There's no such thing as Overtranning. Just under eating. My experiment.

[ajdos]

When you say your results have been good do you mean you've gained more muscle? And if so have you also increased your doses or are they the same?

I'm interested because as mentioned I have never experienced long term gains from anything besides gaining strength, but for longevity purposes would love to find a way to do so, other than by just increasing my AAS doses.

Well I had to do different things, I could still train heavy on back and legs, chest and shoulders I had to improvise, so I ended up with two back days and doing a lot more extra arm work, volume, but small weights.
I put about 1/2-3/4 of an inch on my arms, they looked retarded.
I had a heavy back day with deads/or heavy rows, then one with machines and rep ranges that were high with more controlled squezing.
And no, my dose didnt increase...what gets me about that up your dose horseshit is, that only works if you add in more food, which has to be done FIRST.
What take more AAS and not have the material for your body to utilize in order to manufacture new structural proteins?
I mean who ever came up with such bullshit ought to be slapped, then its all the well such and such pro takes x amount and look at him, yeah geniuses HES A FUCKING PRO-with pro genetics.
The rest of us have to eat, and eat and eat, despite what the IF'ers say.
Sorry for the rant but the upping of the dose thing really strikes a nerver with me.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Well I had to do different things, I could still train heavy on back and legs, chest and shoulders I had to improvise, so I ended up with two back days and doing a lot more extra arm work, volume, but small weights.
I put about 1/2-3/4 of an inch on my arms, they looked retarded.
I had a heavy back day with deads/or heavy rows, then one with machines and rep ranges that were high with more controlled squezing.
And no, my dose didnt increase...what gets me about that up your dose horseshit is, that only works if you add in more food, which has to be done FIRST.
What take more AAS and not have the material for your body to utilize in order to manufacture new structural proteins?
I mean who ever came up with such bullshit ought to be slapped, then its all the well such and such pro takes x amount and look at him, yeah geniuses HES A FUCKING PRO-with pro genetics.
The rest of us have to eat, and eat and eat, despite what the IF'ers say.
Sorry for the rant but the upping of the dose thing really strikes a nerver with me.

OK great so essentially you did find you made progress by lowering the weight and upping the reps. I guess in that case you'd still be getting stronger but in the upper rep ranges.

As mentioned I imagine high quality machines allow for continuous pushing without as much risk

 

[BigJB]

improvement comes from stimulation (x)

you get stimulation from amount of weight (w) times volume (v)

V x W = X

If you lower W, you have to increase V to reach desired amount of stimulation.

If you're tissue, ligaments, and joints could handle it, we would all just do it Ronnie style and increase both, then do it twice a week

 

[BigJB]

Of course there are exercise variations and form manipulation to consider, but at the end of the day, its about how many times you lifted x amount of weight with proper form and whether or not you got your rest, food, and drugs in that day, week, year, years, etc.

 

[pryde]

Exactly. Even the guys who promote high volume are strong as hell. Layne Norton and John Meadows might promote high volume and not training to failure often but last time I checked Layne could deadlift ~700 Bench ~400 and Squat ~600 while Meadows squatted ~700 I believe. For the record I am not saying these guys ever said strength gains aren't important.

For me, the times when I've tried to ignore strength gains and just do the volume have never resulted in better gains or at most I got temporary sarcoplasmic gains. Unless someone started using a higher dose of AAS or something.

Which, as mentioned, is actually unfortunate in my opinion. On the one hand it makes things simple...gain strength and you'll get bigger. But how long can that really last? I guess you need to progress to the right exercises as well. My crappy school gym pretty much only has free weights (the machines are useless and anyone with decent strength could max them out) and at 21 years old I've already had minor shoulder, pec and low back injuries, and as of today a lat/teres major one as well from my heavy lifting. Can't even imagine what would be happening if I was 40+. I'd love to have access to some high quality machines like hammer strength or something, I would imagine the risks are much lower.

+1 on this experience. I've tried it all as well and nothing compares to simply adding weight to the bar. Volume makes no difference for me except for joint health (higher volume/more pump sets makes the joints smile).

