Serge Nubret's Training Methods

[petersouth]

Interesting to see a guy at 70 training high volume with 20" arms and no gear.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIPZgmxgg_s]Serge Nubret 70 Years Young training for his forth coming seminar in london - YouTube[/ame]

Everyone says high volume only work with steroids but maybe it's just the opposite. It's hard to look at Nubret or a 60 something year old Frank Zane who basically looks the way he did in his competition days and cry steroids. Here was a guy who basically trained 30-40 sets a body part twice a week resting maybe 30 seconds between sets and looked great pretty much until he died.

Everyone thinks Dorian's school of HIT held the keys for the hardgaining, muscularly challenged general public but if that is true maybe we should ask his torn bicep, Ronnies torn lat or the huge gut on either one. Will he still train that way at 70? Look as good as Nubret did? One could argue THAT style only works with plenty of steroids and a good health plan. Look at some modern bodybuilders, the shitty form they use, their huge guts, the ridiculous weights they throw around and how often they injure themselves, it's becoming a joke and everyone knows "it's all steroids". Is that the way to health and a good body?

How many torn muscles on Nubret? Zero. Not hard when you don't bench more than 225 for 8 quick sets of 12. Still the man had a 500lb bench press when he wanted it. Obviously there is more than one way to progress in strength. So which training method or style is ideal for people who don't use steroids (just about everyone who doesn't compete)?

I've been trying his routine he recommended for beginner-intermediates which is taking what you see below and halving the sets for everything. It was a lot of fun letting everyone see me struggle set after set with a 100lb barbell and gasping for breath.

The first reason I was hopeful about this training style is because Serge claims to be natural and I don't want to use any more. He's the only pro I'd believe to be natural given the place and time he grew up and how well developed he was before he left the island he grew up on. You look at pictures of him at 16 after 2 years of training and he already looks like a bodybuilder. Sure, maybe he has all "genetics" and someone slipped some dbol tabs but maybe he was onto something. He says to young bodybuilders there is no such thing as overtraining only undereating or undersleeping, keep training if you are sore, tired, etc, it flies in the face of everything that is taught. Instead of steroids he ate 4lbs of horse meat every day along with beans and rice, never dieted or did cardio, just 2000 situps every morning and work out . Would you grow if you ate like that and train like he did? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't tried it, have you?

The second reason is every time I start to get my strength back my shoulder or back gets strained and I lose all my strength and any size that went with it. The amount of strength I have to gain to put on any size is prohibitive at this point. Not only that but even after increasing my bench 100lbs I don't grow a whole lot so the cost/benefit ratio is way off here. After a month training this way I see a noticeable improvement in size and body composition, I look better than I ever did on juice years ago lifting heavy weights (not saying much but hey) and I'm still using the same weights I started with.

Just thought I'd start this discussion because everyone seems to talk only about increasing the weight and never changing the rest between sets. It's one thing to do lots of sets and wait 2 minutes, it's quite another to rest 15 or 30 seconds as Nubret and Gironda advocate. The weights get embarrassingly light, to me it seems this training builds muscle capacity more than anything else. Most people recommend that you need to be fully recovered to start another set, the old school guys say the cardio will come, don't let the muscle recover, hit it again.

One reason I think these guys can get away with so many sets is the lack of CNS stimulation, it is purely on the muscle. I don't feel nearly as worn down training this way since it is all muscle pump so it's not hard to hit it again only 2 days later.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on the merits of this style of training.

 

[petersouth]

Serge Nubret’s Routine:

Monday:

Quads

Squats – 8 sets of 12 reps

Leg Press – 6 sets of 12 reps

Leg Extension – 6 sets of 12 reps

Chest

Bench Press – 8 sets of 12 reps

Flat Bench Flye’s – 6 sets of 12 reps

Incline Bench Press – 6 sets of 12 reps

Incline Flye’s – 6 sets of 12 reps

Dumbbell Pullovers – 6 sets of 12 reps

Tuesday:

Back

Chin-ups – 6 sets of 12 reps

Behind the Neck Lat Pulldowns – 8 sets of 12 reps

Lat Pulldowns to the Front – 6 sets of 12 reps

Barbell Bent-over Rows – 6 sets of 12 reps

Hamstrings

Lying Leg Curl – 8 sets of 15 reps

Standing Leg Curl – 8 sets of 15 reps

Wednesday:

