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T3/T4 Supplementation on GH - Hyperthyroidsim & Hair Loss question

epoxy

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I recently started supplementing T3/T4 with my GH, as I was suffering from low energy. I have been on GH for a little over 3 months now + MK-677 and the low energy has not subsided the way I thought it would. Last week I began supplementing Novothyral which is 100mcg T4 + 25mcg T3. Within a WEEK my energy levels feel much better. I am worried about one thing though - hair loss. Do you think this much T3/T4 could be cause for alarm of hyperthyroid symptoms and thus potential hair loss? I just had a hair transplant which is why I am cautious about what I'm using. The GH was part of a program to regrow hair, it has helped with some of my grays and my hair coming back now feels somewhat thicker. I just don't want to over do it on the thyroid meds and end up losing hair elsewhere. Users of T3/T4 on GH, what do you think? In the last week my scalp has also started getting itchy, with some dandruff. Haven't been able to pinpoint the issue.

I know T4 has a 7-10 day half life. If I decide to get bloods to check out my TSH levels, how long should I wait to do bloods to get the highest "active" concentration from the T4?
 
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rmtt

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I would get some tests ran. You could also monitor your resting pulse rate, and get a baseline of your body temperature to compare against.

Thyroid is such a tricky area...so many areas to look at such as TSH, Uptake, Free T4, Free T3, and now RT3.

I have been on thyroid medications since I was a teenager, and I constantly have blood work done.

First doc put me on straight T4.You know the old adage let the body converts what it needs. But there have been so many advances in the study of this area. I was on 300 mcg of T4 for years but still always fatigued.

My current MD says that a lot of doctors don't have experience in these areas and supplements me with a combination T3/T4 prescription, and the dosage hasn't changed in the last 4 years although it did take about of year of playing around with it to get everything where he wanted it to be.

But it took feedback from me as well as sometimes the conventional tests results aren't what you would expect. So he would monitor weight, pulse rate...even asked if I sensed any extra anxiety.

It may not answer your question, but I would feel better finding someone who specializes in this area and seeing them. You don't have to bring up anything else, just find someone who knows all the panels to run, and isn't caught up in the conventional treatment of hypothyroidism.
 

goal245

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25mcg t3 and 100mcg t4 is a pretty low/safe dose and will not produce any side effects. I would wait at least 2 weeks before blood work to see where your THS is at, this is about how long it takes be to see differences from different doses
 

80aum

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I need 200mcg t4 to get mid range on Gh, my t4 was below lowest marker even 100mcg did next to nothing, no pre GH bloods though, i decided to supplement myself.

Maybe you weren't using enough at first, 100mcg t4 and 25mcg t3 they say equals 200mcg t4 at 4-1 ratio.

Never notice hair loss but I am not prone it's possible, you would likely notice shedding if it was there.
 

epoxy

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Thanks for the replies. I'm gonna have bloods done in 2 weeks and see what they say. I didn't think 100mcg T4 +25mcg T3 was that much either, this is my first time using T4, I've only ever supplemented T3 in the past because I wasn't using GH. I have noticed after only a week of T4 supplementation though that I am getting hotter, sweatier in the gym, and have experienced some facial flushing after eating a meal, not totally unlike DNP but to a far lesser degree. Other than that, I just have some unexplainable scalp itching going on over the past 3-4 days, no hair falling out or anything like that. I didn't know what to attribute it to, but it's probably got nothing to do with the T3/T4. On the plus side, my energy levels are *MUCH* better already. I was dragging ass out of bed every morning until a couple of days ago. Bloods will tell me what's going on though.
 

FrancisK

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I recently started supplementing T3/T4 with my GH, as I was suffering from low energy. I have been on GH for a little over 3 months now + MK-677 and the low energy has not subsided the way I thought it would. Last week I began supplementing Novothyral which is 100mcg T4 + 25mcg T3. Within a WEEK my energy levels feel much better. I am worried about one thing though - hair loss. Do you think this much T3/T4 could be cause for alarm of hyperthyroid symptoms and thus potential hair loss? I just had a hair transplant which is why I am cautious about what I'm using. The GH was part of a program to regrow hair, it has helped with some of my grays and my hair coming back now feels somewhat thicker. I just don't want to over do it on the thyroid meds and end up losing hair elsewhere. Users of T3/T4 on GH, what do you think? In the last week my scalp has also started getting itchy, with some dandruff. Haven't been able to pinpoint the issue.

