• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
ddd
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
LandmarkChem Email Banner
Medtech Store Banner
Bruce Labs Store banner
advertise on professional muscle millions of hits per month
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Ultimate Mass Building Cycle

Cosmicdrifter

New member
Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
329
William Llewellyn says that the ultimate mass building cycle is Test, Tren, and Anadrol. I know this is a contentious subject that has probably been discussed many times, but doing a search to pull it out is difficult.

I know that Test and Deca with a Dbol kickoff is a traditional favorite as well. But, if you look at the other information, Anadrol does not allow you to keep gains and Dbol is not much better.

Masteron, Anavar, Equipose, and Primobolan maintain gains. It seems like a cycle of Test, Deca or Tren, and either Primobolan or Masteron makes more sense - you get the mass and can keep more.

I know I'm missing something in the biochemistry but I wanted some opinions about this to clear it up for me.
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
7,204
William Llewellyn says that the ultimate mass building cycle is Test, Tren, and Anadrol. I know this is a contentious subject that has probably been discussed many times, but doing a search to pull it out is difficult.

I know that Test and Deca with a Dbol kickoff is a traditional favorite as well. But, if you look at the other information, Anadrol does not allow you to keep gains and Dbol is not much better.

Masteron, Anavar, Equipose, and Primobolan maintain gains. It seems like a cycle of Test, Deca or Tren, and either Primobolan or Masteron makes more sense - you get the mass and can keep more.

I know I'm missing something in the biochemistry but I wanted some opinions about this to clear it up for me.
honest question... do you really think what concoction of drugs you take is going to make or break you??? really? it blows my mind at how much thought people put into planning cycles, you guys would laugh your ass's off at the way i think and do things... food rules my mind thought always... everything else just compliments the diet.
 

Shelby

IFBB PRO / Double Featured Member/Kilo Klub
IFBB PROS
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
6,550

PHIL HERNON

Banned
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Messages
14,932
hONESTLY

William Llewellyn says that the ultimate mass building cycle is Test, Tren, and Anadrol. I know this is a contentious subject that has probably been discussed many times, but doing a search to pull it out is difficult.

I know that Test and Deca with a Dbol kickoff is a traditional favorite as well. But, if you look at the other information, Anadrol does not allow you to keep gains and Dbol is not much better.

Masteron, Anavar, Equipose, and Primobolan maintain gains. It seems like a cycle of Test, Deca or Tren, and either Primobolan or Masteron makes more sense - you get the mass and can keep more.

I know I'm missing something in the biochemistry but I wanted some opinions about this to clear it up for me.
THERE IS NO SUCH AN ANIMAL AS KEEPING GAINS FORM INDUCING HORMONES AND THEN REMOVING THEM. WHEN YOU PULL THE TABLECLOTH THE PLATES COME WITH IT............IN REAL LIFE
 

communistkiller

New member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
257
honest question... do you really think what concoction of drugs you take is going to make or break you??? really? it blows my mind at how much thought people put into planning cycles, you guys would laugh your ass's off at the way i think and do things... food rules my mind thought always... everything else just compliments the diet.
You are right... Diet does rule, but You can preach this until the cows come home and still few will listen... Im thinking its because with diet, it takes about 10 days to determine if the diet is or isnt working... If it isnt you need to amend your diet and wait another 10 or so days to determine if it is or isnt working. With gear, in 10-20 days you will certainly see a difference... Everyone is looking for quick rewards... Why else is the Gym packed in Jan and empty in Feb... Because people get frustrated after a week or two and little to no results. It takes time to see results... 60-90 days IMO. Figure if your diet is KEYED in and then you use gear :eek:
 

Dad

New member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,696
Yuo know, just about the time I'm ready to throw up my hands in despair over things like the OP here put up, I see a bunch of truly superb responses by the people above, and my faith is renewed.

Nice job, guys, nothing I can add here!
 

MR. BMJ

Kilo Klub Member / Verified Customer
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
3,364
That's a very potent cycle regimine if you can withstand the sides.

