SubQ trt results

[DOGGCRAPP]

How? Free test is all that matters and my free test on 300mg was 395 and on 140 was 236? Also keep in mind on the 300mg the blood draw was 72hrs after the last shot so it's a lot higher.

You are comparing intramuscular to sub q correct? You used 140mg and look at the results....could you imagine if you did 300mg sub q and compared apples to apples

 

[emeric delczeg]

Free test is pointless, total test is all that matters. SHBG isn't a storage mechanism, it's an active transport mechanism, this has been known since membrane receptors for SHBG have been found about 25 years ago. Unfortunately, most people, including doctors, aren't up to speed.

What?, you mast be joking.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Well shit there goes anything I ever knew. So I take it this means that adding proviron or mast to increase free T was pointless all these years.

Free Testosterone is the more telling factor about what is bio-available for your body's tissues and organs to use. Some men feel perfectly fine at a testosterone baseline of 800 because their Free Testosterone level is relatively high, while others have all the symptoms of Low T at 800 because their Free Testosterone is low ,each man's body chemistry is different. This is why you need to determine your free blood serum Testosterone level, not only your total blood serum testosterone level.

It is very common for a general physician to deny you hormone treatment based on lab results that reflect that you are within the normal range for total testosterone, even though you may be experiencing all the symptoms of a testosterone deficiency. This is why it is important to determine your Free or Bioavailable testosterone baseline, especially when Low T symptoms are present.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Free test is pointless, total test is all that matters. SHBG isn't a storage mechanism, it's an active transport mechanism, this has been known since membrane receptors for SHBG have been found about 25 years ago. Unfortunately, most people, including doctors, aren't up to speed.

With all respect, you can have really high levels of total testosterone, but most will bound to either SHBG or albumin, you would not experience the benefits.

We not talking about storage we talk about free vs total benefits, the very powerful free testosterone that creates all benefits.

Research shows that about 60-70% of your testosterone is bound into SHBG which makes it unavailable and sends it to reserve.

If you lower the levels of SHBG you will easily increase the amount of free testosterone that circulates in our veins. That why I inject low doses daylily.

 

[Kaladryn]

With all respect, you can have really high levels of total testosterone, but most will bound to either SHBG or albumin, you would not experience the benefits.

We not talking about storage we talk about free vs total benefits, the very powerful free testosterone that creates all benefits.

Research shows that about 60-70% of your testosterone is bound into SHBG which makes it unavailable and sends it to reserve.

If you lower the levels of SHBG you will easily increase the amount of free testosterone that circulates in our veins. That why I inject low doses daylily.

But there is a receptor for SHBG+<sex hormone> on the membrane of the cell (not where the AR is, inside the cell). That receptor grabs SHBG+<sex hormone> and transports it inside the cell to the AR, then SHBG even modifies the transcription that subsequently takes place.

Basically, SHBG is much more complex than once thought. You can learn more about this by researching "SHBG membrane receptor."

I used to have a great link to some good info in this but it is gone with Dat's website going down...

Some good info here:
Sex hormone binding globulin and insulin resistance - Wallace - 2013 - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library

 

[emeric delczeg]

But there is a receptor for SHBG+<sex hormone> on the membrane of the cell (not where the AR is, inside the cell). That receptor grabs SHBG+<sex hormone> and transports it inside the cell to the AR, then SHBG even modifies the transcription that subsequently takes place.

Basically, SHBG is much more complex than once thought. You can learn more about this by researching "SHBG membrane receptor."

I used to have a great link to some good info in this but it is gone with Dat's website going down...

Some good info here:
Sex hormone binding globulin and insulin resistance - Wallace - 2013 - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library

Agent, we talking about free test vs total, not transport and storage. Your comment was that " free test is pointless".

 

[Kaladryn]

Agent, we talking about free test vs total, not transport and storage. Your comment was that " free test is pointless".

Well all I mean is that "free" and "bound" don't mean "active" and "inactive." In fact, that test that is bound to SHBG may well be MORE active than test that is free. Free test must passively diffuse across the lipid bilayer, whereas bound test is actively transported across it. There is some question as to how the majority of the test actually gets inside the cell to begin with, actively or passively...