I know T4 has a 7-10 day half life. If I decide to get bloods to check out my TSH levels, how long should I wait to do bloods to get the highest "active" concentration from the T4?

If you're worried about hair loss then obviously you are prone to it, yes 100% you will lose hair with T4/T3, nothing made my hair fall out faster than that shit I went from nobody even noticing I had lost some hair over time unless I pointed it out to pretty much embarrassed as shit because I suddenly had no hair but some waspy strands. My dose was lower than yours and T4 only, also itchy scalp is my very first indication of hair loss then comes the obvious shedding. Everyone is different but this was my experience and I've stayed away from it ever since, luckily most of it came back once I dropped the T4.
 

epoxy

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If you're worried about hair loss then obviously you are prone to it, yes 100% you will lose hair with T4/T3, nothing made my hair fall out faster than that shit I went from nobody even noticing I had lost some hair over time unless I pointed it out to pretty much embarrassed as shit because I suddenly had no hair but some waspy strands. My dose was lower than yours and T4 only, also itchy scalp is my very first indication of hair loss then comes the obvious shedding. Everyone is different but this was my experience and I've stayed away from it ever since, luckily most of it came back once I dropped the T4.
Fuck. Hearing this sucks. Honestly I was excited that my energy levels were back from what they had become on the GH...but hearing this makes me want to just say fuck the T3/T4 altogether.

From what I read though - A normal thyroid gland produces an average of 100 mcg T4 and 6 mcg T3 daily, although it secretes closer to 10 mcg T3 daily, because some T4 to T3 conversion occurs in the thyroid gland before release. Total daily T3 produced by the body averages 30 mcg, but 80% (24 mcg) of this is from conversion in other tissues.
In other words, roughly 25 mcg of t3 will be made by the human body per day and used.

I was hoping that this was more like a replacement dose from the possibility of the GH messing with my thyroid/energy levels. At the very best I was hoping for some additional fat loss from supplementing the t3/t4 at this dose. I guess the only thing I can do is wait and see if it stabilizes. It could potentially cause some initial shedding and then go away. Bloods + time will tell. I don't plan on staying on it forever.
 
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ChemJr.

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1st- why gh and mk? That's going to cause severe lethargy. A friend of mine got so lethargic from 10mg of mk he would sleep half the day and couldn't stand it so he stopped.
2- gh will lower thyroid Hormones if you're on it long enough and have no breaks/ don't cycle it.
3- itchy dandruff scalp is a HUGE problem for me now that they got my t4 dosage right. My thyroid had crashed so bad I almost died from strokes. Extreme hypo. Was loosing hair like crazy. Then got on t4 and now hair loss seems the normal 100 hairs a day like you're supposed to shed or wtvr it is. Hair feels better too. *I would start to take some nascent iodine and see if that helps with the t3/t4. And personally if I were in you're shoes I'd loose the t3 as that stuff is far worse all around in side effects and problems with thyroid meds. More effective for a fast cut but t4 will also do it over enough time with less sides, imho.

Best of luck.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Professional Muscle mobile app
 

epoxy

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1st- why gh and mk? That's going to cause severe lethargy. A friend of mine got so lethargic from 10mg of mk he would sleep half the day and couldn't stand it so he stopped.
2- gh will lower thyroid Hormones if you're on it long enough and have no breaks/ don't cycle it.
3- itchy dandruff scalp is a HUGE problem for me now that they got my t4 dosage right. My thyroid had crashed so bad I almost died from strokes. Extreme hypo. Was loosing hair like crazy. Then got on t4 and now hair loss seems the normal 100 hairs a day like you're supposed to shed or wtvr it is. Hair feels better too. *I would start to take some nascent iodine and see if that helps with the t3/t4. And personally if I were in you're shoes I'd loose the t3 as that stuff is far worse all around in side effects and problems with thyroid meds. More effective for a fast cut but t4 will also do it over enough time with less sides, imho.

Best of luck.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Professional Muscle mobile app
I will look into the iodine. I also purchased a new shampoo to help with itchy/dry scalp called Regenepure DR, will see if that does the trick in any way. I've never had dandruff in my life until about 4 days ago. I used head & shoulders for a couple of days which did the trick for the dandruff but it's a cheap shitty shampoo and my scalp is still itchy.
 

FrancisK

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Fuck. Hearing this sucks. Honestly I was excited that my energy levels were back from what they had become on the GH...but hearing this makes me want to just say fuck the T3/T4 altogether.

