trt question 4 years in

[strummer]

Guys I am 64 now and been on trt for about 4 years(defy medical)..I will preface by saying I never did a cycle in my life before trt..I mention this because what intrigued me to try trt was I had pretty bad fatigue over the years and tried many supplements and all kinds of macro adjustments and it still persisted. I never had any sexual issues or classic low t symptoms but lab work initially show my total t at about 550...not low for sure but I wanted to see if being in upper limit would make a difference.. at 180 mg cypionate got me to about 950...honestly it didnt make me feel much better on a day to day basis..they cut me down to 140 a week and I stay around 600..not much difference from my start point..I can always take more t on my own if I decide so..my real question is I was making plenty of t on my own before starting and had no other issues but the fatigue am I now shut down forever and will require trt forever or if I decide to stop would I go back to my normal test levels? I have no problem staying on because doing so has been great motivator for gym and nutrition protocols..last year I did about 10 weeks of balkan oral primo but no other usage outside of trt...thanks for any input..I learned more on this board over the years than any where else( supplements, lab work,nutrition always years ahead of mainstream)

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Guys I am 64 now and been on trt for about 4 years(defy medical)..I will preface by saying I never did a cycle in my life before trt..I mention this because what intrigued me to try trt was I had pretty bad fatigue over the years and tried many supplements and all kinds of macro adjustments and it still persisted. I never had any sexual issues or classic low t symptoms but lab work initially show my total t at about 550...not low for sure but I wanted to see if being in upper limit would make a difference.. at 180 mg cypionate got me to about 950...honestly it didnt make me feel much better on a day to day basis..they cut me down to 140 a week and I stay around 600..not much difference from my start point..I can always take more t on my own if I decide so..my real question is I was making plenty of t on my own before starting and had no other issues but the fatigue am I now shut down forever and will require trt forever or if I decide to stop would I go back to my normal test levels? I have no problem staying on because doing so has been great motivator for gym and nutrition protocols..last year I did about 10 weeks of balkan oral primo but no other usage outside of trt...thanks for any input..I learned more on this board over the years than any where else( supplements, lab work,nutrition always years ahead of mainstream)

my brother in christ. Separate your paragraphs

no you will not go back. You‘re referencing test levels from 4 years ago at the age of 60 which, at that age, 4 years of decline in natural test production is significant.

also you felt like crap 4 years ago, your natural test now would be even lower so you’d feel worse just based on that. Plus you’re accustomed to the level you’re at now.

in short, you’re not “shut down” forever, but if you stop trt whatever test you produce naturally will never be enough to make you feel like you do now.

@pesty4077 would be a good brain to pick

 

[Blswan]

trt for about 4 years(defy medical)

Well at least you're with a good clinic. Did you have low FT to begin with? TT is an inadequate metric, solo, to diagnose hypogonadism. You need TT, FT, E2, LH, FSH, and SHBG at a minimum IMO. I would find it hard to believe Defy would prescribe a 64 year old TRT with a TT of 550 unless you had subpar FT. FT is where the rubber meets the road.

I agree with @SouthernMuscle that you can likely recoup your HPTA but your numbers may fair even worse than when you were 60. FWIW, TRT isn't a magic bullet. I have friends with adequate T levels that have jumped on TRT, despite my warnings, and also gained nothing from it. If you started with abysmal levels, then optimization will yield great results. However going from say mid level to upper levels is going to be less than stellar. Noticeable, but not likely a huge transformation.

 

[strummer]

I would have to dig out my pre trt labs but I recall I had no abnormal test values. FT or otherwise. We approached it As I was within range on everything but I wanted to be upper limit to compare with normal range. Defy was never pushy with me and I trust them. I would have never got script from GP or endo No regrets, just curious. Thanks for input

 

[strummer]

my brother in christ. Separate your paragraphs

no you will not go back. You‘re referencing test levels from 4 years ago at the age of 60 which, at that age, 4 years of decline in natural test production is significant.

also you felt like crap 4 years ago, your natural test now would be even lower so you’d feel worse just based on that. Plus you’re accustomed to the level you’re at now.

in short, you’re not “shut down” forever, but if you stop trt whatever test you produce naturally will never be enough to make you feel like you do now.

@pesty4077 would be a good brain to pick

Lol. Your right about paragraphs. Geezer 1 finger typing!

 

[cage99]

@strummer, did Defy take any blood work regarding your thyroid levels? Such as T4,T3, TSH, FT3, FT4, etc?

Not only that, but what about CBC, Lipid panel, Comprehensive Metabolic Panel, etc. If not you should definitely take a look and see!

Cage

 

[strummer]

@strummer, did Defy take any blood work regarding your thyroid levels? Such as T4,T3, TSH, FT3, FT4, etc?

Not only that, but what about CBC, Lipid panel, Comprehensive Metabolic Panel, etc. If not you should definitely take a look and see!

Cage

Yes. Very strict with all blood panels. They require it every 9 months and my Gp does same

 

[cage99]

Yes. Very strict with all blood panels. They require it every 9 months and my Gp does same

So everything is in range and if not is being corrected through either medications, supplements, diet, exercise, etc?

Cage

 

[strummer]

Regular workouts and clean diet have helped immensely. No mystery there. After I got cpac machine fatigue much improved. Funny how being consistent somehow improves the genetics many complain about !

