The 'Colorado Experiment' two point oh

[cmryan]

1) just a simple basic metabolic and endocrine panel, e2 went up over 10 points in just two weeks. Enough to warrant that that I'll certainly need the ai throughout the blast if I'm going to raise the dose. Disappointed in any effect proviron/mast was suppose to have on estrogen. At this point my best and likely wrong guess is ments ability to stimulate different receptors causes a secondary mechanism to elevate prolactin and or progesterone. I'll probably test those near mid cycle but I won't have baseline numbers, they shouldn't be elevated as I've been cruising.

I'm not at all certain but it certainly seems like there are secondary pathways that trest stimulates. Otherwise, I do not see how so many guys report estrogen related side effects. Admittedly, that's a poor way to come to a conclusion but it's the best I can do given what I've read.

2) it's only been two weeks and Ive only had two sub maximal workouts so I couldn't tell you it's effects yet but I've been jumping through the roof so my body is clearly quite explosive. I don't feel any signs of bloat. I feel healthy, happy, and explosive unlike while on 19-nors.

Trying to resist jumping on the trest train lol.

3) morning insulin is nice because trig's are at their lowest, the only other time they'd be that low would be post workout and honestly I don't like slin during the workout window as much as "internet gurus" make it out to be epic. Insulin sensitivity and pustule growth factors are already high(er) post workout. Glycogen, growth factors, and muscular carnitine will all stay elevated for many hours so no need to force it in the workout window IMO.

Agreed. So the carnitine and GH pinned am makes sense from that standpoint.

4) I'm going to start out with the 33.3 pre workout three times before ramping up to 50 five times a week. Yes I count TNE in my test total. Max test dose is going to be 700mg up from 100mg.

You've probably already considered this but could the test base be temporarily causing a spike in E2? And since you use it 3x per week it keeps your E2 at a slightly elevated level? I have very little experience with test base or tne but I've read that sometimes guys have used it to help raise crashed E2. I believe I've read that estradiol remains active for 3 days once formed, but I could easily be confusing that with something else.

 

[cmryan]

I am not much for powerlifting BUT you seem to be worth following. Couple questions

Kind of felt like a back handed compliment lol. J/K. IL's log is chock full of great info.

 

[IronLion2]

I am not much for powerlifting BUT you seem to be worth following. Couple questions

Whats the point of masteron and proviron? Dont they do the same thing? Im assuming the idea is to keep you lean and dry right?

If thats the idea why so much GH and insulin? Arent you pretty much going to put on tons of muscle no matter how you lift just from all the anabolics? I figure you must have a really precise diet (i tried reading your diet and couldnt follow it I am a little behind the times.)

Anyway your posts make me want to workout. GL

Masteron and Proviron can be stacked, they have similar mechanism but different pathways so to speak. They work to act as a safeguard against estrogenic side effects from trestolone working as an AI adjunct, hasnt been effective though. It's pretty likely I drop the masteron and just increase the proviron and continue to slightly increase the letro.

Some people think you need carbs with insulin and that you need alot of insulin to work, neither are actually true. I use a moderate dose of GH and tiny dose of insulin to increase anabolic pathways such as the IGF's but without changing my diet much I wont see a major increase in weight and the increase I do see should be almost no fat gain.

I use insulin as a tool to keep my pancreas from becoming burdened by my life style and as a limitator by regulating much shit I eat, when you run regular insulin it's a real motivator to stay precise with your diet

I'm not at all certain but it certainly seems like there are secondary pathways that trest stimulates. Otherwise, I do not see how so many guys report estrogen related side effects. Admittedly, that's a poor way to come to a conclusion but it's the best I can do given what I've read.
Trying to resist jumping on the trest train lol.
Agreed. So the carnitine and GH pinned am makes sense from that standpoint.

You've probably already considered this but could the test base be temporarily causing a spike in E2? And since you use it 3x per week it keeps your E2 at a slightly elevated level? I have very little experience with test base or tne but I've read that sometimes guys have used it to help raise crashed E2. I believe I've read that estradiol remains active for 3 days once formed, but I could easily be confusing that with something else.

