THREAD: The God Paradox and Universality Thread

[OuchThatHurts]

See, you take all those primitive texts from clay tablets and papyrus and interpret them literally. I try to see how we can view said texts through the lens of science and come up with possibilities. Genesis and the Nephilim are pure Hebrew mythology. To try to wedge those in takes a lot of bending and pretzel work of the mind. I'm not built that way.

As far as sentences like, "then God did this, thenhe decided to that" don't forget. Time to an omnipresent being is nothing. Consider an analogy. Humans view time as before, during, and after. While something outside the realm would look at all time from beginning to end as on a sheet of paper — seeing all things at once.

But excellent post. Glad you shared your thoughts!

 

[stackdizzy]

https://www.sacred-texts.com

This is a great site if any of the above interests you. I have read from it extensively on my own path.

 

[stackdizzy]

Tartaria mud flood perhaps?


Graham Hancock has some theories..

I am not arguing your beliefs here but man Billy Carson is a crack pot. He makes up things without any literature to support his theories. Some of his claims are pretty bold

 

[j2048b]

I am not arguing your beliefs here but man Billy Carson is a crack pot. He makes up things without any literature to support his theories. Some of his claims are pretty bold

yeah he does have some far out weird stuff..i just saw that video and i was like whoaaa...it was interesting and makes you think tho....

and sometimes u have actual preachers confirming therehave been more than one flood

 

[j2048b]

See, you take all those primitive texts from clay tablets and papyrus and interpret them literally. I try to see how we can view said texts through the lens of science and come up with possibilities. Genesis and the Nephilim are pure Hebrew mythology. To try to wedge those in takes a lot of bending and pretzel work of the mind. I'm not built that way.

As far as sentences like, "then God did this, thenhe decided to that" don't forget. Time to an omnipresent being is nothing. Consider an analogy. Humans view time as before, during, and after. While something outside the realm would look at all time from beginning to end as on a sheet of paper — seeing all things at once.

But excellent post. Glad you shared your thoughts!

well DO WE know? Nope we dont know crap to be honest.... we can all read the same bible and parable and come up with completely different ideas and or reasons etc.... how do we know none of it didnt happen? or do we just forget about it, and the fact that this world was once run by outcasts that were tossed from heaven? How did all these mythical "gods" show up? they were all tossed out from heaven and on earth could be looked upon as "gods" in their own right... not ours... we were created by who? The Gods.....there is more than one level of heaven paul said he was caught up into the third heaven.... read revelations....it explains a ton of stuff that blows ur mind.... dead sea scrolls are another thing that carry books that arent in "the bible" which is put together by men, and some books are left out, but when you go to ethiopia they include certain books we dont.... and it was put together by man.....

some of what Billy Carson states about the arc made me think especially when explained with the pyramids and them producing power... a lot of people discredit stuff, yet when thinking about how everything was built and the size of certain items....no way we as a civilization can recreate most of it....we have lost that knowledge....

 

[OuchThatHurts]

some of what Billy Carson states about the arc made me think especially when explained with the pyramids and them producing power...

Yeesh... weren't there other ships at the time? Egypt, no idea. I wish I had these answers. I've read The Bible and the Apocrypha many times. None of it meshes together well at least taken literally but prophetic books are so much symbology that would have made sense thousands of years ago to many small tribes in the fertile crescent, translated to us today, are almost meaningless. Even scholars in ancient cultures can't agree.

As a result, I just try to extract as much truth as I can about being a good person and how exactly to do that. Me being uncertain about all of it, I search for meaning and purpose and try to live as pleasing a way to whatever may be out there as I can. From the heart. But that's realky all I gots at the moment.

 

[j2048b]

This is why i believe a lot of what i do....because it has already happened....and continues to happen... everything we see or hear is not a conspiracy.... it is based on facts and things that have happened.....& it has been given to us as a road map within the bible.....the more we learn the more educated (not enlightened) we become... i was blown away by Amir and this sermon....

 

[stackdizzy]

This is why i believe a lot of what i do....because it has already happened....and continues to happen... everything we see or hear is not a conspiracy.... it is based on facts and things that have happened.....& it has been given to us as a road map within the bible.....the more we learn the more educated (not enlightened) we become... i was blown away by Amir and this sermon....

Ok so to respond to this I am going to have to challenge your beliefs a bit. So if thats going to offend you simply do use both a favor and read no further.

