Ultimate Mass Building Cycle

[b-boy]

Then why are the pro's adding in freaky amounts of hormones + insulin + gh +++?
.

cause the pro's are eating a freaky amount of food! :lightbulb:

 

[Kaladryn]

This guy might disagree...

YouTube - David Ginn Magic #15: Table Cloth Stunt

I think he is using special chemicals to enable the trick, probably a synthetic material in the table cloth, perhaps some oil on the bottom of the plates, or the rabbit could be magic.

 

[Kaladryn]

I think the "ultimate mass building cycle" is the LEAST amount of gear you need to grow well. I'm not saying do so little you hardly gain at all, but it should be the least ammount you need to make decent gains.

In the long run, this is what will make you the biggest, the fastest.

 

[Gunsmith]

b-boy, I get your points; yes you have to eat right - to get very big - but, you can come from a skinny little shit (which I was at age 26) to a pretty big guy eating crap. I went from 12" arms to 17" arms in 3 years. I trained hard (intermittently) and took no supplements, ate natural, drank a 6 pack or more every day, missed meals (never ate breakfast) and did not take in more than 100gm of protein a day - ever.
.

these "amazing gains" were more than likey do to your never training , you never had the chance to stress your body to its genetic limits. once you started training your body started building muscle using the hormones it had at hand and these gains are what your body was able to make with the hormone it had and shit diet you gave it. Now had your training been spot on and your diet structored properly for max gains then you gains during this time would likely have been at least 50% more. you jipped yourself by half ass training and eating shitty.

The way it was explained to me is like this

train your body naturaly for as long as you can till your gains are slow to nothing , at this point its about the max muscle that your body can support with the hormone it makes naturaly , lets just say 200lbs at 10% body fat , so you take a cycle of test at 400mg/wk with good diet and training , this cycle allows you to gain 15lbs of solid muscle , so now your at 215lbs , 10% BF , you take a break lose a little then another cycle same dose , but this time you only gain 2-3lbs of solid muscle , this is because that is all the lean mass that this amount of hormone will support , so you either live with this size or up the dose. You up the dose to 800mg/wk and run it till you stop making gains, you gain 10lbs solid muscle so now your at 225lbs 10% BF that is because this is the max amount of lean mass that this amount of hormone will support.
Now you get a job where you are spot tested for anabolics and it forces you to get off all juice get forever
Now even if you keep eating perfectly and training balls out do you think that your going to keep all this muscle? NO , eventualy you will steadly lose some as the bodys natural hormone production can't support this much lean mass.

the reason that most guys first cycle gives them such huge keepable gains is because they basicaly just fast forward through the years of growth and training to reach their natural limit

 

[blacksterbmw]

Then why are the pro's adding in freaky amounts of hormones + insulin + gh +++?

And Shelby, you seem to think that the answer to this is so transparent that it is not worth your time. But the logical paradox and irrationality of dozens of steroids being written about, manufactured, and marketed - not to mention bought and discussed by tens of thousands of bodybuilders - belies your condescending attitude toward my basic question.

You should listen to their advice m8, as shitty as it may seem weall need a reality check at times. the guy they're refering to mega dosin is me. Now Ii wouldn't say that I look like I've never trained but for the stuff I've used Ii should be a hell of a lot better, which is why Ii posted.
I've since sorted myself out and got Phil on the ball to help me so hopefully some descent gains will come.
And as for all gear being diff your rite, but at the end of the day its night lol
Only messing, test will always win for mass as all the other steroids are derivites of test. Yes some will give less water like tren etc but if ur diet is junk food all the fat and salt will hold water any way.

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

Well, believe it or not I did derive a clear message from this thread. I believe diet is more important than I did before (it's hard to deny the wisdom of the experienced), and monkeying around with different combinations of steroids will be marginally effective.

It tells me that I've made the mistake that a great many of the posters on all the boards make: The belief that the steroids are the magic and the right combination will get you there.

I'm a bit slow, but I'm trainable.

 

[blacksterbmw]

Well, believe it or not I did derive a clear message from this thread. I believe diet is more important than I did before (it's hard to deny the wisdom of the experienced), and monkeying around with different combinations of steroids will be marginally effective.

It tells me that I've made the mistake that a great many of the posters on all the boards make: The belief that the steroids are the magic and the right combination will get you there.

I'm a bit slow, but I'm trainable.

LOL your not on you rm8. I've had to make a complete u-turn from what i've been doing.

 

[Magnum]

William Llewellyn says that the ultimate mass building cycle is Test, Tren, and Anadrol. I know this is a contentious subject that has probably been discussed many times, but doing a search to pull it out is difficult.

I know that Test and Deca with a Dbol kickoff is a traditional favorite as well. But, if you look at the other information, Anadrol does not allow you to keep gains and Dbol is not much better.

Masteron, Anavar, Equipose, and Primobolan maintain gains. It seems like a cycle of Test, Deca or Tren, and either Primobolan or Masteron makes more sense - you get the mass and can keep more.

I know I'm missing something in the biochemistry but I wanted some opinions about this to clear it up for me.

I don't think many can argue that these three drugs have built tons of muscle especially when combined. Tren and drol are not are not something that I would recommed that someone stay on for any long period of time, but those three drugs are probabley the most used combo along with GH and insulin come contest time. Throw in some Masteron and there is not much more that you would need.

