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Too many Anti-estrogens?

MUSCLEBOSS35

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If one is using a stack of: 1500mg Sostenon 250 wk, 800mg Boldenone wk, Halotestin 20mg/day, Winstrol 100mg/EOD, Trenbolone 75mg/EOD, Deca 800mg wk....would it be over doing it by using Letrozole 2.5mg/EOD AND Dostinex .5mg/EOD?....
I would be using the Dostinex for the estrogen build up from the Tren And Deca. I was wondering if by using both of these anti-estrogens together would supress estrogen levels too much. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
 
I thought anti estros wont help with Deca and Tren. Bro that cycle is overkill!!!
 
Anti-estrogens

I've been using this stack minus the ant-Is for the last 5 shows I've done...Dostinex is supposed to control the estogen from the Deca and Tren..any input?
 
Most people i have talked with use 1/2 tab dostinex eod. I enjoy armidex aswell but many people say it is hard on hdl etc. Might wanna go with dostinex and aromasin.
 
Actually it's Progesterone related sides that you will experience from Tren and Deca as their conversion will be to progesterone not estrogen. I am not too familiar with Dostenex however if it binds well to the progesteron receptors you will prolly be good to go but you still may need a good anti estrogen. Maybe BIGA will chime in here with a pre contest reccomendation.
 
too many people have anti-e questions, including me. someone should really post a sticky regarding what each one is used for, and its effectiveness. like an anti-e reference guide, i could sure use it.

arimidex?
letro?
aromisin?
bromo?
dostinex?
nolva?
proviron?

also, from what i understand, gyno from tren is caused by prolactin? which can only be solved with bromo or dostinex?
 
db006 said:
also, from what i understand, gyno from tren is caused by prolactin? which can only be solved with bromo or dostinex?
Easier said than done.

I believe the jury is still out on what causes tren-related gyno - and it may be a different mechanism for each individual. I've heard it's progesterone, or prolactin or even IGF-1 related.

Based on the "cause," the solution is different.

The pros and cons for anti-e's are almost as mind boggling as well.
 
I dont have a lot of cycle experiance but I can say when I did my first go around with tren I was taking femera and I started to get gyno symptoms and as soon as I started bromo it went away. Im pretty sure its progesterone related if its tren or deca.
 
bigdho said:
I dont have a lot of cycle experiance but I can say when I did my first go around with tren I was taking femera and I started to get gyno symptoms and as soon as I started bromo it went away. Im pretty sure its progesterone related if its tren or deca.
But I thought bromo was used to counteract prolactin-related gyno :confused:
 
Here's the deal..I know a little biochemistry so let's see if we can figure this out with all of us working together.

This is how a woman produces milk during pregnancy

heres how the reaction works

increased progesterone(blood) = decreased prolactin = alpha lactalbumin = lactose synthase... walla! milk (lactose)

however the reverse of this reaction occurs as well, here it is...

decreased progesterone = increased prolactin levels = no alpha lactalbumin produced, which inhibits the production of lactose (milk)

so we know that progesterone and prolactin levels are inversely related....so....somebody else chime in now
 
Oh brother... I could write a text book here, but I don't have the time. So I will give some quick short answers.

Basics on Prolactin, and most importantly that Dopamine regulation has a major effect on prolactin secretion:

**broken link removed**

Prolactin and progesterone are not the same thing, and are not simply connected via steroidogenesis pathways (scroll down til you get to the graphic with all the sterans "Major pathways in steroid biogenesis").

**broken link removed**

Take a look (for those that are biochemically inclined) as to the interrelationship of the various steroids in the body. Note the reactions/enzymatic processes that connect them - these are what we typically seek to modulate with "anti-side effect" drugs (i.e. control aromatase CYP19, control Aldosterone CYP11B2, etc.)

Quickie on the drugs:

arimidex, letrozole - are aromatase inhibitors. For example, Anastrozole is a potent and selective non-steroidal aromatase inhibitor. It significantly lowers serum estradiol concentrations and has no detectable effect on formation of adrenal corticosteroids or aldosterone. These drugs do not directly effect estrogen/estradiol already in circulation. They just help reduce the production of estrogen/estradiol going forward.

aromasin/exemstane - these drugs work by selectively targeting and irreversibly binding to the aromatase enzyme, which is required to produce estradiol/estrogen. Basically they are steroidal aromatase inactivators. Again, similar to the aromatase inhibitors, these drugs do not directly impact estrogen that is already in circulation.

nolvadex - is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM). Basically it blocks the actions of estrogen in breast tissues and certain other tissues by "occupying" the estrogen receptors on cells. With a SERM sitting in the estrogen receptor, there is no place for the real estrogen to "sit down" - like a game of musical chairs. The SERM fits in the estrogen receptor, but it does NOT send messages to the cell nucleus to grow and divide. This is why nolvadex can help in situations where circulating estrogen levels are already elevated. For example early signs of gyno indicate high circulating estrogen levels - nolvadex is the best initial treatment to block the circulating estrogen from binding, followed-up by either an aromatase inhibitor or an inactivator to stop additional estrogen in its tracks.

bromocriptine & dostinex (cabergoline) - these 2 drugs do not directly modify estrogen or progesterone regulation. These drugs are dopamine agonists that mimic the effects of dopamine in the brain by stimulating dopamine receptors. This increased stimulation of dopamine receptors, as I wrote above, will have a direct impact on prolactin levels - it will cause a marked decrease in prolactin secretion from the pituitary.

proviron - has 2 main effects. (1) it stongly binds with sex hormone binding globulin, SHBG. SHBG normally binds with testosterone and as a result only 1-3% of total testosterone is ever free to bind with receptors. By binding with SHBG, proviron basically helps elevate free test levels. (2) Proviron is 5-alpha reduced (since it is DHT like) and therefore it can't convert to estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen). So it can act like an aromatase inactivator to some degree.

RU486/mifepristone - now this drug effects progesterone related side effects. The drug anti-progestational activity results from competitive interaction with progesterone at progesterone-receptor sites, and as a result the compound inhibits the activity of endogenous or exogenous progesterone.

Alright ya lazy fucks, that's all the good doctor has time to write on the subject. Now go read something.

DrG
 
xcelbeyond said:
But I thought bromo was used to counteract prolactin-related gyno :confused:


Your right excell, my bad.

Thanks DrG from the lesson :D
 

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