So I took the time to watch this video. Interesting and yet very revealing. He goes into Illuminism, Gnosticism, Kaballah, Hermetics, Knights Templars, Luciferinanism, Rosicrucianism, Muslim Assassins, Rothchilds(banking), Adam Weishaupt(founder of illuminati), Judaism, Masonry, Baphamet, and some others. He seems to have a very basic understanding of these Schools of thought. Even goes into some details that are taken out of context and uses that to base his beliefs. He also exposes the way some of these schools have used/abused their power for their own ends. Some of these schools have their own political views attached to them, some don't. I am not an expert but have more than a basic understanding of them. Really these schools are for those who have the eyes to see it. If this is a path that intrigues you study Hermetics, Gnosticism, Kaballah or just simply join a masonic lodge if you need structure.

What Billy Carson preaches is really somewhat of a construed view of Hermetics as he takes certain liberties in things that have no basis or seems to speak as if theories are facts.

Now what could I say about the bible, well I could say well that line of thinking promotes pedophilia or pedophilia sympathizers. Now thats a pretty ignorant statement but probably statistically true. Especially with Catholism. I would also encourage you to read the mistranslations and study the revisions of the bible before putting your beliefs in it. A lot of the concepts of the bible are simply made up in mistranslation, you'd be surprised. Most religions are true to an individual simply because they were indoctrinated in them at a young age. Essentially brain-washed so young that its really ingrained in their world view/reality. Few people can escape this and to become adept in the mystery schools as you really need to question EVERYTHING you believe. Mystery schools don't want everyone they are not for everyone. Also study what some popes have done to silence anyone with a conflicting belief system. Some of which are not in the light of any god i'd care to believe in.

I also would like to question your educated vs enlightenment comment. You can become educated in any religion but understanding its principles would refer to enlightenment

Also I questioi in religion is a case study of this........... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

[j2048b]

Ok so to respond to this I am going to have to challenge your beliefs a bit. So if thats going to offend you simply do use both a favor and read no further.

So I took the time to watch this video. Interesting and yet very revealing. He goes into Illuminism, Gnosticism, Kaballah, Hermetics, Knights Templars, Luciferinanism, Rosicrucianism, Muslim Assassins, Rothchilds(banking), Adam Weishaupt(founder of illuminati), Judaism, Masonry, Baphamet, and some others. He seems to have a very basic understanding of these Schools of thought. Even goes into some details that are taken out of context and uses that to base his beliefs. He also exposes the way some of these schools have used/abused their power for their own ends. Some of these schools have their own political views attached to them, some don't. I am not an expert but have more than a basic understanding of them. Really these schools are for those who have the eyes to see it. If this is a path that intrigues you study Hermetics, Gnosticism, Kaballah or just simply join a masonic lodge if you need structure.

What Billy Carson preaches is really somewhat of a construed view of Hermetics as he takes certain liberties in things that have no basis or seems to speak as if theories are facts.

Now what could I say about the bible, well I could say well that line of thinking promotes pedophilia or pedophilia sympathizers. Now thats a pretty ignorant statement but probably statistically true. Especially with Catholism. I would also encourage you to read the mistranslations and study the revisions of the bible before putting your beliefs in it. A lot of the concepts of the bible are simply made up in mistranslation, you'd be surprised. Most religions are true to an individual simply because they were indoctrinated in them at a young age. Essentially brain-washed so young that its really ingrained in their world view/reality. Few people can escape this and to become adept in the mystery schools as you really need to question EVERYTHING you believe. Mystery schools don't want everyone they are not for everyone. Also study what some popes have done to silence anyone with a conflicting belief system. Some of which are not in the light of any god i'd care to believe in.

I also would like to question your educated vs enlightenment comment. You can become educated in any religion but understanding its principles would refer to enlightenment

Also I questioi in religion is a case study of this........... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

I have no idea by the whole pedaphilia remark u made?? Nooo idea?

But to answer ur question(s)….

I believe in Jesus… all the other stuff just make u think there are other things that lead up to Jesus coming…. We dont know a quarter of what happened before us, all we can do is continue to dig up dirt and prolly never truly come to the truth. So jesus is the answer

 

[stackdizzy]

I have no idea by the whole pedaphilia remark u made?? Nooo idea?

But to answer ur question(s)….

I believe in Jesus… all the other stuff just make u think there are other things that lead up to Jesus coming…. We dont know a quarter of what happened before us, all we can do is continue to dig up dirt and prolly never truly come to the truth. So jesus is the answer

Thousands of Priests Abused Over 200,000 Children in French Catholic Church

An independent commission in France concluded that there was widespread sexual abuse of children dating back decades.

www.newsweek.com

And what questions were you referring to?

