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The simplest way to stay huge/get cut?

BALDNAZI

FOUNDING Member / Featured Member/ Kilo Klub
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After doing my full body workouts for a few months and then switching to IRONMAN's routine for the past few weeks Im in the mid 250s and fucking jacked.Im very happy with how I look mass wise and my strength is through the roof.The stares in the gym and the "what the fuck are you on?" comments confirm the situation.

Now,the downside.Im relatively lean everywhere,but from all the eating Im getting a fucking pot belly.I have 2 rows of abs(not deep) and then the bottom row is covered in fat.This has got to go.

My question is,how the hell do I eliminate the gut while staying as huge and full as possible?There has to be a way.Every year I do my usual starchy carb elimination,I lose most of the fat but lose alot of muscle,whether I am on gear or not.And I get FLAT,my muscles just dont pop.

I do not want to hear about ratios,and measurements of food or anything like that.Im not competing,I just want to look sick for the summer.I do not need to be 6% bodyfat.I want this thread to be about the absolute simplest,and easiest to follow method for getting lean while staying huge.I have a couple months to go before beach weather,what do you guys suggest?

Remember,my main concern is staying huge,just getting lean enough so that the bottom row of abs pops in.
 
You could try lipostabil. I havent used it but there is alot of positive feedback on animals board
 
I feel your pain man....Its gonna come down to trail and error for ya. The best for me was working out first thing in the morning(training 5 days a week very similar to Iron Mans plan just spread out) and then I was eating carbs until about 1-2pm and none after that. Red meats during the day and fish at night (made a big difference) I also consumed alot of healhty fats in the afternoon and would snack on macedamia nuts. Carbs in the early part of the day came from fruits, oatmeal and sweet potatoes. Veggies and olive oil in other meals. Then at night I was walking for about 45 minutes. Low impact cardio also started making difference. Was taking minimal gear and then start GH at 3ius EOD. Then it all started coming together. At first I felt that flat you are talking about. Fixed it a bit with some more fats and having a later carb cutt off time....but once I started the GH (taken at bedtime) and the walks at night. I would wake up dry and hard(had been dieting for about 4-5 weeks at this point) But I wouldn't stay like that after a few meals. After a while I just kept looking like that more often. Oh also - after about a week of eating how I was sometimes 10 days I would have a nice cheat day and I would go to bed a little bloated but would wake up vascular and very hard. Eventually 9-10%bf was just normal and I could maintain by eating clean. I lost some of the hardness when I came of the gear, but I was still picking up mad pussy. I'm 5'9 at 218lbs....

Good luck...
 
BALDNAZI said:
After doing my full body workouts for a few months and then switching to IRONMAN's routine for the past few weeks Im in the mid 250s and fucking jacked.Im very happy with how I look mass wise and my strength is through the roof.The stares in the gym and the "what the fuck are you on?" comments confirm the situation.

Now,the downside.Im relatively lean everywhere,but from all the eating Im getting a fucking pot belly.I have 2 rows of abs(not deep) and then the bottom row is covered in fat.This has got to go.

My question is,how the hell do I eliminate the gut while staying as huge and full as possible?There has to be a way.Every year I do my usual starchy carb elimination,I lose most of the fat but lose alot of muscle,whether I am on gear or not.And I get FLAT,my muscles just dont pop.

I do not want to hear about ratios,and measurements of food or anything like that.Im not competing,I just want to look sick for the summer.I do not need to be 6% bodyfat.I want this thread to be about the absolute simplest,and easiest to follow method for getting lean while staying huge.I have a couple months to go before beach weather,what do you guys suggest?

Remember,my main concern is staying huge,just getting lean enough so that the bottom row of abs pops in.


Winstrol always seems to make my lower abs come in like nothing else.
 
We seem to think very similarly, BN. I like to be defined and see my muscles, but I don't need to be in contest condition. I FUCKIN' HATE losing my hard earned mass with dieting and cardio, so I quit that shit. What I have found works for me is very simple. Here's what I've been doing and it's working nicely. We're about the same size, so I suppose the same amounts would work for you.

Meal 1: 3 scoops muscle milk with one scoop (same scoop as muscle milk) of oats.

Meal two: Around a pound of some type of lean meat and some type of carbs

Workout: While working out I drink 50 of whey with 30 gr sugar and 5 gr creatine

Meal Four: Same as 1

Meal 5: Same as 2

Meal 6: 50 Grams of whey and metamucil.

I also constantly alternate clen 2 weeks on and 2 off. I also take ephedrine/caffiene before each workout.