 

[B DOG]

Getting freaky size, or peeled to the bone, starts in the kitchen......period. I don't care what super cycle of drugs and supplements you put together and I don't care how on point and dedicated your training is. If you eat like shit, you'll look like shit. Put down the vial and the syringe and pick up a pen, paper and caculator and start writing out a meal plan. Keep writing and re-writing and asking advice on foods and diet until you get it right AND can implement it. Then worry about your cycle. Without proper diet, you're gonna waste alot of money on drugs and not acheive what your goals are.

 

[b-boy]

Well, believe it or not I did derive a clear message from this thread. I believe diet is more important than I did before (it's hard to deny the wisdom of the experienced), and monkeying around with different combinations of steroids will be marginally effective.

It tells me that I've made the mistake that a great many of the posters on all the boards make: The belief that the steroids are the magic and the right combination will get you there.

I'm a bit slow, but I'm trainable.

LOL your not on you rm8. I've had to make a complete u-turn from what i've been doing.

glad you two have seen the light!!! :lightbulb: thats what this board is all about.. teaching and learning. no one knows everything! im glad you two guys have taken something positive from this board, now implement your plan makes some kick ass gains and come back and show the noobs what its all about!

speaking of anabolics, i gotta go eat my 8 oz chicken breast, 5oz sweet potatoe, and 1 cup of brocolli

 

[chris250]

there isnt a magic combo..and I dont think anyone drug will hold on to gains better when you come off...test, deca,tren,ect, ect...they all work, and you will lose a bit when coming off of them (if training, and diet is correct) I pretty much agree with Brad, that food is the most important part of equation...I mean you see guys who havnt eating right, didnt hardly train in the offseason, didnt use any AAS..then 12-16 wks before a contest, starting eating right, get on some AAS, start training like a madman...and bomb, there huge and lean with in 10 weeks...what was the most important part of that (AAS, training, or diet) Well I would put it like this 1. diet/food 2. training/intensity all out crazy ass training 3. AAS (some more than others)

 

[myosin]

yes...

I think he is using special chemicals to enable the trick, probably a synthetic material in the table cloth, perhaps some oil on the bottom of the plates, or the rabbit could be magic.

I believe he is ardent syntherol user. The rabbit was put on a keto-diet and was water depleted to lighten the load

 

[dr intensity]

i dont think there can ever be an ultimate drug cycle, just like food we eventually need more and more...
start with a minimal dose, keep repeating the same dosage cycle untill stops working for you and then bump up the dosage(along with excellent diet and training)...starting with the minimal dose gives us more space for upping the dosage

hey b-boy, now dont hand me my ASS over this lol...

 

[b-boy]

i dont think there can ever be an ultimate drug cycle, just like food we eventually need more and more...
start with a minimal dose, keep repeating the same dosage cycle untill stops working for you and then bump up the dosage(along with excellent diet and training)...starting with the minimal dose gives us more space for upping the dosage

hey b-boy, now dont hand me my ASS over this lol...

LMAO... shit bro, sounds like solid advice to me!!!!! as i always say.. never miss a growth phase.. so when at 500mg why jump to 1000mg? you missed the growth you could have gotten from 750mg.

 

[plang]

Take it from someone who started off weighing 135 lbs at 18 to a high of 245 this summer...diet is everything....it wasn't until I started eating like a bodybuilder in the offseason that I made my best gains ever...6-7k clean cals a day, that I made my best gains ever. You are what u eat.

 

[cachexic]

Not that I disagree at all with the advice given in this thread, but I have to question the integrity of some who say that supplements are 10% of the results. A lot of guys who say that are always on, so I wonder how they can gather what results are from their diet and training and what from supplements.

 

[b-boy]

Not that I disagree at all with the advice given in this thread, but I have to question the integrity of some who say that supplements are 10% of the results. A lot of guys who say that are always on, so I wonder how they can gather what results are from their diet and training and what from supplements.

well when making assumptions you need to throw out some names? who is always on in this thread?? how do you know? where did you get the 10% figure from? do you think its hard to figure out what is contributing to muscle gains? if at 500mg and eating X amount of calories at x % macros you gain Y amount of muscle, then at 500mg's and eating Z amount of calories at Z % macros you gain L amount of muscle. if gear is the constant and diet and macro's are the variables it isn't that hard to figure it the fuck out!!

that probably made no freaking sense but you will get the main idea from the post i believe...LOL

 

[babybull]

I am no pro...and never will be, but in the last year I have figured out one thing that is the key to success in gaining muscle. Wether you are natural or enhanced, pro, or gym rat.

The key = DIET. Period, end of story.

If you cant figure it out....do the smart thing like I did and hire Shelby or another fine coach to guide you and DO WHAT THEY SAY. I have made more progress Since hiring Shelby in May then I did in the past 4 years. WHY? Because I got my diet right...and have nailed it ever since.

The fact of the matter is dieting is HARD. It hurts....it sucks...and you miss out on things that everyone else does. You want to look like a bodybuilder? Then you have to give certain things up and nail your diet, day in and day out. Unless you have great genetics (which most of us DONT), you are going to have to suck it up and buckle down. If you cant..Find another hobby/sport/etc.

 

[benchmstr]

you can take every drug known to man and have a shitty diet.....and the guy next to you cruising on 500mg with a good diet is likely going to be equal...or surpass you...

i have known guys that have been on over a gram of test..800mg of eq, and tren a eod...and there gains happened..but were minimal because of their diets....everything has to come together...

bench

 

[almard]

Really all you need is Test, GH.....add some Tren at pre contect and you are there....... drop all the shit anabolics....

anyway most what you get from pharmacy or UG labs are underdoses thses day's....

save your money for more GH...

just my exprince...