I am having a hard time reconciling your beliefs as you state as you believe we only know a quarter of what happened? Where did you get that figure? And if we can never know the truth, why is Jesus the answer?

 

[pistonpump]

It seems u either question the world or you believe something you don't question to be truth.
If life was an exam would you study the exam or just follow a given answer sheet that's supposed to be the right answers?

 

[stackdizzy]

It seems u either question the world or you believe something you don't question to be truth.
If life was an exam would you study the exam or just follow a given answer sheet that's supposed to be the right answers?

Well that's a simple question but the answer isn't so simple. If life was an exam would you study the exam or just follow a given answer sheet that's suppose to be the right answer? Well in this case you have multiple right answers, so that would lead to well anyone is right, just use any given answer sheet(Christianity, Judaism, Muslim ..ect) since they're all right. So this would beg the question which is the most right? Well just pick one....as long as you pic one. So they are all right and yet all wrong. It's a totally subjective question. Since the exam is totally subjective a curious few would be like what is this exam for? If there is no right are wrong answer why do I even need to take this exam?

 

[stackdizzy]

I forgot to add this at the end

What's wrong with just filling in any answer that's not on a cheat sheet? Why would you even bother with a cheat sheet?

 

[pistonpump]

If you believe there's absolute truths (science) to the world then there would be one answer wouldn't there be? On how the universe works, reality, consciousness, how everything came to be, etc. Is there a definite truth to it or is everything meant to not be defined even outside our human understanding?

So to find the truth you would have to question everything and decide based on what's the most logical based on all the inputs received. (Religion, history, experience, intuition, etc)

 

[OuchThatHurts]

If you believe there's absolute truths (science) to the world then there would be one answer wouldn't there be? On how the universe works, reality, consciousness, how everything came to be, etc. Is there a definite truth to it or is everything meant to not be defined even outside our human understanding?

So to find the truth you would have to question everything and decide based on what's the most logical based on all the inputs received. (Religion, history, experience, intuition, etc)

Precisely. And it's highly likely we perceive just the tiniest fraction of reality. Some birds navigate using the magnetic fields of the Earth. I can't perceive the Earth's magnetosphere, bats can hear insanely high frequencies, while still others can see into the UV and IR spectrum. Nothing in this thread is for certain.

It all requires a degree of faith. Consider also that the universe's very nature appears to have some built-in roadblocks to prevent us from knowing too much. Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle, the maximum speeds we can travel at, Bell Inequalties (completely bizarre), communication between entangled particles, et al.

Three people were just awarded Nobel Prizes in 2022 for proving now that without a doubt that yes, objects we view and consciously observe, in fact, do NOT exist until our observation collapses the wave function into a real object or outcome.

So as the old question goes, "If a tree falls in the woods with nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?" The answer is no. Because there is no tree.

Another example. You and a friend across town are playing inside a 3D video game. You run into a room in the game and see a red chair. When you run out of that room, what happens to the red chair? Does it exist? Yet seconds later, your buddy across town runs into the same room uou just left and also sees a red chair. So two important things we know from this: 1) When you both leave the room, the red chair ceases to exist and 2) that the chair is identical to both of you means it is part of the game's framework (programming) and is only *rendered* into existence when one or more players are observing it.

This is not very far from reality. So perhaps "life is but a dream"? And all of this is one big simulation. It remains impossible for us, but to something millions or billions of years more advanced than we, it could be quite possible.

 

[stackdizzy]

If you believe there's absolute truths (science) to the world then there would be one answer wouldn't there be? On how the universe works, reality, consciousness, how everything came to be, etc. Is there a definite truth to it or is everything meant to not be defined even outside our human understanding?

So to find the truth you would have to question everything and decide based on what's the most logical based on all the inputs received. (Religion, history, experience, intuition, etc)

Science is based on empirical truths.

Absolute truth - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.m.wikipedia.org

As far as is everything not meant to be defined. I think some things can be defined but some are outside our current understanding. That's not to say they're not meant to be defined

How is religion at all logical when it's based on faith?

 

[stackdizzy]

Precisely. And it's highly likely we perceive just the tiniest fraction of reality. Some birds navigate using the magnetic fields of the Earth. I can't perceive the Earth's magnetosphere, bats can hear insanely high frequencies, while still others can see into the UV and IR spectrum. Nothing in this thread is for certain.