That's about it. My bodyfat has fallen pretty dramatically over the last two months doing this and it isn't hard for me at all. Plus, I've gained some muscle.
 
Well the simplest thing for me was just to keep lifting heavy and watch carbs.Lowering carbs on none training days very low and drinking and extra protien shake to make up for those calories.
 
well it aint rocket science but I up all my shit and clean up the diet a little bit.
 
Carb cycling does wonders for me in conjuction with higher fats on the lower carb days....throw in a low dose of T3 and your favorite anabolic and presto. If you want anymore info, PM me and I can show you the diet I used. Its about 99% diet manipulation and nothing more.
 
I do not believe that while eating massive amounts of food you can keep a flat stomach. Just not happening. I tried eating massive amounts of food and i ALWAYS have a flat stomach.. guess what.... not when i was eatin a ton. I think the food stretches out your stomach/intestines and cuases a pot belly. You might have ripped abs, but your stomach will still stick out. I learned that going every other meal shakes helped alot. Still not an expert on this just my two cents
 
You want simple?
Here are 2 methods that work.

1. Cut calories by 250. Cut from any source you would like(anything that is considered poor quality). Keep it for 2 wks and evaulate. If you have not lost any fat then cut another 250.

2. Incorporate HIIT. Use a method like Afterburn this is muscle sparing but do not do it on an empty stomach.

If you do it slow enough you should not have much of a problem.

RC
 
RazorCuts said:
You want simple?
Here are 2 methods that work.

1. Cut calories by 250. Cut from any source you would like(anything that is considered poor quality). Keep it for 2 wks and evaulate. If you have not lost any fat then cut another 250.

2. Incorporate HIIT. Use a method like Afterburn this is muscle sparing but do not do it on an empty stomach.

If you do it slow enough you should not have much of a problem.

RC


Sorry brother, but I am not familiar with the HIIT acronym. Can you define?
 
Kaiser said:
Sorry brother, but I am not familiar with the HIIT acronym. Can you define?

Here is an example:


AFTERBURN

Energy System Training For Fat Loss – by Alwyn Cosgrove

The difference between cardio training and aerobic training



This is important to understand. Cardio refers to any exercise in which the heart and lungs are involved. This could be jogging, running, sprinting, swimming, circuit training etc. Quite simply – if you are elevating your heart rate and respiration rate, you are doing some form of cardiovascular work.
Aerobic training refers to a state in which the cardiovascular work is performed. Aerobic literally means ‘with oxygen’. It is a relatively low intensity state of exercise that can be maintained almost indefinitely (as long as oxygen is being supplied to the working muscles, in the required amounts – the exercise can be continued. This is aerobic training.
All aerobic training is cardiovascular training. Not all cardiovascular training is aerobic. Hopefully that makes sense.


Steady State Aerobics – why it hasn’t worked



Let’s think of all the reasons steady state aerobic training is supposed to burn fat.

1) It burns calories. Good. I’ll buy that. How does it burn calories? Because the muscles are hard at work and demand extra oxygen to help them continue working. Hmmm. There are a ton of activities such as weight training, sprinting, sleeping, talking watching TV that ALSO burn calories by requiring work from the muscles. So no extra points for aerobic training.

2) The fat burning zone. Nope. Sorry – it doesn’t exist. The fat burning zone is a concept that the body burns a greater amount of fat at lower intensity aerobic exercise than it does at higher intensities. This is a misinterpretation. It’s true that the body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities, but taking this to its logical conclusion – the body will burn a greater amount of fat as a percentage lying on the couch than doing anything else right? And we know how good lying on the couch works for fat loss. It’s the “as a percentage” line. At lower intensities the body may burn 50% of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35% of calories from fat. BUT at higher intensities you burn way more total calories, and more fat calories overall than you do at lower intensities. Think about a real world example – are sprinters (running 10-20s) fatter than marathon runners (2-2.5 hours of running). No. Actually sprinters carry less body fat than distance runners due to their muscle mass.


3) Aerobics makes your body an “efficient fat burning machine”. True but this isn’t a desirable response. The ONLY tissue that burns fat in the body is muscle. Yes – aerobic training does demand work from the muscles, but not as much as other activities. Aerobic training doesn’t require the muscle tissue to stay around either. Aerobic training makes muscles more efficient at using fat (don’t get excited – if your car became more efficient at burning gas – you’d be using less of it).
So if muscle is the only tissue that burns fat, and aerobic training makes it smaller and more efficient at burning fat, then essentially you are creating a smaller, more efficient fat burning machine. That’s not effective.