Shoulders

Behind the Neck Barbell Press – 6 sets of 12 reps

Alternate Dumbbell Front Raise – 6 sets of 12 reps

Barbell Upright Row – 6 sets of 12 reps

Cable Lateral Raise – 6 sets of 12 reps

Arms

Barbell Curl superset with Triceps Pushdowns – 8 sets of 12 reps

Dumbbell Curl superset with Triceps Dips – 8 sets of 12 reps

Calves

Standing Calf Raises – 8 sets of 12 reps

Seated Calf Raises – 8 sets of 12 reps

Thursday:

(Same as Monday)

Quads

Squats – 8 sets of 12 reps

Leg Press – 6 sets of 12 reps

Leg Extension – 6 sets of 12 reps

Chest

Bench Press – 8 sets of 12 reps

Flat Bench Flye’s – 6 sets of 12 reps

Incline Bench Press – 6 sets of 12 reps

Incline Flye’s – 6 sets of 12 reps

Dumbbell Pullovers – 6 sets of 12 reps

Friday:

(Same as Tuesday)

Back

Chin-ups – 6 sets of 12 reps

Behind the Neck Lat Pulldowns – 8 sets of 12 reps

Lat Pulldowns to the Front – 6 sets of 12 reps

Barbell Bent-over Rows – 6 sets of 12 reps

Hamstrings

Lying Leg Curl – 8 sets of 15 reps

Standing Leg Curl – 8 sets of 15 reps

Saturday:

(Same as Wednesday)

Shoulders

Behind the Neck Barbell Press – 6 sets of 12 reps

Alternate Dumbbell Front Raise – 6 sets of 12 reps

Barbell Upright Row – 6 sets of 12 reps

Cable Lateral Raise – 6 sets of 12 reps

Arms

Barbell Curl superset with Triceps Pushdowns – 16 sets of 12 reps

Dumbbell Curl superset with Triceps Dips – 16 sets of 12 reps

Calves

Standing Calf Raises – 8 sets of 12 reps

Seated Calf Raises – 8 sets of 12 reps

Sunday:

Stay at home in bed and recover.

 

[Ashop]

There are so many numerous effective ways to train. I don't thnk that one certain style is better over another. Some people genetic make up wont allow a 30-40 set workout.

 

[lntense]

Nubret was a genetic god, I'm sure anything would have worked for him with or without steroids. Find out what works for you and your genetics.


Whos to say he wouldnt have looked 10x better lifting heavy, you dont know because thats not how he trained.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Serge was my all time favorite bodybuilder. I watched him guest pose in the early 90's. He was a very nice man and had what I consider to be perfect symmetry.....a true work of art.

I hate to ruin your fantasy about being natural. My boy was friends with his girlfriend, a flight attendant back in the day, who used to bring him parabolan from France and everything else they all used in the 70's, but who gives a shit really. There is nothing wrong with using anabolics. It's all about building the perfect body and he trained like an animal. He told me he did 1,000 full sit ups every morning which took him 45 minutes non-stop and he did it for 40 years at the time that I met him.

 

[petersouth]

Nubret was a genetic god, I'm sure anything would have worked for him with or without steroids. Find out what works for you and your genetics.


Whos to say he wouldnt have looked 10x better lifting heavy, you dont know because thats not how he trained.

Actually hardgainers have more slow twitch endurance muscle fibers so they should grow better on high reps and sets.

I think two mistakes I think everyone does.

1. Resting too long, should be 15-30 seconds for upper body or 1 minute or less for legs. If you rest too long you will fry your CNS because weight is too much and workout takes too long.

2. Not eating or sleeping enough.

I used to not grow from high volume but now I do because I have a slower metabolism and more money to buy food.

I doubt anyone looks like Nubret on 5 sets of 5 regardless of their genetics.

It's more like train for the look you want instead of your genetics.

If you want to look like Nubret, do what Nubret does.

If you want to look like Coleman, do what he does.

 

[petersouth]

Serge was my all time favorite bodybuilder. I watched him guest pose in the early 90's. He was a very nice man and had what I consider to be perfect symmetry.....a true work of art.