Haven't added anything in that time frame other than 75mg/w trestE and 350mg/w proviron. I only order bloods to confirm if my sodium was still tanked from telmisartan. IIRC it was only an increase of 10ish points so theres room for error in there but I'm already at the high end of the range before I even up the test let alone the trest.

 

[IronLion2]

Mx squat (went like shit)
Glute Ham
Reverse Hyper
Belt Extension
Box Squat w/ high box 135x5,225x5,315x3,375x5
Good Morning 225x12
Hack Squat 360x10,450x10

So by first week testing my squat form needs work so this is going to be a squat block I suppose.

Weights up five pounds with no change in diet. TNE and full dose of ment this week then increase to long ester test and mast the following week. From there the gh and slin will increase. So we're a month shy of this in full blast.

I haven't found my sweet spot with L-car yet, still looking for ways to evaluate how the Amino protocol is working.

 

[IronLion2]

I'm back bitch.

GPP
Heavy Bag :60 X 5
Bear Crawls 100m X 10
Walk 1.5 Miles

Dx Lower
Mobility Circut
Hatfield Squat (tempo) 135x5,225x5,315x5,375x3
Deficit SLDL (speed) 135x3,225x3,315x3,375x3
Leg Pres 3x10 (rest pause)
Leg Curl 3x10 (rest pause)
Reverse Crunch 1x20+
Back Squat 1x20+ (My form was so bad I loaded the bar with 95lbs and just worked on my hip hinge and wedge)

Really not too shabby for my first week, lifting with metaphoric training wheels, lifting 100% raw, and doing it on a deficit of around 600kcals. Im still debating how to add in the hormones bc I want to do it slowly to milk some slow gains, this is going to be a long block. Thinking of changing to

Week 1-4
250 Test Base + Prop
100 Mast Prop
100 Ment Enth
14iu Growth

Week 4-8
500 Test Base + Test Prop
200 Mast Enth
100 Ment Enth
25iu Growth
75iu Insulin

Week 8-20
750 Test Enth + Test Base + Test Prop
300 Mast Enth
150 Ment Enth
25iu Growth
150iu Insulin

I think with my new work/class schedule i'm going to go high protien/ mod fat solid foot in the day and then all shakes for high pro/mod carb at night for the workout. Also deciding when I go to really put weight on im going to carb load on my off days rather than post workout. Again trigs and blood sugar will be lower that way.

Been noticing a change in my sweating and warmness after my amino injections. No side effects from this stack, BP at 125/80 and resting heart rate at 71. Kcals still hoving at 1600-2200kcal a day with one light refeed day every 6-12 days.

 

[IronLion2]

First TNE dose for mx effort today 25/25 base/prop with 50 mast prop 5x.

Max Effort Squat
Westside Circut; 1x25
Low Box Squat; 135x3,225x3,315x3,405x8
Split Stance Squat w/ SSB into Pins; 185x12;135x8
Good Morning w/ SSB into Pins; 225x12

Those squats were objectively better and felt much easier, high box squats are for fat guys and teach me bad cues, I need the low box to sink into my hips and hinge. Again those were for maybe 70%ish at most so we're still leaving a lot of intensity and volume in the tank.

Seeing subtle changes to my physique while weight stays the same which is what we were attempting to do so good signs.

 

[cmryan]

First TNE dose for mx effort today 25/25 base/prop with 50 mast prop 5x.

Max Effort Squat
Westside Circut; 1x25
Low Box Squat; 135x3,225x3,315x3,405x8
Split Stance Squat w/ SSB into Pins; 185x12;135x8
Good Morning w/ SSB into Pins; 225x12

Those squats were objectively better and felt much easier, high box squats are for fat guys and teach me bad cues, I need the low box to sink into my hips and hinge. Again those were for maybe 70%ish at most so we're still leaving a lot of intensity and volume in the tank.