It all requires a degree of faith. Consider also that the universe's very nature appears to have some built-in roadblocks to prevent us from knowing too much. Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle, the maximum speeds we can travel at, Bell Inequalties (completely bizarre), communication between entangled particles, et al.

Three people were just awarded Nobel Prizes in 2022 for proving now that without a doubt that yes, objects we view and consciously observe, in fact, do NOT exist until our observation collapses the wave function into a real object or outcome.

So as the old question goes, "If a tree falls in the woods with nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?" The answer is no. Because there is no tree.

Another example. You and a friend across town are playing inside a 3D video game. You run into a room in the game and see a red chair. When you run out of that room, what happens to the red chair? Does it exist? Yet seconds later, your buddy across town runs into the same room uou just left and also sees a red chair. So two important things we know from this: 1) When you both leave the room, the red chair ceases to exist and 2) that the chair is identical to both of you means it is part of the game's framework (programming) and is only *rendered* into existence when one or more players are observing it.

This is not very far from reality. So perhaps "life is but a dream"? And all of this is one big simulation. It remains impossible for us, but to something millions or billions of years more advanced than we, it could be quite possible.

The Nobel Prize in Physics 2022

The Nobel Prize in Physics 2022 was awarded jointly to Alain Aspect, John F. Clauser and Anton Zeilinger "for experiments with entangled photons, establishing the violation of Bell inequalities and pioneering quantum information science"

www.nobelprize.org

Are these the three winners your referring to because it states nothing of the sort. Could you please post a link to what you described?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

The Nobel Prize in Physics 2022

The Nobel Prize in Physics 2022 was awarded jointly to Alain Aspect, John F. Clauser and Anton Zeilinger "for experiments with entangled photons, establishing the violation of Bell inequalities and pioneering quantum information science"

www.nobelprize.org

Are these the three winners your referring to because it states nothing of the sort. Could you please post a link to what you described?

Next time, maybe just ask for a link first. From SciAm:

The Universe Is Not Locally Real, and the Physics Nobel Prize Winners Proved It

Elegant experiments with entangled light have laid bare a profound mystery at the heart of reality

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[stackdizzy]

Next time, maybe just ask for a link first. From SciAm:

The Universe Is Not Locally Real, and the Physics Nobel Prize Winners Proved It

Elegant experiments with entangled light have laid bare a profound mystery at the heart of reality

www.scientificamerican.com

Ok this is in fact the same people but I just don't/didn't/still don't understand it well enough. That being said there is no way I am going to buy that my new couch doesn't exist simply because I quit looking at it. Like it just goes away when I walk upstairs along with everything in the house. Quantum Physics or not if my brother comes over and says hey you got a new couch. While I am not looking at it. How is it not real he didn't know he should be looking at a new couch. Why is the old couch not there for him? What if I didn't get a new couch and just rearranged the living room. Why would he not see the old arrangement. Simply because that stuff is real and I moved it. The article states

Instead the evidence shows that objects are not influenced solely by their surroundings, and they may also lack definite properties prior to measurement

They may also not.

Another one I tell my niece there is 50 bucks in an envelope that I got for her. When she opens it up there are in fact two $50 bills. Why did the other one simply not disappear as she was only expecting to be looking at $50.

I could go on and on

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Ok this is in fact the same people but I just don't/didn't/still don't understand it well enough. That being said there is no way I am going to buy that my new couch doesn't exist simply because I quit looking at it. Like it just goes away when I walk upstairs along with everything in the house. Quantum Physics or not if my brother comes over and says hey you got a new couch. While I am not looking at it. How is it not real he didn't know he should be looking at a new couch. Why is the old couch not there for him? What if I didn't get a new couch and just rearranged the living room. Why would he not see the old arrangement. Simply because that stuff is real and I moved it. The article states

Instead the evidence shows that objects are not influenced solely by their surroundings, and they may also lack definite properties prior to measurement

They may also not.

Another one I tell my niece there is 50 bucks in an envelope that I got for her. When she opens it up there are in fact two $50 bills. Why did the other one simply not disappear as she was only expecting to be looking at $50.

I could go on and on

You have gone on and on. We know now that it is a testable and repeatable fact. Because we can't understand it (which we don't) doesn't make it any less true. We can test, measure, and observe the affects of gravity. But as to why and what gravity actually is, wave or particle, beam of force, we have absolutely no idea. Sometimes you have to just let it go and recognize that the universe we reside is far stranger than can be currently imagined.

Edit: p.s. just say you don't believe it or understand it and move on. Nobody is hating on you for it. This thread is for discussing the things we don't understand. So you're in the right place, brother.