I hate to ruin your fantasy about being natural. My boy was friends with his girlfriend, a flight attendant back in the day, who used to bring him parabolan from France and everything else they all used in the 70's, but who gives a shit really. There is nothing wrong with using anabolics. It's all about building the perfect body and he trained like an animal. He told me he did 1,000 full sit ups every morning which took him 45 minutes non-stop and he did it for 40 years at the time that I met him.

I think he did too realistically but I think he also proved he didn't need it to look damn good.

My point was, to go to extremes, more like ok imagine Branch Warren at 70 training the same way he does now.

 

[ALLEX]

I doubt anyone looks like Nubret on 5 sets of 5 regardless of their genetics.

Nubret would look like Nubret on 5x5

It's more like train for the look you want instead of your genetics.

Quite the opposite.

If you want to look like Nubret, do what Nubret does.

If you want to look like Nubret, be Nubret.

If you want to look like Coleman, do what he does.

If you want to look like Coleman, be Coleman.

 

[ROCKEDUP]

Nubret would look like Nubret on 5x5



Quite the opposite.



If you want to look like Nubret, be Nubret.



If you want to look like Coleman, be Coleman.

YES! I'm in total agreement.

 

[Elvia1023]

I like this thread and thanks for posting. But as others have highlighted your thinking is way off. He used gear but so what he looked incredible... one of my favs of all time. I agree with everything Allex states too. Sure there will be minor differences if someone trained very heavy for low reps 100% of the time compared to the opposite... so rep ranges (etc) can definitely have an effect on the way you look. But to say to look like Ronnie do what he done and so on is complete rubbish. Fact is these guys would look pretty similar regardless of their training style. His style of training is great but as others have stated there are many effective ways to train. I am currently training like Serge at the moment to avoid any possible injuries and for a change. I think this is a very effective method especially for older guys who shouldn't really be going all out on squats with as much weight as they can for say 8 reps. Minimal rest and lighter weights but complete intensity is a great way to train imo.

 

[petersouth]

Nubret would look like Nubret on 5x5



Quite the opposite.



If you want to look like Nubret, be Nubret.



If you want to look like Coleman, be Coleman.

Nah, c'mon if you look at small framed guys symmetrical like Nubret and Zane they train the same way.

Flex Wheeler same thing but more juice.

 

[marshallmadman]

I do love this training methodology. Here's the thing. You need variety, and you need to be able to step back out of your ego, and be honest with yourself about your gains. You need to be able to read yourself enough to know when your gains are coming to a halt. When that happens, go to a different style of training. The 5x5 program everyone is mentioning is seriously not a bodybuilding workout, but it could be incorporated for a few weeks to add variety.

You need to figure out what type of muscle fiber your body has the most of, and train with an emphasis on that. When gains halt on a particular training style, switch to a completely different system. Also, this type of strategy doesn't really apply to beginners.

 

[petersouth]

I like this thread and thanks for posting. But as others have highlighted your thinking is way off. He used gear but so what he looked incredible... one of my favs of all time. I agree with everything Allex states too. Sure there will be minor differences if someone trained very heavy for low reps 100% of the time compared to the opposite... so rep ranges (etc) can definitely have an effect on the way you look. But to say to look like Ronnie do what he done and so on is complete rubbish. Fact is these guys would look pretty similar regardless of their training style. His style of training is great but as others have stated there are many effective ways to train. I am currently training like Serge at the moment to avoid any possible injuries and for a change. I think this is a very effective method especially for older guys who shouldn't really be going all out on squats with as much weight as they can for say 8 reps. Minimal rest and lighter weights but complete intensity is a great way to train imo.

Nah, I think we are having two seperate debates.

One approach has longevity and application beyond steroids, the other doesn't.

I think he proved he wasn't all steroids by looking that way at 70.

Serge certainly disagreed and even though his thinking was "off" it didn't hurt him, he never trained heavy, didn't do deadlifts at all.

 

[ALLEX]

Nah, c'mon if you look at small framed guys symmetrical like Nubret and Zane they train the same way.

Flex Wheeler same thing but more juice.

Paul Dillet trained like this.

Do you really think Ronnie trained the way you see on the "lightweight baby" videos?

The difference between Nubret and Ronnie relies more on HGH and insulin than anything related to training.