I don't care for high box squats either for the same reason. Just reinforces lousy positioning. I always preferred parallel depth box squats. Do you go to parallel or slightly below for your low box squats?

What do you prop your rear foot on for split squats. I'm always interested to hear what people use for that setup. A regular bench usually feels a little off for me. Probably a combo of height and lack of hip flexibility.

You're good mornings are "deadstop" type? Essentially just pause at the pins? I need to invest in an SSB. My old gym had one and they were outstanding for a number of lifts. Which brand do you use at your gym?

Seeing subtle changes to my physique while weight stays the same which is what we were attempting to do so good signs.

Outstanding![/QUOTE]

 

[IronLion2]

I don't care for high box squats either for the same reason. Just reinforces lousy positioning. I always preferred parallel depth box squats. Do you go to parallel or slightly below for your low box squats?

What do you prop your rear foot on for split squats. I'm always interested to hear what people use for that setup. A regular bench usually feels a little off for me. Probably a combo of height and lack of hip flexibility.

You're good mornings are "deadstop" type? Essentially just pause at the pins? I need to invest in an SSB. My old gym had one and they were outstanding for a number of lifts. Which brand do you use at your gym?

Outstanding!

[/QUOTE]

My partners high box squat as they're mostly heavy weights and their center of mass is much higher, I only added it since I haven't squated in so long but it's not coming back this block. I low bar squat down to about 80 degrees and high and front squat close to 45. Ive only recently developed the mobility to squat that low, helps I'm much leaner.

Those split squats weren't with an elevated front or back heel. With split squats there's a million ways to load, I essentially do them different every time. Those were more traditional split squats with an SSB rather than the more popular Bulgarian split squat. I also do zechers, front rack, snatch hold, etc.

Yes, with pins the good mornings are dead stop but unlike other pulls from pins, once the bar rests on the pins it should be the peak contraction on the upper glutes / lumbar. Its much easier to keep the tension in the hips once the bar hits the pins with the SSB.

 

[IronLion2]

Once again I decided to change it up, sue me. 50 TNE + 50 TestP 5x, 100 ment and 150 mast split into two doses. The test will increase by going from 500 to 700 to 900 will keeping the trest steady for now.

Mx Effort Bench
RPR + Mobility
Cable Face Pull x25
Cable Pull Over x25
Cable Pull Down x25
Wide Grip Bench w/ Block 225x3,315x3,365x3,405x4
Cable Row 120x10, 205x10; 160x10
Fly 60x16

50 tne so much better than 25, will wait for a while before doing 75 and 100.

It's starting to get hard to pace myself bc I know I can do more. Really wanted to do 425 for a double but still trying to keep it smooth for now. No PRs for me until I get my new power gear. I got a power suit, bench shirt, and briefs. Once those arrive im going to bring the frequency and intensity up to where they could be.

 

[cmryan]

Once again I decided to change it up, sue me.

It's just experimenting lol. I'm enjoying reading your progressions.

Mx Effort Bench
RPR + Mobility
Cable Face Pull x25
Cable Pull Over x25
Cable Pull Down x25
Wide Grip Bench w/ Block 225x3,315x3,365x3,405x4
Cable Row 120x10, 205x10; 160x10
Fly 60x16

Is there a certain amount of volume of horizontal pulls you try to match to horizontal pushes? Or just ensure you get some solid work in for that plane of movement?

50 tne so much better than 25, will wait for a while before doing 75 and 100.

Are there any other PWO injectables you've ever used or intend to try? I gotta admit, reading your posts really makes me wanna try to fit TNE into 2 sessions a week. I've only used it handful of times but each time it was energy in a bottle. Almost like the perfect amount of stims if such a thing existed.

It's starting to get hard to pace myself bc I know I can do more. Really wanted to do 425 for a double but still trying to keep it smooth for now. No PRs for me until I get my new power gear. I got a power suit, bench shirt, and briefs. Once those arrive im going to bring the frequency and intensity up to where they could be.