Just because a pro is benching 225 in a video doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to throw up 405x10..he just isn't displaying that ability at the time, and that's what matters when it comes to size...having that ability to move big weights. It's easy to maintain size once you have it, but getting there requires more weight on the bar

Look at some of the pros and the weights they move or have moved in the past

Phil Heath - usually is on hammer strength machines in videos, but was in a video repping out 225 on flat for a million reps which puts his max in the 500 range

Cedric Mcmillan - attributes his pec size to a lot flye movements and says hes unique that way....but reps out 405 on an incline in the smith in a recent video

Kai Greene - famous for his 'im not a weightlifter, im a bodybuilder focused on squeezing my muscles' video...reps 495lbs on incline 11 days out from the olympia and routinely does the same in the off season + squats 585 for reps

Lionel Beyeke - routinely benches 405 for reps the incline, squatted 6-something in a video

Toney Freeman - does a lot of 'pump training' these days to maintain his size...had mentioned squatting 600 for reps in his younger days

Dexter -does a lot of machine shit in videos, but still reps out 405 on flat bench

David Henry - 5 plate/side hammer strength inclines, 315+ close grips, big hack squats, heavy ass rows DC trainee

Evan Centopani - reps 405 on bench, 315 inclines for high reps, squats 500+ for reps

JOJ/Branch - say what u want about branch, but hes got a lot of mass period...both are strong as hell

and someone mentioned John Meadows...the man toys with 315 on incline, benches over 4 on flat, and squats 500 for reps

Dante has some haters, but there's a reason why he preaches lifting heavier and heavier weights for reps over time...it just works

 

[Ides44]

yeah just take john medows and layne norton the this overtraning bullshit. bodybuilder can over train. i take a couple og weeks go get use to traning the body more that 1 time a week and spilt your volume up. but it works

With all due respect, I can't figure out what the fuck you just said...and i have an actual degree.

Please articulate better, because, I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY.

Thanks. ...nothing personal.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

+1 on this experience. I've tried it all as well and nothing compares to simply adding weight to the bar. Volume makes no difference for me except for joint health (higher volume/more pump sets makes the joints smile).

Just because a pro is benching 225 in a video doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to throw up 405x10..he just isn't displaying that ability at the time, and that's what matters when it comes to size...having that ability to move big weights. It's easy to maintain size once you have it, but getting there requires more weight on the bar

Look at some of the pros and the weights they move or have moved in the past

Phil Heath - usually is on hammer strength machines in videos, but was in a video repping out 225 on flat for a million reps which puts his max in the 500 range

Cedric Mcmillan - attributes his pec size to a lot flye movements and says hes unique that way....but reps out 405 on an incline in the smith in a recent video

Kai Greene - famous for his 'im not a weightlifter, im a bodybuilder focused on squeezing my muscles' video...reps 495lbs on incline 11 days out from the olympia and routinely does the same in the off season + squats 585 for reps

Lionel Beyeke - routinely benches 405 for reps the incline, squatted 6-something in a video

Toney Freeman - does a lot of 'pump training' these days to maintain his size...had mentioned squatting 600 for reps in his younger days

Dexter -does a lot of machine shit in videos, but still reps out 405 on flat bench

David Henry - 5 plate/side hammer strength inclines, 315+ close grips, big hack squats, heavy ass rows DC trainee

Evan Centopani - reps 405 on bench, 315 inclines for high reps, squats 500+ for reps

JOJ/Branch - say what u want about branch, but hes got a lot of mass period...both are strong as hell

and someone mentioned John Meadows...the man toys with 315 on incline, benches over 4 on flat, and squats 500 for reps

Dante has some haters, but there's a reason why he preaches lifting heavier and heavier weights for reps over time...it just works

Perfect examples. As you mentioned even the huge guys who don't lift super heavy still have the ability to do so if they chose to. Kai Greene makes me laugh with that bullshit "i just focus on squeezing the muscle" video. Not saying that's never important, but don't try to tell me anyone is getting 20+in. arms from those 35lb dumbbell curls.

 

[pieguy]

Obviously we're not squeezing hard enough . I don't think there's a single IFBB pro (even in the 212's) that does not bench 405 x 8, squat 495 x 8 and dead 495 x 8 in the offseason as a first exercise. It's just not possible to get that brutal size without being strong.

If you train in peculiar ways like Milos did, you're so busy pre-exhausting, etc. that people might perceive you as weak, but you're probably still strong as hell if you actually cared to work towards a heavy triple.