 

[petersouth]

I do love this training methodology. Here's the thing. You need variety, and you need to be able to step back out of your ego, and be honest with yourself about your gains. You need to be able to read yourself enough to know when your gains are coming to a halt. When that happens, go to a different style of training. The 5x5 program everyone is mentioning is seriously not a bodybuilding workout, but it could be incorporated for a few weeks to add variety.

You need to figure out what type of muscle fiber your body has the most of, and train with an emphasis on that. When gains halt on a particular training style, switch to a completely different system. Also, this type of strategy doesn't really apply to beginners.

Crazy because a lot of those guys would tell you the opposite.

Even Ronnie said he trained the same way for 25 years which is basically high volume with more rest.

Serge never trained any other way and scoffed at "changing things up". He recommended it for beginners and told one guy who asked about other programs to quit doubting himself. He advocated more ego.

There was no "build strength and then use that strength to squeeze your fibers harder". Nope, just high volume.

There was no, "you need to squat to build your arms" bs. He would tell you to train your arms more.

 

[petersouth]

Paul Dillet trained like this.

Do you really think Ronnie trained the way you see on the "lightweight baby" videos?

The difference between Nubret and Ronnie relies more on HGH and insulin than anything related to training.

Of course big guys train this way too but telling a guy with a small frame of a Lee Labrada to train heavy is silly.

His joints won't make it, I found that out the hard way.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I think he did too realistically but I think he also proved he didn't need it to look damn good.

My point was, to go to extremes, more like ok imagine Branch Warren at 70 training the same way he does now.

Serge actually posted pictures showing how he looked before touching AAS and he looked good enough to win any state show in the USA. Genetics are always the most implant factor.

I like his style of training. I respond so much better to very high volume, although I rest longer than he did. I like to train for 2 1/2 to 3 hours with weights followed by a half hour or more of cardio. My whore body feels full for days after that. I get around 50 total sets in on upperbody days. I train my entire upperbody 3x/wk and legs twice, depending on recovery.

 

[st114]

I like to train for 2 1/2 to 3 hours with weights followed by a half hour or more of cardio. My whore body feels full for days after that. I get around 50 total sets in on upperbody days. I train my entire upperbody 3x/wk and legs twice, depending on recovery.

But this guy is delusional if he thinks Nubret was natural, he was loaded to the hilt just like every other guy.
Personally I think everyone responds to different types of training, and I don't agree with not changing it up. Some of my muscles (legs, back, chest) respond to heavy weight, low reps, while some of my muscles respond to volume (shoulders, arms). You just have to experiment for yourself. Maybe both methods work for you, who knows. But still change it up so you don't become mentally stale. I've read before that the best workout is the one that you believe in, and I find that to be true. If you don't believe what you're doing will work, you'll half-ass it

 

[c oncreteguy]

I wrote a paper on the Anasci mag about multiple high rep failure sets. I'm a believer. At 52 I have made huge gains. My stage weight is up 12lbs from last season doing this.
I think there is something going on with less weight and higher reps. Being that your window of failure is MUCH broader and allows (deeper) damage.
Myself and my partner who is half my age are both growing fast doing this.
But we ain't clean either......

CG

 

[johnjuanb1]

But this guy is delusional if he thinks Nubret was natural, he was loaded to the hilt just like every other guy.
Personally I think everyone responds to different types of training, and I don't agree with not changing it up. Some of my muscles (legs, back, chest) respond to heavy weight, low reps, while some of my muscles respond to volume (shoulders, arms). You just have to experiment for yourself. Maybe both methods work for you, who knows. But still change it up so you don't become mentally stale. I've read before that the best workout is the one that you believe in, and I find that to be true. If you don't believe what you're doing will work, you'll half-ass it

I agree. I change training styles a few times per year. It's good to over train for a few months, then under train: train heavy with 8-10 for a few months, then tons of volume with 12-20 reps. You have to keep the body guessing.

It's a safe assumption that AAS use is a sign of the times in which the era came from. In those days they used a little dbol, deca, parabolan, winstrol, anadrol. Now, they use a lot of insulin, hgh, igf1, and a shit-ton of AAS. Typically, bodybuilders use what their peers use and copy the efforts of their friends.