4) Aerobic training raises your metabolism. I’ll cover this in more detail later but the short answer is no it doesn’t. Metabolism is largely a function of how much muscle you carry. As aerobics does nothing to even maintain muscle, never mind build muscle, it will do nothing to contribute to raising your metabolism at rest. Sure, you’ll burn calories while you’re doing it, but will you burn any more at rest as a result of doing aerobics? No. And as you’ll find out later, you may actually burn less.


The adaptation conundrum



The body literally adapts to anything we attempt to do by responding in the reverse manner. Don’t drink any water? Your body tries to retain water. Does weight training build muscle? No it doesn’t. What actually occurs is a breakdown of muscle tissue and the body ADAPTS by building muscle.
So if you burn a ton of calories doing aerobic training, that same body adapts to aerobic exercise by slowing your metabolism and allowing your body to store more fat. Same body – same system.
The biggest problem with aerobic training is that you get better at it. In weight training, as you get better, you add more weight or more reps and there is literally no finish line. In aerobic training, the work required to run 5 miles will become less and less as you get fitter. So to continue to improve you either go further (do more work for the same amount of calories) or you run it faster. Going further kind of defeats the purpose. Is there much joy in running 40 mins to burn the calories you once burned in 30 mins? And going faster involves the same problem. Eventually, the new speed becomes too easy for you and you have to go more intense to get the same benefits. Now as I mentioned, there is no end point with weight training. However there is an end point with aerobic training. You will reach an intensity eventually that will be the end of the aerobic zone. Quite simply going any harder will send your body into the anaerobic zone. So at some point you’re not doing aerobics any more. So, if you have to stop doing it at some point to get the benefits you seek why not do anaerobic work to begin with?

Metabolism

Your metabolism or your metabolic rate is what determines how many calories you burn each day – or more importantly for the purposes of this book – how many you need to maintain your current weight. Your metabolism is quite simply how many calories you burn in a typical day. It is affected and controlled by your thyroid, and is largely a factor of your muscle mass. To break it down further – every pound of muscle you put on requires approximately 50 calories per day to maintain. This doesn’t take into account the calories burned in training to develop that muscle, or the calories burned in training to keep that muscle – these 50 calories are just the amount needed by that muscle to just sit there.
So, one pound of muscle on your body requires approximately 50 calories per day. This equates to 18,250 calories per year or the equivalent of a little over 5lbs of fat. So you can see that gaining and maintaining even five pounds of muscle in your training program, will assist in burning off over 26lbs of fat over the coming year.
SO in order to really get the athletic look we want to develop, the key is not just how many calories we can burn during exercise, it’s how many calories we can force the body to burn all the time. Raising your metabolism is the real key in long term fat loss and physique change.




Caloric expenditure



In order to lose body fat, you must burn off more calories than you consume. Despite the proliferation of diets- low carbohydrate, low fat, high protein, high carbohydrate etc this simple rule remains. I don’t want to talk about nutrition here as this is more than adequately covered in another chapter in this book, but suffice to say the caloric balance is still important.
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard people say “I barely eat anything – I eat like a bird and I still gain weight”. Oh really. You are eating fewer calories than you need and your body is gaining weight? Impossible. This violates the law of thermodynamics. Usually it’s a case of not really being aware of how much you are actually eating. Because let’s face it – if your body was capable of producing body weight from nothing, then we better get you sent over to NASA or UNICEF immediately – with magical genes like yours, we might just be able to solve the Third World’s hunger problem.
Fat loss is all about caloric expenditure. We must burn more calories than we take in, and the real key to doing this, as mentioned before, is not aerobic training, which will burn calories while you are doing it, its anaerobic training, which burns calories while you are doing it AND increases the calories burned for hours afterwards. In the case of weight training, if we build muscle and keep it, that burns calories forever more. Even when you sleep!

The key with anaerobic training is what is known as EPOC. Anaerobic exercise burns a ton of calories while you are performing it. However, the metabolism remains elevated following this type exercise. This was, at one time, referred to as the oxygen debt, but is now referred to as the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC). The recovery of the metabolic rate back to pre-exercise levels can require several minutes for light exercise (aerobic training), several hours for very heavy exercise (anaerobic cardio training), and up to 12 to 24 hours or even longer for prolonged, exhaustive exercise (interval training or circuit weight training).