But yes I think I was being a little hyperbolic to make a point

 

[Thebigone]

You are comparing intramuscular to sub q correct? You used 140mg and look at the results....could you imagine if you did 300mg sub q and compared apples to apples

Ok yes that true. I though you meant the actual #'s of the 140 subQ blew away the 300 IM in general. The only thing is keep in mind when using the 300 mg my last shot was on a Friday and bloods we're done 72 hours later on a Monday morning. With the subQ I was taking 20 mg every day so it made sense to get the blood test 24 hours after the last shot. So who knows what my results would've been if I got my blood work done 24 hours after the last shot of 100 mg test since I do the 100mg 3x times a week. I think it's too hard to make an exact conclusion unless I do 300 mg subQ(maybe 40mg/day so 280mg) for a few weeks and get another blood test done to compare. Maybe I will do that as my last experiment before I open my own business in the middle of May and I won't have time to do all these blood tests anymore.

Then after I have those two I will know what does of test I want to use per week subQ. I don't want to have insanely high levels al the time but I am a bodybuilder and I train harder than the average person and eat different than the average person so I don't want test levels of the average person for my age (35) I always thought free test is the most important so I figured even if I stayed on the 20 mg SubQ I could just add 25mg Proviron(or low dose Mast)which has virtually has no side effects and would greatly increase my free test even more and I'm not affect things like hemoglobin and the other negative aspects of having too much test aromatizing in your system all the time.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Well all I mean is that "free" and "bound" don't mean "active" and "inactive." In fact, that test that is bound to SHBG may well be MORE active than test that is free. Free test must passively diffuse across the lipid bilayer, whereas bound test is actively transported across it. There is some question as to how the majority of the test actually gets inside the cell to begin with, actively or passively...

But yes I think I was being a little hyperbolic to make a point

In order to maintain androgen concentration at appropriate levels, the production ranges of androgens must be balanced against the rates of metabolic clearance and excretion. This is almost impossible when you injecting mega doses of androgens.

 

[beastmode121]

Free test is pointless, total test is all that matters. SHBG isn't a storage mechanism, it's an active transport mechanism, this has been known since membrane receptors for SHBG have been found about 25 years ago. Unfortunately, most people, including doctors, aren't up to speed.

Is it only free Test that is active in the body?

 

[Landmonster]

You are comparing intramuscular to sub q correct? You used 140mg and look at the results....could you imagine if you did 300mg sub q and compared apples to apples

I was under the impression, from other studies, that IM produced superior results to sub q injections for TRT.

 

[Swifto]

Is it only free Test that is active in the body?

No.

 

[Swifto]

But there is a receptor for SHBG+<sex hormone> on the membrane of the cell (not where the AR is, inside the cell). That receptor grabs SHBG+<sex hormone> and transports it inside the cell to the AR, then SHBG even modifies the transcription that subsequently takes place.

Basically, SHBG is much more complex than once thought. You can learn more about this by researching "SHBG membrane receptor."

I used to have a great link to some good info in this but it is gone with Dat's website going down...

Some good info here:
Sex hormone binding globulin and insulin resistance - Wallace - 2013 - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library

This one?

**broken link removed**

 

[lntense]

3000 is very dangerous, 3000 for long period of time will damage the neurons in the brain.

Do you have studies or anything on that? I would like to learn about that a little further. Neurons/AAS etc..


Also can you do a quick dumbed down version?

 

[emeric delczeg]

Do you have studies or anything on that? I would like to learn about that a little further. Neurons/AAS etc..


Also can you do a quick dumbed down version?

Google this below , also is a other newer study conducted in France.

Elevated Testosterone Kills Nerve Cells

Date:September 27, 2006 Source:Yale University Summary:A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass or for replacement therapy, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells.

 

[emeric delczeg]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25461682

 

[Kaladryn]

This one?

**broken link removed**

That's the one! Thanks Swifto, good find.

 

[Thebigone]

That's the one! Thanks Swifto, good find.

Everyone I know who is on AAS has low shbg including myself. Anything that increases DHT(i.e. Mast/proviron) will lower shbg if I'm correct. Also if test is higher than true trt it will lower it as well as with any other AAS. So the only way to truely increase shbg is a low/normal dose of trt correct. If so that really sucks. It says thyroid meds increase it so maybe adding 25-50mcg T3 may be a good addition.

 

[Swifto]

That's the one! Thanks Swifto, good find.

Thats on my site, one of the few articles I copy and pasted!

 

[Thaistick]

Perhaps kaladryn and others who are familiar with the actual action of shbg need to make a thread with the truth about shbg. I know I'm tired of seeing the wrong information parroted on almost every site. If you do a search on the subject every page in the first page of results shows the incorrect information.