Outstanding man. PR's are coming!

 

[IronLion2]

It's just experimenting lol. I'm enjoying reading your progressions.

Is there a certain amount of volume of horizontal pulls you try to match to horizontal pushes? Or just ensure you get some solid work in for that plane of movement?

Are there any other PWO injectables you've ever used or intend to try? I gotta admit, reading your posts really makes me wanna try to fit TNE into 2 sessions a week. I've only used it handful of times but each time it was energy in a bottle. Almost like the perfect amount of stims if such a thing existed.

Outstanding man. PR's are coming!

1) no ratios, I bench so well I don't need much extra push work do it's mostly pulling accessories.
2) tren no ester + mtren will be next, I loved var + bol + drol

 

[IronLion2]

Change in my schedule so we've adjusted per normal. GPP days are gone and we're going to do GPP before Dx and after Mx. New "condensed" training is made possible by stupid endurance from trest, at first I thought it was because my volume was down but I just dont tire as easy now. Ive been walking out of the gym with too much gas in the tank still so I fixed that.

Max Effort Bench
Physiotherapy ///
Rack Chin x50
Pull Over x50
Pull Down x50
Wide Grip Bench 2x2
Supported Row 2x8
Weighted Fly 1x12
Weighted Carry ///

Dynamic Effort Upper
Physiotherapy ///
Plyometric ///
Cross Squat x50
Close Stance Squat 5x5
Close Stance Deadlift 5x5
Leg Curl 1x25
Leg Press 1x25
Core/Hips 1x25

Max Effort Deadlift
Physiotherapy ///
Snatch x50
Standing Row x50
Hybrid Deadlift x50
Wide Stance Deadlift 1x3
Weighted Pull Up 2x8
Weighted Push Up 1x12
Weighted Swing ///

Dynamic Effort Upper
Physiotherapy ///
Isometric ///
Plate Raise x50
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Overhead Pull 1x25
Supported Pull 1x25
Supported Curl 1x25

Max Effort Squat
Physiotherapy
Belt Extension x50
Butt Extension x50
Back Extension x50
Wide Stance Squat 1x5
Split Stance Squat 2x8
Hip Extension 1x12
Prowler Drag ///

x25=Cluster set of fives
2x8=Widow Maker
1x25=Rest Pause
///=GPP so daily auto-regulated volume

Diet still
Regular 100/250/100 - 2300kcal
Refeed 500/100/50 - 2800kcal

My Na/K finally settled down and I look and feel much better. Increased GH from 2iu AM to 2.5iu AM and added E/C/Y back in. Will likely post pictures before I bring in the insulin, likely 2-4 weeks from that.

 

[IronLion2]

Max Effort Deadlift
Pendlay KB Row
140 X 50
Wide Stance KB Pull w/ Deficit & Pause
140 x 50
Wide Stance BB Pull w/ Hook Grip
245 X 3,335 X 3,425 X 3,515 X 3, 565 X 2
Weighted Chin
30 X 4, 20 X 4, 10 X 4, BW X 4
Weighted Dip -
40 X 8, 20 X 8
Weighted Sled -
35 X 400m

Had a full load day with a light insulin dose, 5iu twice with around 600/200/100, should result in minor spill over but I felt like ass and I was about to skull fuck someones face in so I needed a little chill in my system. Carbs turn me down and I need that from time to time.

 

[IronLion2]

First three day in a row lift in a long time

Saturday
External Rotation w/ Plates
25 X 100
Internal Rotation w/ Plates
25 x 100
Incline Chest Press
80 X 5, 90 X 5, 100 X 5, 110 X 5, 115 X 5
Snatch Press
135 X 3, 155 X 3, 185 X 3, 225 X 3
Overhead Extension
185 X 20, 155 X 20

Sunday
Hip Pull w/ Band
30 X 100
Hip Pull w/ Kettlebell
64 X 100
Wide Stance Squat f/ Speed
135 X 3, 225 X 3, 315 X 3, 405 X 3, 475 x 3
Split Stance Squat
225 X 12, 185 X 8
Hyper Extension
270 X 50
Ankle Extension
90 X 50
Hip Extension
90 X 50

Workouts are becoming more consolidated which will allow for more volume for each life. I always do this after the first two weeks of a block, throw some stuff on a target see what sticks then repeat. Been doing a lot of Donnie Thompsons accessory recommendations, funny enough being a hybrid lifter means im MUCH more muscular than most PL's so i'm actually stiffer than most so I lift more like a super heavy weight than a light heavy weight.