I wouldn't be able to handle the anadrol and tren together personally.


But yes, diet and training will dictate 2/3 or more of the gains on a cycle (up for debate of course, and would be different for everybody imo).

AAS response is unique individual to individual. I've seen guys blow up on Eq while others don't. Same with Anadrol, which seems to be a very finicky compound that sometimes does or does not work for users. Holy crap though when it does work. The cycle in question would probably not be needed unless you were pushing the envelope for new added size, and to break a plateau that other routes cannot, or have been maxed. IMO.


Be careful!


BMJ
 

Cosmicdrifter

New member
Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
329
Well, if diet and training are everything, why mess with steroids? Why isn't everyone natural? Why are there thousands of threads about the positive and negatives of adding this steroid or that to a cycle?

Why are there so many sponsors? Why do 20 or 30 major websites with hundreds of thousands of members exist? Why is the largest number of post on every website concerning steroids? Why do the biggest guys on the planet take mega doses of them?

Everybody who has posted in this thread has been taking steroids for years and, according to polls on this board, 50% stay on all the time. Most steroid boards have a profile section that describes multiple positives and negatives about each steroid.

Why take a simple question and use it as a platform for expressing a personal value that is a cliche? We know you have to train, we know you have to eat; that was not part of the question. A simple answer might be, "I've made the most gains out of XXXX." Everybody knows that some steroids add massive amounts of water that goes away after the cycle - that is why competitors covet steroids that harden and define without adding water.

And, everybody knows that once you quit using steroids you atrophy back to your natural fatass or skinnyass genetic level - but maybe lower because the steroids have fucked up your natural production and you now have the test level of a eunuch. Plus, your arteries are calcified and clogged because you have fucked up your HDL for years.

So, back to the simple question; what combination of steroids historically and experientially builds the most mass?
 

Shelby

IFBB PRO / Double Featured Member/Kilo Klub
IFBB PROS
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
6,550

tenny

New member
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Messages
7,434
well........if i could give you my 2 cents??


i would tell you
the "ULTIMATE MASS BUILDING CYCLE"
is going to be your very first cycle
and doesnt matter WHAT you use
mine was a sust a week, and 20 mg dbol a day
gaining 22lbs.....could it have been more????....maybe



after that......they ALL pale in comparison:(
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
7,204
Well, if diet and training are everything, why mess with steroids? Why isn't everyone natural? Why are there thousands of threads about the positive and negatives of adding this steroid or that to a cycle?

Why are there so many sponsors? Why do 20 or 30 major websites with hundreds of thousands of members exist? Why is the largest number of post on every website concerning steroids? Why do the biggest guys on the planet take mega doses of them?

Everybody who has posted in this thread has been taking steroids for years and, according to polls on this board, 50% stay on all the time. Most steroid boards have a profile section that describes multiple positives and negatives about each steroid.

Why take a simple question and use it as a platform for expressing a personal value that is a cliche? We know you have to train, we know you have to eat; that was not part of the question. A simple answer might be, "I've made the most gains out of XXXX." Everybody knows that some steroids add massive amounts of water that goes away after the cycle - that is why competitors covet steroids that harden and define without adding water.

And, everybody knows that once you quit using steroids you atrophy back to your natural fatass or skinnyass genetic level - but maybe lower because the steroids have fucked up your natural production and you now have the test level of a eunuch. Plus, your arteries are calcified and clogged because you have fucked up your HDL for years.

