.

My bp however does get high when I throw T3 into the mix.

But I was never a big fan of T3 to begin with. Catabolic and overrated for fat loss. You're better off cutting out some extra calories (ideal) or doing some more cardio (less than ideal imo since also slightly catabolic).
 

little slice

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t3 is an awful substance (unless of course, you are naturally deficient).
 

Stewie

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The term cataboloic gets tossed around pretty loosely when T3 is in discussion.

Are we referencing physiological T3, fT3, FT4,TSH, ect? or even mildly supraphysiological--> hyperthyroidism?

Are we hypocaloric, normocaloric or hypercaloric?

Is this with or without any sort of testosterone --AAS or GH?

Has any one person here determined they're in a negative nitrogen state through a NITU sampling?

Or are we passing around what we think we know?

I challenge the cataboloic crew to cite such references if one's using an anabolic in conjunction with T3.
 
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little slice

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The term cataboloic gets tossed around pretty loosely when T3 is in discussion.

Are we referencing physiological T3, fT3, FT4,TSH, ect? or even mildly supraphysiological--> hyperthyroidism?

supraphysiological to the extent that bodybuilders typically use... that's a wide range of course :eek:

Are we hypocaloric, normocaloric or hypercaloric?

hypocaloric

Is this with or without any sort of testosterone --AAS or GH?

with

Has any one person here determined they're in a negative nitrogen state through a NITU sampling?

no

Or are we passing around what we think we know?

yes.. lol :eek:

I challenge the cataboloic crew to cite such references if one's using an anabolic in conjunction with T3.



I see what you're saying


but to be fair... does such a study exist to support either side of the fence?
 

jeroendebleser

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You're right Stewie, this all applies only when in a state of hyperthyroidism.

I've only ever seen one study (please don't make me find it lol) on T3 use with concurrent Testosterone administration, 1 group T3-only, 1 group both and the T3-only group lost muscle tissue, while the Testosterone + T3 group gained some muscle tissue.

This was the same study people wrongly deducted from that T3 ups protein synthesis and that has people using T3 for that purpose. Obviously it was the Testosterone that upped protein synthesis but often times people take out of studies what they want to be true.
 

Stewie

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I see what you're saying


but to be fair... does such a study exist to support either side of the fence?

Yep.

Although I'll patiently wait for somebody to cite the opposite.

A very well designed study.
 

little slice

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well im obviously going to defer to Stewie's vastly greater knowledge on the subject.






because among other things... I only have anecdotal experience to support my position :eek:
 

Stewie

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You're right Stewie, this all applies only when in a state of hyperthyroidism.

I've only ever seen one study (please don't make me find it lol) on T3 use with concurrent Testosterone administration, 1 group T3-only, 1 group both and the T3-only group lost muscle tissue, while the Testosterone + T3 group gained some muscle tissue.

This was the same study people wrongly deducted from that T3 ups protein synthesis and that has people using T3 for that purpose. Obviously it was the Testosterone that upped protein synthesis but often times people take out of studies what they want to be true.

You're correct.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/84/1/207/2866215
 

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