• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
pharmapct
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
advertise1
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
roids-210x65-48kb-1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Stopped HCG, feel MUCH better

Matsuo Munefusa

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,101
I thought it was common knowledge and reason why HCG is recommended during cycle and not on PCT. I could be wrong.

I've only ever heard it discussed as bro-lore is the reason I ask. I am open to being proven wrong, but at this point I think my own anecdotal evidence is plenty for me to believe no downregulation is occurring. I've been using HCG for 8 years total and 5 years on a consistent regimen. 200iu HCG 3x/week causes a linear rise in total T and estrogen values that has remained pretty constant over the last 5 years of consistent use. It hasn't gotten "weaker" over time.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,101
edit -

ah, I see Alexx, we are discussing two different topics. Swifto is replying to your claim it downregulates LH/leydig receptors. Downregulation is a technical term in neurobiology meaning basically the receptors in question cease to function (either temporarily or permanently). It has never been proven in humans. You mean LH downregulation as something like "HPTA suppression". You are claiming it suppresses HPTA, which is TRUE. HCG is suppressive, while you're on it your body stimulates testosterone which converts to estrogen and suppresses your natural recovery. Hence why people use it ON CYCLE and not OFF CYCLE.

For TRT it is generally recommended to be included because it stimulates pathways for production of pregnenolone and DHEA...and suppression is a non-issue because TRT is for life.

I understand where the confusion rests now. Simple miscommunication.
 
Last edited:

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,070
Low dose hcg is great. Too much and I'm an emotional wreck and feel like a little girl. If I go above 500iu 2-3 times a week I immediately get depressed and anxious. Even with a hefty dose of an AI (hcg estrogen apparently gets around AI's completely)

My own experience with hcg and Arimidex supports this, E2 spikes from hell. On Letro I was on massive doses of hcg and had very suppressed E2 levels. I tested multiple times on Letro and the results were consistent. I have better libido on hcg but get tired of the constant E2 fluctuations.
 

ALLEX

Banned
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
6,859
ah, I see Alexx, we are discussing two different topics. Swifto is replying to your claim it downregulates LH/leydig receptors. Downregulation is a technical term in neurobiology meaning basically the receptors in question cease to function (either temporarily or permanently). It has never been proven in humans. You mean LH downregulation as something like "HPTA suppression". You are claiming it suppresses HPTA, which is TRUE. HCG is suppressive, while you're on it your body stimulates testosterone which converts to estrogen and suppresses your natural recovery. Hence why people use it ON CYCLE and not OFF CYCLE.

For TRT it is generally recommended to be included because it stimulates pathways for production of pregnenolone and DHEA...and suppression is a non-issue because TRT is for life.

I understand where the confusion rests now. Simple miscommunication.

Oh, I see... Sorry for the poor wording.
 

Swifto

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
3,005
There are LH receptors in the brain that hCG can activate, hence the better sense of well being when included with TRT. Too high a dose during PCT could prevent the LH/FSH release expected during PCT.

This doesn't really occur, not in the presence of SERMs during PCT.

If used alone it might, but not SERM + HCG. Dr. Scally has posted his own study on Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism (ASIH) and LH/FSH rose consistently after 6 weeks of treatment.
 

TODouble2

Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
934
For the record, it's not because of estrogen. Even on high doses of HCG I never have estrogen issues. E2 is always near perfect every time I have had bloodwork in the last few years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,070
This doesn't really occur, not in the presence of SERMs during PCT.

If used alone it might, but not SERM + HCG. Dr. Scally has posted his own study on Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism (ASIH) and LH/FSH rose consistently after 6 weeks of treatment.

LH levels rise quickly after cycle without intervention as well. At the doses we tend to use during PCT I doubt it would be an issue for most. I always started PCT with hcg the first half and finished with SERM the second half.

For the OP, at the levels you were taking its very well could have been impairing HPTA recovery.
 
Last edited:

TODouble2

Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
934
LH levels rise quickly after cycle without intervention as well. At the doses we tend to use during PCT I doubt it would be an issue for most. I always started PCT with hcg the first half and finished with SERM the second half.



For the OP, at the levels you were taking its very well could have been impairing HPTA recovery.


I'm just not sure if there's a difference in approach for different scenarios. Meaning... I'm not necessarily worried about recovering testosterone production nearly as much as I'm trying to achieve normal sperm count.

So from what my doctor made it seem like.. the high dose of HCG was in an attempt to force a reaction, to create sperm. Maybe if I was just trying to recover testosterone levels, and not necessarily trying to have children, the approach would be different?






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,070
Have you discussed HMG with your doctor? It's more expensive but possibly more effective too.

This might be of interest. ALR wrote this years ago and I'm sure low dose Arimidex can replace the Formastane as it's very expensive. I can't find the write up but HCG was used in a very specific pattern here too. He recommended running it three times back to back with 5 days off between them.

Blasting Big Balls Protocol: (right from the book)
Day
1. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
2. Lupron .35 mg
3. Lupron .35 mg
4. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
5. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
6. Lupron .35 mg
7. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
8. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Pergonal
9. HCG 2000iu
10. Pergonal
11. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
12. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
13. Pergonal
14. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
15. Pergonal
16. HCG 2000iu
17. Pergonal
18. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
19. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
20.
21. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
22. Lupron .35 mg
23. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
24. Lupron .35 mg
25. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
26. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
27. Lupron .35 mg
28. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
 

TODouble2

Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
934
Have you discussed HMG with your doctor? It's more expensive but possibly more effective too.

This might be of interest. ALR wrote this years ago and I'm sure low dose Arimidex can replace the Formastane as it's very expensive. I can't find the write up but HCG was used in a very specific pattern here too. He recommended running it three times back to back with 5 days off between them.

Blasting Big Balls Protocol: (right from the book)
Day
1. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
2. Lupron .35 mg
3. Lupron .35 mg
4. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
5. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
6. Lupron .35 mg
7. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
8. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Pergonal
9. HCG 2000iu
10. Pergonal
11. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
12. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
13. Pergonal
14. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
15. Pergonal
16. HCG 2000iu
17. Pergonal
18. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
19. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
20.
21. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
22. Lupron .35 mg
23. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
24. Lupron .35 mg
25. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
26. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
27. Lupron .35 mg
28. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu


i had to talk to doc into giving me HMG. i also had to tell him where i could order it from and i schooled him on dosing protocol. its sad when you have to teach your doctor about a drug.. so i took it for a month, then i left messages at the office for him to refill my prescription and never got a response.. so needless to say i stopped showing up to that office. i will probably just test my levels and sperm count soon and see where im at without all the drugs, then if need be i will get HMG on my own.

as far as the protocol you outlined above, this is something completely different from anything ive seen before.. caber, lupron, formastane, pergonal... this is the first time ive seen any of these in a fertility protocol for a man.. so i cant comment on that.
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,070
Honestly not surprised by your experience. I had to explain how low SHBG screwed up my TRT retention to my provider. Good luck, hope you feel better and can conceive a child.
 
Last edited:

Staff online

  • LATS
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge

Forum statistics

Total page views
522,570,133
Threads
128,016
Messages
2,533,737
Members
157,501
Latest member
indoorkart
Top