So, back to the simple question; what combination of steroids historically and experientially builds the most mass?
the ones that are combined with the best diet.... the right macro adjustments with any steroid will give you the results you want... example - you can get nasty fucking peeled with a great diet, dbol, and test... not your average cutting cycle huh? do you understand what i am saying here.

sure steroids work, my question to you is how do they work? what makes them so special?
another question.. if i can eat a shit ton of food but can't use a majority of it to go to muscle repair and building and glycogen replenishment then what is the use of eating a shit ton of food? what can i take or do to utilize more food? i will kinda answer this last one for you, this last question is the only reason i would ever need to take steriods, it does not matter which one in which combination... I prefer testosterone as it is my natural sex hormone that my body itself produces everything else is pretty much just a "whatever"
 

tenny

New member
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Messages
7,434
the ones that are combined with the best diet.... the right macro adjustments with any steroid will give you the results you want... example - you can get nasty fucking peeled with a great diet, dbol, and test... not your average cutting cycle huh? do you understand what i am saying here.

sure steroids work, my question to you is how do they work? what makes them so special?
another question.. if i can eat a shit ton of food but can't use a majority of it to go to muscle repair and building and glycogen replenishment then what is the use of eating a shit ton of food? what can i take or do to utilize more food? i will kinda answer this last one for you, this last question is the only reason i would ever need to take steriods, it does not matter which one in which combination... I prefer testosterone as it is my natural sex hormone that my body itself produces everything else is pretty much just a "whatever"
lol.....:yeahthat:......case in point
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
7,204
testosterone + gh
says who? ;) what about tren, winny, and GH.. what about test, deca, and GH, what about test, deca, and dbol? :D :D :D LOL ha ha ha ha ha ha
 

Shelby

IFBB PRO / Double Featured Member/Kilo Klub
IFBB PROS
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
6,550
says who? ;) what about tren, winny, and GH.. what about test, deca, and GH, what about test, deca, and dbol? :D :D :D LOL ha ha ha ha ha ha
I was just trying to get him to shut up!
 

AWN2004

New member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
1,756
There isn't really a secret stack pursay. However, everyone is going to find a combo of training, foods that work, and supplements that work best for them. If I had to list what is the most important as far as building muscle, I'd have this list....

1. Foods that work for your body
2. Training style that works for you the best
3. Ample rest
4. Access to supplements
5. Low stress

I don't think anyone is saying that anabolics don't work and food is the only thing you need to grow. That would be foolish to think so to a certain degree. However, your diet GREATLY impacts (as well as your training intensity) the level of development your going to see. Genetics playing a huge role in that as well. It's a combo of a bunch of stuff is what I'm getting at so don't put too much emphisis on one aspect that you think might have more of an impact on how you are going to look. So now that I'm off my soap box, in my opinion, if you're not growing off a moderate does of testosterone you might want to realize that adding in a bunch of other stuff isn't going to just magically do the trick to grow a freaky amount of muscle. Also if you do get to a certain level of muscle via a higher than normal amount of hormones, don't expect to keep it when you drop down to a normal level or off completely. The table cloth analogy is a pretty good one actually. Sooo... to recap:p........

Higher than normal amount of food
Higher than normal amount of stress on the muscles
Higher than normal amount of hormones
Higher than normal amount of resting time

= Higher than normal amount of muscle

Pull one of those out of the equation and things are not going to be the same.
 

Cosmicdrifter

New member
Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
329
says who? ;) what about tren, winny, and GH.. what about test, deca, and GH, what about test, deca, and dbol? :D :D :D LOL ha ha ha ha ha ha
b-boy, I get your points; yes you have to eat right - to get very big - but, you can come from a skinny little shit (which I was at age 26) to a pretty big guy eating crap. I went from 12" arms to 17" arms in 3 years. I trained hard (intermittently) and took no supplements, ate natural, drank a 6 pack or more every day, missed meals (never ate breakfast) and did not take in more than 100gm of protein a day - ever.

I'm just trying to sort through all the bullshit posted on bodybuilding sites ever day. If Primobolan does in fact retain gains better than Dbol and Tren, why not just do 600+mg of Primobolan and some test instead of messing with the steroids that bloat you.

Are you basically saying, and are we leading to the conclusion that as long as you increase your test you will gain, but it makes no difference about any of the other steroids; one is just as good as another? Reading this thread, that is the logical conclusion one would reach.
 

Cosmicdrifter

New member
Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
329
There isn't really a secret stack pursay. However, everyone is going to find a combo of training, foods that work, and supplements that work best for them. If I had to list what is the most important as far as building muscle, I'd have this list....

