Using gear in alcohol/drug recovery?

[JustWannaBeHuge]

IMO... if it works, then so be it. I say use whatever means possible to get help from addiction. For me... and me being an atheist, I cannot stand to have people preach god to me. I hated it when my ex's father would say how god saved him from alcohol and drugs to the church members... yet he would still drink a 40 oz until he passed out. and then he would tell me how I needed god in my life... no thanks.. I was raised Roman Catholic and have no desires to go back. lol but that's just me.

IMO... if god makes you happy.. then believe in him/her/it, with all your will... if the thought of god helps you stay clean... by all means, use that power to stay clean... but for me... I stopped drinking after 13 yrs of abuse because i didn't want my daughter to look at me, the same way she looked at her grandfather.. seeing a fucking drunk...

She was my savior, she's the one that has helped me stay sober no matter how bad my life is.. (at financially due to being laid off for awhile, it's pretty bad lol)

But alas, I believe that everything happens for a reason, the good and the bad... and it's only a matter of time before I'm back on my feet again the way I was a couple of years ago..

In the end... no matter if you believe in god or not.. you also have to believe in yourself... and congrats to everyone that is staying clean! it can be very hard at times.. trust me.. i know.

And just for the record, I'm a huge fan of Egyptian Culture! I have a couple of Egyptian tats on me..... I prefer Set though lol what an evil bastard lol

 

[osiris]

IMO... if it works, then so be it. I say use whatever means possible to get help from addiction. For me... and me being an atheist, I cannot stand to have people preach god to me. I hated it when my ex's father would say how god saved him from alcohol and drugs to the church members... yet he would still drink a 40 oz until he passed out. and then he would tell me how I needed god in my life... no thanks.. I was raised Roman Catholic and have no desires to go back. lol but that's just me.

IMO... if god makes you happy.. then believe in him/her/it, with all your will... if the thought of god helps you stay clean... by all means, use that power to stay clean... but for me... I stopped drinking after 13 yrs of abuse because i didn't want my daughter to look at me, the same way she looked at her grandfather.. seeing a fucking drunk...

She was my savior, she's the one that has helped me stay sober no matter how bad my life is.. (at financially due to being laid off for awhile, it's pretty bad lol)

But alas, I believe that everything happens for a reason, the good and the bad... and it's only a matter of time before I'm back on my feet again the way I was a couple of years ago..

In the end... no matter if you believe in god or not.. you also have to believe in yourself... and congrats to everyone that is staying clean! it can be very hard at times.. trust me.. i know.

And just for the record, I'm a huge fan of Egyptian Culture! I have a couple of Egyptian tats on me..... I prefer Set though lol what an evil bastard lol

Lol, you got my name reference I read a lot on all religions and mythologies. Egyptian and norse are about my faves

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[JustWannaBeHuge]

Lol, you got my name reference I read a lot on all religions and mythologies. Egyptian and norse are about my faves

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yes indeed I did! My daughter and I always watch the shows on Discovery channel when they do anything with Egypt! 2 years ago we even went to the MET in NYC and their Egyptian exhibit is beautiful! Not sure where you're at, but I would say if you ever go to NYC, check it out!

Hopefully by my birthday, I'll be able to get another Egyptian tat some where on me! lol

 

[osiris]

yes indeed I did! My daughter and I always watch the shows on Discovery channel when they do anything with Egypt! 2 years ago we even went to the MET in NYC and their Egyptian exhibit is beautiful! Not sure where you're at, but I would say if you ever go to NYC, check it out!

Hopefully by my birthday, I'll be able to get another Egyptian tat some where on me! lol

I plan on getting a metallic ankh on my right arm.....just gotta get my arm big enough for it

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[JustWannaBeHuge]

I plan on getting a metallic ankh on my right arm.....just gotta get my arm big enough for it

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now that sounds cool, I have an Ankh on one arm with my daughters name... and the Eye Of Horus on my other arm.. If I ever get the balls to post pics, those will prolly be the first ones I post lol

 

[Gators]

To be honest, i'm the brokest i've been in my life, meaning i have about 600k in biz debt that is gnawing a hole in me, but i'm also the happiest. Not happiest because i love me some debt, but because my drinking forced me to deal with some fears and insecurities, and once i drug those sumbiches in the light, i found out they weren't that scary. Life is what we make of it, you can choose to be happy. In other words, look at a drinking / addiction issue as a opportunity to get better / better yourself.

