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Thoughts??

Lenny

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Do you believe a bodybuilder needs to have one true offseason (blowing up in bodyweight while still having good amounts of muscle underneath)? I know it has been discussed a million times, different thoughts on it, but if a competitor needs or wants to jump a weight class to show progression wouldn't that be the best route still.

Yes, many of know the principles that Dante, and so many of the other vets agree on that being:

* Heavy progressive weights

* Lower workout volume but higher workout frequency

* Multirep rest-pause training (working harder for each rep)

* Hard stretching

* Carb cutoffs later in the day while keeping carbs high at breakfast, around workouts

* Morning cardio (or is cardio a waste of time in the offseason if you are truly training like an animal)

* Higher protein intake

There is many things that play factor, mine personally is appetite. I am always hungry when prepping and when I am not prepping the hunger slowly decreases to the point of not enjoying it on some days, but somedays it is better...damn consistency thing!

Dante really got me thinking when he posted that thread on Kevin Jordan blowing up, but I will bet kevin makes a ton of noise as a super heavy in a good way!! Just a dicussion guys!!
 

tkav1980

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Is it the FASTEST way to add mass? sure! Is it the best way? im not convinced. depends on what you consider fat though... the guy in that pic dante posted wasnt fat. he wasnt in contest shape but he wasnt fat by any means. I think each individual is going to have a magic % where they get the best growth without getting sloppy. and individually that will differ.
 

crams60

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yes quickest way to gain mass but many pros say they do not have a true bulking season and only gain 20 -25 pounds while bulking such as brandon curry and branch warren.
 

jp2007

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yes quickest way to gain mass but many pros say they do not have a true bulking season and only gain 20 -25 pounds while bulking such as brandon curry and branch warren.

Most pros already have the right amount of mass so there is no reason to get ridiculous in the offseason, they are working on putting more mass in certain areas. Also, they have many guest appearances so they can't look too sloppy.

In my opinion, you should take an offseason and try this approach out. See how your body handles it, and see how your gains are. It can definitely be beneficial for people, but I don't think it's for everyone.

PS- I'm young and don't have the experience of others. But I know quite a few people in the industry and this is just my thoughts on this approach from seeing other people.
 

Mad Matt

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Most pros already have the right amount of mass so there is no reason to get ridiculous in the offseason, they are working on putting more mass in certain areas. Also, they have many guest appearances so they can't look too sloppy.

In my opinion, you should take an offseason and try this approach out. See how your body handles it, and see how your gains are. It can definitely be beneficial for people, but I don't think it's for everyone.

PS- I'm young and don't have the experience of others. But I know quite a few people in the industry and this is just my thoughts on this approach from seeing other people.

And what about cardio??

Would it be beneficial to drop it if as the op says, your training like a beast...
 

VTliftVT

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And what about cardio??

Would it be beneficial to drop it if as the op says, your training like a beast...

I think of cardio as more of a tool in the offseason to keep me hungry. I know if I get up and do fasted cardio I'm much more inclined to stay hungry throughout the day.

I also think doing a little cardio and getting the blood moving from time to time is a good thing....you can eat more food without getting fat....etc etc
 

Lenny

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Guys, the reason I starting this thread is because of several posts that stick in my head.

Such as food is the raw materials while training/supplementation/recovery are the reactors (I have to give Brad credit on sticking that one in my head). Obviously, if food is super anabolic and your offseason goal is to make a noticable change, why not go big or go home concept;)Will you have prep longer if you get bigger in the offseason? Yes, but prepping is a mind thing more than anything, we just need to know we can prep like a champ from that offseason!

And I am not saying eat junk food for every meal in the offseason, I am talking about copious amounts of clean food (Dante always refer to it as)

Now figuring out the appetite may be the issue:(
 

b-boy

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let the mirror be the judge! eat eat eat bro, I think you can be a damn good looking 230lbs guy in the offseaon, you never have had a problem of getting lean, follow dante's principles and you will be where you wanna be, the man know about putting on muscle, pure and simple.
 

tenny

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yes quickest way to gain mass but many pros say they do not have a true bulking season and only gain 20 -25 pounds while bulking such as brandon curry and branch warren.

lmaoo.....those two in the same sentence is funny

anyway.......every year i try to get as big as humanly possible
highest ever being 268......and it calculated to 2lbs of stage weight:eek:
and i was soft......a year later....stayed mid 240s off season
come show time had a 3lb jump.....with better conditioning

there is so factors here that dictate actual GAINS
in a perfect world we'er all 265 and ripped.....but its not perfect

all you can do is the best you can with what you have

some of us have a strait flush
some of us have a pair of 3s

but one thing is for sure
they are BOTH WINNING HANDS

:cool:
 

jp2007

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And what about cardio??

Would it be beneficial to drop it if as the op says, your training like a beast...

For me and people i know, if our appetite lacks we add 15-20 minutes of cardio post workout a few times a week. Or simply just dont eat very much for a couple days. It seems to help.

The hardest part for me is eating first thing in the morning and post workout.

I'll be the first to admit my offseason eating habits arent that good. But what i found that helps me is, first thing in the morning i'll eat a single poptart and then drink a shake with 50g whey, 5g BCAA, 5G creatine, and 12oz coconut milk. I will do the same thing post workout. I dont know if it's a mental thing or not, but for some reason whenever i have that im super hunger in less than an hour. I also try to keep my food less filling, and eat a smaller portion more frequently.
 

b-boy

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For me and people i know, if our appetite lacks we add 15-20 minutes of cardio post workout a few times a week. Or simply just dont eat very much for a couple days. It seems to help.