1. Foods that work for your body
2. Training style that works for you the best
3. Ample rest
4. Access to supplements
5. Low stress

I don't think anyone is saying that anabolics don't work and food is the only thing you need to grow. That would be foolish to think so to a certain degree. However, your diet GREATLY impacts (as well as your training intensity) the level of development your going to see. Genetics playing a huge role in that as well. It's a combo of a bunch of stuff is what I'm getting at so don't put too much emphisis on one aspect that you think might have more of an impact on how you are going to look. So now that I'm off my soap box, in my opinion, if you're not growing off a moderate does of testosterone you might want to realize that adding in a bunch of other stuff isn't going to just magically do the trick to grow a freaky amount of muscle. Also if you do get to a certain level of muscle via a higher than normal amount of hormones, don't expect to keep it when you drop down to a normal level or off completely. The table cloth analogy is a pretty good one actually. Sooo... to recap:p........

Higher than normal amount of food
Higher than normal amount of stress on the muscles
Higher than normal amount of hormones
Higher than normal amount of resting time

= Higher than normal amount of muscle

Pull one of those out of the equation and things are not going to be the same.
Then why are the pro's adding in freaky amounts of hormones + insulin + gh +++?

And Shelby, you seem to think that the answer to this is so transparent that it is not worth your time. But the logical paradox and irrationality of dozens of steroids being written about, manufactured, and marketed - not to mention bought and discussed by tens of thousands of bodybuilders - belies your condescending attitude toward my basic question.
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
7,204
b-boy, I get your points; yes you have to eat right - to get very big - but, you can come from a skinny little shit (which I was at age 26) to a pretty big guy eating crap. I went from 12" arms to 17" arms in 3 years. I trained hard (intermittently) and took no supplements, ate natural, drank a 6 pack or more every day, missed meals (never ate breakfast) and did not take in more than 100gm of protein a day - ever.

I'm just trying to sort through all the bullshit posted on bodybuilding sites ever day. If Primobolan does in fact retain gains better than Dbol and Tren, why not just do 600+mg of Primobolan and some test instead of messing with the steroids that bloat you.

Are you basically saying, and are we leading to the conclusion that as long as you increase your test you will gain, but it makes no difference about any of the other steroids; one is just as good as another? Reading this thread, that is the logical conclusion one would reach.
more AAS + more food = big fucking muscles
more AAS + poor diet and nutrition = a lil bit more muscle

the food part of the equation by and by is what hold people back, there was a recent thread with a guy fucking mega dosing his ass off and then was asked by emeric to post up a pick and the guy looked like he barely fucking trained, then i asked him to post up his diet and the guy was severely under eating and his diet wasn't structured well at all (he never did post up his workout routine so i can't comment on that as well) but after he posted his pics i already knew what was holding him back, the same fucking thing thats holding 90% of the guys out there back... diet! you can scream genetics all you want, if you eat good and mega dose like that guy was even the most shitty of genetic guys can get BIG! he may not be "bodybuilding pleasing" but you can be fucking big. what combo of AAS you take doesn't make or break you, eat big, train big, and take a assload of deca only and you can get fucking big! im so tired of saying this but "FOOD IS YOUR ANABOLIC"
 

Shelby

IFBB PRO / Double Featured Member/Kilo Klub
IFBB PROS
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
6,550
And Shelby, you seem to think that the answer to this is so transparent that it is not worth your time. But the logical paradox and irrationality of dozens of steroids being written about, manufactured, and marketed - not to mention bought and discussed by tens of thousands of bodybuilders - belies your condescending attitude toward my basic question.


There isn't a right answer here. Assuming that diet and training are spot on, the "magical combo" of AAS will vary individual to individual, and will also change over the course of time.
 

Staff online

  • LATS
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge
  • Big A
    IFBB PRO/NPC JUDGE/Administrator

Forum statistics

Total page views
500,107,707
Threads
123,031
Messages
2,334,045
Members
154,893
Latest member
nbenjamin212
Top