 

[strummer]

So everything is in range and if not is being corrected through either medications, supplements, diet, exercise, etc?

Cage

I take lisinopral and propranolol for bp and hand tremor. All labs in range except Hdl. At 32. I am following DC protocol. Bergamot. Lutien. Fish oil and krill. Overall very healthy.

 

[Black Beard]

Guys I am 64 now and been on trt for about 4 years(defy medical)..I will preface by saying I never did a cycle in my life before trt..I mention this because what intrigued me to try trt was I had pretty bad fatigue over the years and tried many supplements and all kinds of macro adjustments and it still persisted. I never had any sexual issues or classic low t symptoms but lab work initially show my total t at about 550...not low for sure but I wanted to see if being in upper limit would make a difference.. at 180 mg cypionate got me to about 950...honestly it didnt make me feel much better on a day to day basis..they cut me down to 140 a week and I stay around 600..not much difference from my start point..I can always take more t on my own if I decide so..my real question is I was making plenty of t on my own before starting and had no other issues but the fatigue am I now shut down forever and will require trt forever or if I decide to stop would I go back to my normal test levels? I have no problem staying on because doing so has been great motivator for gym and nutrition protocols..last year I did about 10 weeks of balkan oral primo but no other usage outside of trt...thanks for any input..I learned more on this board over the years than any where else( supplements, lab work,nutrition always years ahead of mainstream)

Do you have thyroid labs? A lot of guys are hypo and don't realize it. For Fatigue issues, i would be looking at Free T4/Free T3/TSH (thyroid) Ferritin (iron), Vitamin B12 for starters.


Also, you can try testosterone propionate, some guys feel the T benefits from that more. Myself included (energy, libido, etc better). The peaks and troughs from propionate are a bit more like the physiological ones. Cypionate/enanthate keep levels "too steady" in some ways. (this might be where the extra water retention comes from).

 

[strummer]

Do you have thyroid labs? A lot of guys are hypo and don't realize it. For Fatigue issues, i would be looking at Free T4/Free T3/TSH (thyroid) Ferritin (iron), Vitamin B12 for starters.


Also, you can try testosterone propionate, some guys feel the T benefits from that more. Myself included (energy, libido, etc better). The peaks and troughs from propionate are a bit more like the physiological ones. Cypionate/enanthate keep levels "too steady" in some ways. (this might be where the extra water retention comes from).I have

 

[strummer]

I haven't had detailed thyroid panel in 4 years, good call on the ferritin..I will get that done next labs..I tried injectable b12. for 3 months without improvement..I had advanced thyroid panel 4 years ago and all was well. I think they give me the cheaper common thyroid labs now..

 

[buck]

You may be able to quit taking TRT. But the only way to know is to go off and see if your body responds. I have been on over 20 years and my levels were about 430 when i stated and i felt better art higher levels.

 

[Black Beard]

I haven't had detailed thyroid panel in 4 years, good call on the ferritin..I will get that done next labs..I tried injectable b12. for 3 months without improvement..I had advanced thyroid panel 4 years ago and all was well. I think they give me the cheaper common thyroid labs now..

That's the issue, being "in range" doesnt mean shit with thyroid panel. 50% of the range is hypothyroid on the lab sheet. Its likely you are hypothyroid and it was missed. I see it all the time. Low ferritin is also pretty common.

I would get a copy of all your thyroid panels asap, you can post here or PM me.

Make sure those panels contain Free T4 and ideally also free T3, if not, you need those two checked.

 

[nothuman]

Sorry to go off topic but does Defy stop prescribing TRT if you’re above a certain hemoglobin number?

 

[strummer]

Sorry to go off topic but does Defy stop prescribing TRT if you’re above a certain hemoglobin num

Sorry to go off topic but does Defy stop prescribing TRT if you’re above a certain hemoglobin number?

not sure as I have never been above midrange when they send me my labs

 

[strummer]

That's the issue, being "in range" doesnt mean shit with thyroid panel. 50% of the range is hypothyroid on the lab sheet. Its likely you are hypothyroid and it was missed. I see it all the time. Low ferritin is also pretty common.

I would get a copy of all your thyroid panels asap, you can post here or PM me.

Make sure those panels contain Free T4 and ideally also free T3, if not, you need those two checked.

Thanks for your time brother
free t4 1.34
free T3 2.7
Reverse T3 22.5
Thyroglobulin antibody <1.0
TSH 1.90
this is from 4 years ago,, the twice yearly labs I do now once with defy and once with primary only do the TSH which hangs around 1.90...never had ferritin test and I will get that done thanks

 

[Black Beard]

Thanks for your time brother
free t4 1.34
free T3 2.7
Reverse T3 22.5
Thyroglobulin antibody <1.0
TSH 1.90
this is from 4 years ago,, the twice yearly labs I do now once with defy and once with primary only do the TSH which hangs around 1.90...never had ferritin test and I will get that done thanks

do you eat low carb, keto, vegan, etc? Any special diet or caloric deficit?

 

[strummer]

do you eat low carb, keto, vegan, etc? Any special diet or caloric deficit?

was a keto type guy but now use a Justin Harris carb cycle diet. fatigue is marginally better, I guess I had unrealistic expectation on starting TRT as far as increased energy..admit I dont do cardio! bought some ear buds to do 30 min walks to start..if that makes big difference that makes me a fool for not trying earlier..I always looked at cardio health as the absence of disease!!