 

[IronLion2]

Already up to 210 this AM.

Dx Lower
Hanging Plank - 5x10
Hanging Twist - 5x10
Pitt Shark Snatch Pull - 5x5
Pitt Shark Sumo Squat - 5x5
Leg Curl - 5x10
Leg Press - 5x10

This in my mind was my first full volume workout. Feels good man.

 

[cmryan]

Already up to 210 this AM.

Dx Lower
Hanging Plank - 5x10
Hanging Twist - 5x10
Pitt Shark Snatch Pull - 5x5
Pitt Shark Sumo Squat - 5x5
Leg Curl - 5x10
Leg Press - 5x10

This in my mind was my first full volume workout. Feels good man.

Awesome man! Damn I wish my gym had a belt squat setup. I know we can use some types of substitutes but they seem pretty darn inferior and not nearly as versatile as the machines themselves.

 

[IronLion2]

Awesome man! Damn I wish my gym had a belt squat setup. I know we can use some types of substitutes but they seem pretty darn inferior and not nearly as versatile as the machines themselves.

I wont lie, it's nice to be able to do a psuedo de-load whenever my joints feel taxed.

Speaking of joints, I threw out my letro, like threw it in the toilet, I ALWAYS over do the AI. My joints are already trashed. Going to up the ralox and proviron in it's place.

 

[cmryan]

I wont lie, it's nice to be able to do a psuedo de-load whenever my joints feel taxed.

Speaking of joints, I threw out my letro, like threw it in the toilet, I ALWAYS over do the AI. My joints are already trashed. Going to up the ralox and proviron in it's place.

Without knowing your personal response, I definitely think you’re making the better choice. Letro is just asking for trouble in my experience. It’s so damn potent.

 

[IronLion2]

Weight fell below 210, looking like a freak after just two days without the letro and more proviron, only 75mg a day has me looking like race horse.

Still underweight, still lifting raw, still making progress.

Mx Bench
Strap Pull Over x50
Strap Pull Up x50
Strap Push Up x50
Strap Plank x50
Bench Press w/ Pins (start from bottom)
135x5,225x3,315x3,375x4
Seal Row w/ Chains
115x5,135x5,155x5,185x5
Supported Fly
65x12,50x8
Supported Curl
50x12,40x8
Weighted Chest Isohold


Those pin press from the bottom are fucking hard dude, it takes the majority of your chest out of the lift and forces the back and triceps to stabilize. It's crazy that I cannot for the life of me get tired at the gym.

 

[cmryan]

Weight fell below 210, looking like a freak after just two days without the letro and more proviron, only 75mg a day has me looking like race horse.

That's outstanding man! Wouldn't have guessed it would produce a change so quickly.

Still underweight, still lifting raw, still making progress.

Mx Bench
Strap Pull Over x50
Strap Pull Up x50
Strap Push Up x50
Strap Plank x50
Bench Press w/ Pins (start from bottom)
135x5,225x3,315x3,375x4
Seal Row w/ Chains
115x5,135x5,155x5,185x5
Supported Fly
65x12,50x8
Supported Curl
50x12,40x8
Weighted Chest Isohold


Those pin press from the bottom are fucking hard dude, it takes the majority of your chest out of the lift and forces the back and triceps to stabilize. It's crazy that I cannot for the life of me get tired at the gym.

Pin presses are the bomb. I've found nothing has done more for my bench than pin presses. Trest and TNE are nutso right!