The hardest part for me is eating first thing in the morning and post workout.

I'll be the first to admit my offseason eating habits arent that good. But what i found that helps me is, first thing in the morning i'll eat a single poptart and then drink a shake with 50g whey, 5g BCAA, 5G creatine, and 12oz coconut milk. I will do the same thing post workout. I dont know if it's a mental thing or not, but for some reason whenever i have that im super hunger in less than an hour. I also try to keep my food less filling, and eat a smaller portion more frequently.
:eek: :eek: WOW im starving like a refugee hostage at those times.... I can't seem to eat enough at breakfast and especially post workout!
 

jp2007

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:eek: :eek: WOW im starving like a refugee hostage at those times.... I can't seem to eat enough at breakfast and especially post workout!

In the morning i am starving, but if i eat right when i wake up i just cant stomach it. Same with post workout. I just can't seem to get the food down right away. So i just pull out my bitch card, drink a shake and wait a few until i can stomach a meal.
 

warrenpeace

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In the morning i am starving, but if i eat right when i wake up i just cant stomach it. Same with post workout. I just can't seem to get the food down right away. So i just pull out my bitch card, drink a shake and wait a few until i can stomach a meal.

I could far exceed my daily caloric needs without much effort at all. I really need to portion meals out to avoid overeating, but I also know a lot of guys in your situation who just don't have the same appetite. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. The latter category tend to stay leaner but mass is slower to come, while the other group can add mass/weight quickly but need to take the necessary steps to avoid unwanted fat gain. I'm sure not everyone falls into one or the other, but it's just an observation on my part.
 

richiec

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:eek: :eek: WOW im starving like a refugee hostage at those times.... I can't seem to eat enough at breakfast and especially post workout!

:yeahthat:

Brad, I am by no means a beast such as yourself, but I feel ya brother. I can never get full in the morning. I eat like a horse and it never fills me up for more than 5 minutes
 

BabyBeast05

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I am always hungry, offseason, contest prep, all the time! In the offseason I have to limit my meals or I'll get too fat. Shelby has me eating 6-7 meals a day and a night time shake and I still get hungry in between meals! If I have a meal I wait 2.5 hours before my next meal, if my meal is a shake I wait 2 hours before my next meal. I have to give myself these waiting times or I'd eat every 1.5 hours and just be a tub of flubber! My genetics for staying lean in the offseason suck! If i'm not starving and killing cardio I don't have abs, but my arms and legs almost always have striations and stay vascular. I just get that infamous "bulking gut" like 2 weeks after a show. Fat boy genes I guess :banghead:
 

Iabadman

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Lenny...........first of all........you are smart , have done well for yourself , and are one of the coolest guys here on pm.......you are humble ,yet driven........driven ,not obsessed......you contribute, yet still want to learn......I have some good ideas for you ........I am no one special......and I am not some guru.....but I was brought up in this activity by Dante and cover my bases pretty thoughly.....if you want to trade some ideas ,pm me ......I'll shoot you my number and we can chat........maybe write me an outline of what all you are doing to achieve your current goals and what exactly they are......

And on a final note , Tenny.......your posts kick ass period end of story.......they are brief , honest , to the point , and have a ton of substance .[ you must an east coast guy or maybe english .........there is truth and justice in your every post ] Glad you are here.......I learn from everything you share here ......
 

b-boy

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the knife, spoon, and fork will QUICKLY seperate the weekend wanna be bodybuilder from the true juggernauts in this game.
 

Flex2019

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After reading Dante's recent posts regarding offseason eating, I have decided to go a little bigger this fall than I usually do. Two weeks after my last comp (June 12) I began eating 5000-5500 calories per day, which is far more than I usually eat in the offseason. I am eating clean 90% of the time, with only a small cheat once a week or so. Eating this many calories but keeping them clean has not been easy, but has resulted in a weight gain of close to 30 lbs (I competed at 176 and I'm sitting right at 205 now).

My abs are a little soft but still all visible. I have made more strength gains in the last 6 weeks than I did in the final four months of last year's offseason. It was a little tough in the beginning to see my abs softening up, as I like to be lean, but it's paying off big time and I can't wait to see what will happen come next year.

My goal is to get as big as I can by the winter, I don't think it will be a problem to hit 230 or so based on my results thus far. I am hoping that this will translate into a rather large jump in stage weight. I'd love to be on stage at over 190lbs next year, and Dante made me realize that heavy offseason eating is the only way to get there. The crazy thing is, there has been only a VERY small amount of AAS involved. I didn't think this was possible. Food is a very powerful tool.
 

chris250

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:eek:well I can say that bulking up you will put on alot of muscle (as long as your eating good foods, not junk crap foods) but the key is holding on to the muscle when your coming down in weight...that was always my problem when I got up to the 270ish range...I can get big, not really a problem...but coming down I would still end up losing 50-60lbs or whatever...If I stay within 20-25lbs of what I think will be my contest weight...I can hold on to muscle much better...Plus, I feel like since Im not killing myself coming down in weight I can still grow threwout my prep...(its only the last month where i screw it up...LOL) So yeah, bulking can work...but holding on to the muscle is the key to getting larger, bigger or moving up a weight class...Its a very hard thing to do...IMO
 

animalsd

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Chris, do you think if you stayed at 270 for longer than an off season, lets say 18 months straight (skipping your annual diet for a show), do you think you'd be able to hold on to more muscle mass for your following contest?
 

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