From what I read though - A normal thyroid gland produces an average of 100 mcg T4 and 6 mcg T3 daily, although it secretes closer to 10 mcg T3 daily, because some T4 to T3 conversion occurs in the thyroid gland before release. Total daily T3 produced by the body averages 30 mcg, but 80% (24 mcg) of this is from conversion in other tissues.
In other words, roughly 25 mcg of t3 will be made by the human body per day and used.

I was hoping that this was more like a replacement dose from the possibility of the GH messing with my thyroid/energy levels. At the very best I was hoping for some additional fat loss from supplementing the t3/t4 at this dose. I guess the only thing I can do is wait and see if it stabilizes. It could potentially cause some initial shedding and then go away. Bloods + time will tell. I don't plan on staying on it forever.

Trust me I know, I'm on GH and would gladly sacrifice some muscle for the fat loss and energy effects of T4 supplementation. I refuse to go bald from AAS so it's always a battle but I've found a good balance and I've actually had some positive effects on my hair from it. I've found thyroid meds=bald and too much anti estrogen's do it as well but not as quickly. A nizoral 2% shampoo a few times a week, a solid shampoo in between and the use of RU to blunt DHT has worked wonders for my hair even during heavy cycles.

Regenepure is fine it definitely makes your hair LOOK thicker but it also makes your hair look dead so wtf is the point. I stopped using it a long while back, I use a bosley shampoo in between the nizoral use just to have something with some theory behind it even if most of the shit is snake oil. In my opinion the nizoral is the only thing actually proven to deal with DHT at the scalp. I like head and shoulders a lot because it pretty much wipes out body acne for me but from my experience it was bad for my hairline, very harsh with nothing really in it to redeem itself in regards to keeping hair.

The itchy scalp would worry me a lot, if you want to keep your hair drop that T4. Not to mention besides losing most of my hair the T4 fucked my body functions like nothing else did, not tren not DNP not anything like what T4 did it was the first and only time something ever made me come clean to a doctor about AAS use. It is what it is, everything has a consequence in this game you just have to hope your experience in balancing it out comes along before something irreparable does....
 
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epoxy

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Trust me I know, I'm on GH and would gladly sacrifice some muscle for the fat loss and energy effects of T4 supplementation. I refuse to go bald from AAS so it's always a battle but I've found a good balance and I've actually had some positive effects on my hair from it. I've found thyroid meds=bald and too much anti estrogen's do it as well but not as quickly. A nizoral 2% shampoo a few times a week, a solid shampoo in between and the use of RU to blunt DHT has worked wonders for my hair even during heavy cycles.

Regenepure is fine it definitely makes your hair LOOK thicker but it also makes your hair look dead so wtf is the point. I stopped using it a long while back, I use a bosley shampoo in between the nizoral use just to have something with some theory behind it even if most of the shit is snake oil. In my opinion the nizoral is the only thing actually proven to deal with DHT at the scalp. I like head and shoulders a lot because it pretty much wipes out body acne for me but from my experience it was bad for my hairline, very harsh with nothing really in it to redeem itself in regards to keeping hair.

The itchy scalp would worry me a lot, if you want to keep your hair drop that T4. Not to mention besides losing most of my hair the T4 fucked my body functions like nothing else did, not tren not DNP not anything like what T4 did it was the first and only time something ever made me come clean to a doctor about AAS use. It is what it is, everything has a consequence in this game you just have to hope your experience in balancing it out comes along before something irreparable does....
I never really knew this was that serious of a deal. So many people say T4 is pretty essential and helps a lot when using GH, especially with fat loss and energy levels. I haven't really seen many threads about it making people lose their hair, but it seems you've had a pretty shit experience with it.

Hair loss is my biggest concern at this point. Having just had a transplant, I don't want to further exacerbate the issue - which is why I have cut back androgens to a minimum and staying away from whatever I can than would worsen the situation.

I guess I will have to drop the T4. I just wonder how long it will take for my body to re normalize having been on it for over a week now. Probably 2 weeks or so.

I guess I'll drop the T4, wait for things to normalize, and then go have bloods drawn. I was going to do IGF anyway, I can throw in a thyroid panel and see if GH is actually causing any issues. I do get sick of being tired all the time, and it's crazy how the T4 fixed that within a WEEK, but at the expense of potentially losing hair...Fuck that.
 