The EPOC can add up to a substantial energy expenditure when totaled over the entire period of recovery. If the oxygen consumption following exercise remains elevated by an average of only 50 ml/min or 0.05 liter/min, this will amount to approximately 0.25 kcal/min or 15 kcal/hr. If the metabolism remains elevated for five hours, this would amount to an additional expenditure of 75 kcal that would not normally be included in the calculated total energy expenditure for that particular activity. This major source of energy expenditure, which occurs during recovery, but is directly the result of the exercise bout, is frequently ignored in most calculations of the energy cost of various activities. If the individual in this example exercised five days per week, he or she would have expended 375 kcal, or lost the equivalent of approximately 0.1 pounds of fat in one week, or 1.0 pounds in 10 weeks, just from the additional caloric expenditure during the recovery period alone. This is the key to maximizing the return on your exercise investment.
The next obvious idea is – if you trained the next day while your metabolism is still elevated, will we have an even higher return – is the effect accumulative? Is the whole greater than the sum of the parts?
Science has yet to give us an answer, however in the real world, I think so. I have seen amazing results with my clients using this exact protocol.



Interval training



So is there a better way of performing cardio workouts to prevent these adaptations, and rapidly improve fat loss results? Yes. The key is to perform what is known as interval training.

Interval training simply refers to a series of intense activity separated with short rest periods. Through using interval training you are able to exercise at a higher intensity without getting tired. In other words – because we alternate the periods of high intensity work, with periods of lower intensity work – you are able to do much more work in the same time period than you were before.

The beauty of this is as you improve, the work intervals can get harder and harder, and the recovery intervals can be shortened, or performed at a higher speed. In fact, there is no end in site, and no downside to interval training (other than it is really hard).



The AFTERBURN ENERGY SYSTEM Routine



This can be performed using any cardiovascular machine, and I suggest that you use them all. Multi-mode cardio (where you change the machine or type of activity regularly) has been shown in the research to be another more effective factor. So as a general guideline, don’t use the same cardio machine two workouts in a row.

The Routine:

Warm up for five minutes

Round: Perform 1 minute as fast as you can (a level 9 or 10 intensity – on a scale of 1-10).
Recover at a moderate pace for two minutes (a level 6-7 intensity).
That’s one “round” – and it lasts three minutes

Cool down for five minutes


Now alongside the weight training and nutrition program included in this e-book – I also want you to perform the Afterburn Energy System Routine several times each week. These workouts can be done after your weight training workouts, later the same day or on separate days. What I don’t want you to do is to perform these routines BEFORE weight training. This will reduce the effectiveness of your program.

· Weeks One to Four: Perform three rounds, three times per week.
The total cardio time will be 19 mins per workout including warm up and cool down.

· Weeks Five to Eight: Perform four rounds, four times per week.
The total cardio time will be 22 mins per workout including warm up and cool down.

· Weeks Nine to Twelve: Perform five rounds, four times per week.
The total cardio time will be 25 mins per workout including warm up and cool down.

· Weeks Thirteen to Sixteen: Perform six rounds, five times per week.
The total cardio time will be 28 mins per workout including warm up and cool down.


This type of cardio training performed as prescribed, typically results in a 1-2lb fat loss per week. So over a sixteen week period, depending on your dedication to nutrition, supplementation and your weight training routine, we are looking at a possible loss of at least 16-30 plus lbs of fat.
 
Why is everyone recommending dugs for this solution when it can be accomplished with diet and training first.

If you cut most of the processed carbs on non taring days some fat loss should be apparen twith just that change.
I dont know if Baldnazi wanted to do cardio, but the HIIT method what RC desribed just a few time a week for just 15 minutes should work great with the small diet adjustment.
 
dragonfire101 said:
Why is everyone recommending dugs for this solution when it can be accomplished with diet and training first.

Probably because Diet and HIIT are a lot tougher to adhere to. Just between these to methods most are naturals i deal with hang on to most of thier muscle and have low bodyfat with no drugs at all.

RC
 
Hey BaldNazi,
I will recommend HIIT cardio. It will get your metabolism jacked up. Try some heavy bag punching. I do this even when bulking for I hate having a big gut and this for mof cardio done the proper way with the right recuperation and at the right time of the day can work great. I was able to shed most of my gut ( while bulking) with this . It also does it in afairly short period of time. Not to mention , it really developed your strength and works the core muscles.

Ok some may say it burns muscle but doing HIIT allows your metabolism to go into high gear. As for the gear , Im no expert there so doing HIIT is one of the solutions. Some other guys here can tell you what gear you can use to help along with the cardio.

As for nutrition, I continue to eat fairly high calories. Dont drop the cals too much because I hate to lost any size. Keep the protien high and also take your glutamine. Make sure you get a big PW shake right after HIIT.
To know if you did a good HIIT workout, you should be sweating bucket loads for 15 mins after . :D
its tough but it works.

N.
 

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