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goal245

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at the expense of potentially losing hair...Fuck that.
If you're gonna lose hair you'll lose it no matter what, look at how hard Dave Palumbo tries to keep his hair and how silly it looks
 

epoxy

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If you're gonna lose hair you'll lose it no matter what, look at how hard Dave Palumbo tries to keep his hair and how silly it looks
While that's true with AAS usage, it's not the same with other drugs.....Hyper/Hypo symptoms can cause hair loss for people regardless of predisposition to MPB...it even happens in women, all the time. After doing some more research I'm kinda scared to fuck with the thyroid due to that fact.
 

Fa Seeshus

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My hairloss slowed down when I got my levels normalized with t4.

Mk677 will make your tsh levels come back abnormally high btw... More so than tren or gh

Your doc will be confused because you might show normal t4 and t3 levels but have high tsh
 

epoxy

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My hairloss slowed down when I got my levels normalized with t4.

Mk677 will make your tsh levels come back abnormally high btw... More so than tren or gh

Your doc will be confused because you might show normal t4 and t3 levels but have high tsh
I keep learning new things via this thread. Lol. Didn't know that about MK either.

I'm wondering if my itchy scalp will normalize and maybe hair loss won't be an issue at this dosage, or if I shouldn't wait to find out and just drop it. I just don't know how long I should wait to find out to see what happens before making a decision. My scalp has been driving me insane for the last 48 hours itching so bad.
 

TeknoViking

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My hairloss slowed down when I got my levels normalized with t4.

Mk677 will make your tsh levels come back abnormally high btw... More so than tren or gh

Your doc will be confused because you might show normal t4 and t3 levels but have high tsh
Are you saying that mk677 can contribute to hair loss through high tsh levels?
 

epoxy

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Are you saying that mk677 can contribute to hair loss through high tsh levels?
Here's a study I found:

At 8 weeks of MK-677 treatment, mean peak serum TSH concentration was increased (P < 0.05 vs. placebo) although it remained within the normal range.

CONCLUSION: Treatment with the oral GH secretagogue MK-677 transiently increased serum leptin levels and leptin/body fat ratio at 2 weeks of treatment, and increased serum free T3 after 8 weeks. These results indicate that MK-677 treatment is able to affect circulating factors of importance for adipose tissue mass and fuel metabolism.

< 0.05 vs placebo > --- doesn't sound like a big deal.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10468903/

All this being said....I dropped the T4 today to see if the itchy scalp issue goes away. I'm just going to totally let it get out of my system then do some bloods to see what my natty thyroid panel looks like. I should have done that anyway before just throwing T3/T4 in without even LOOKING at my levels.
 
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fitstar

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T3/t4

It is Really confusing to get a real opinion on t3 or t4 ob hgh.

It is a must to add t4 otherwise "useless" i read a milliion Time and since it is quite pricey i do Not want to Not work effectively.
Then i hear that some people cannot convert the t4 so you have to add in t3 while others say t3 is a nogo on hgh.

Is it dose depending??

Thanks
 

cheloz28

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My hairloss slowed down when I got my levels normalized with t4.



Mk677 will make your tsh levels come back abnormally high btw... More so than tren or gh



Your doc will be confused because you might show normal t4 and t3 levels but have high tsh


I always heard that AAS and GH will make your TSH levels come back high ?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

xman280

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I recently started supplementing T3/T4 with my GH, as I was suffering from low energy. I have been on GH for a little over 3 months now + MK-677 and the low energy has not subsided the way I thought it would. Last week I began supplementing Novothyral which is 100mcg T4 + 25mcg T3. Within a WEEK my energy levels feel much better. I am worried about one thing though - hair loss. Do you think this much T3/T4 could be cause for alarm of hyperthyroid symptoms and thus potential hair loss? I just had a hair transplant which is why I am cautious about what I'm using. The GH was part of a program to regrow hair, it has helped with some of my grays and my hair coming back now feels somewhat thicker. I just don't want to over do it on the thyroid meds and end up losing hair elsewhere. Users of T3/T4 on GH, what do you think? In the last week my scalp has also started getting itchy, with some dandruff. Haven't been able to pinpoint the issue.

I know T4 has a 7-10 day half life. If I decide to get bloods to check out my TSH levels, how long should I wait to do bloods to get the highest "active" concentration from the T4?
what kind of hair transplant you got - the one they take thin slices of skin from the side and put it on top ?? I was led to believe that particular type cant make you lose the new hair again , the skin that comes from the side supposedly does not have that many DHT receptors...
 

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