 

[ripw44]

Recovery does not have to be about God. Atheist with 9 1/2 years of recovery right here. Every year has been spent in the rooms of a 12 step program!

 

[renewlyf]

Recovery does not have to be about God. Atheist with 9 1/2 years of recovery right here. Every year has been spent in the rooms of a 12 step program!

Congratulations on 9.5 years!! Could you share/expand how you have been able to do it. I think it would be very helpful for others that struggle with the idea of God but could use the 12 Steps to save their lives. I look forward to your response!

 

[Demetrius]

Fyi guys, people in na/aa are not judgmental of other addicts. That is your addiction whispering to you.


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Osiris, I've been following your posts for a long time and I really gain a lot from listening to your perspective on life. I'm hoping that you can elaborate on this quote...

I had been in the program for several years before I started on my current hiatus. Part of why I decided that I could no longer associate myself with AA & NA was the judgmental nature of so many people I encountered in meetings. I believe in the program, and I think it really fostered a new outlook on life within me. Unfortunately, I really struggled to see any positive influence that the fellowship had on my life.

I heard a lot of people talking about each other behind each other's back. I heard people criticizing me in fields were I happen to be very knowledgeable (I equivocate on what I don't know, and I speak firmly on that which I do know. I try to always remain open to new ideas and points of view, but when I tend to get a little wary when people tell me I'm wrong on subjects in which I happen to have considerable expertise). These are members of the fellowship who run meetings, run intergroup, and sponsor small armies. I guess, I'm curious as to how you found a way to filter out all of that noise. I'm not as well built as you, and I've been told that many people in AA talk behind my back about whether or not I use this or that. They forget that several years ago, I was only about 15 pounds lighter!

Also, there are a lot of phrases that I never really understood in AA & NA. One was "that's your disease whispering to you." I wonder what specifically that means? When I have faulty reasoning in a relationship, it's generally lack of experience. When I have problem with a scientific proof, it's an error in math. But when I suspect that someone is acting a little out of line in meetings, it's my disease whispering to me. I've never understood that. To me it just makes more sense that I'm fallible in my recovery, just as I am in all other areas of my life.

I hope I've asked these questions in a polite and respectful way. I know people can get pretty nasty when it comes to criticizing AA & NA. One thing that I really admire about you Osiris, is that reading through this thread, never once have you gotten nasty in response to some others' rude and argumentative comments. Here is one phrase I do understand and it certainly applies to your behavior: the program is working in your life! Thank you!

 

[renewlyf]

Osiris, I've been following your posts for a long time and I really gain a lot from listening to your perspective on life. I'm hoping that you can elaborate on this quote...

I had been in the program for several years before I started on my current hiatus. Part of why I decided that I could no longer associate myself with AA & NA was the judgmental nature of so many people I encountered in meetings. I believe in the program, and I think it really fostered a new outlook on life within me. Unfortunately, I really struggled to see any positive influence that the fellowship had on my life.

I heard a lot of people talking about each other behind each other's back. I heard people criticizing me in fields were I happen to be very knowledgeable (I equivocate on what I don't know, and I speak firmly on that which I do know. I try to always remain open to new ideas and points of view, but when I tend to get a little wary when people tell me I'm wrong on subjects in which I happen to have considerable expertise). These are members of the fellowship who run meetings, run intergroup, and sponsor small armies. I guess, I'm curious as to how you found a way to filter out all of that noise. I'm not as well built as you, and I've been told that many people in AA talk behind my back about whether or not I use this or that. They forget that several years ago, I was only about 15 pounds lighter!

Also, there are a lot of phrases that I never really understood in AA & NA. One was "that's your disease whispering to you." I wonder what specifically that means? When I have faulty reasoning in a relationship, it's generally lack of experience. When I have problem with a scientific proof, it's an error in math. But when I suspect that someone is acting a little out of line in meetings, it's my disease whispering to me. I've never understood that. To me it just makes more sense that I'm fallible in my recovery, just as I am in all other areas of my life.

I hope I've asked these questions in a polite and respectful way. I know people can get pretty nasty when it comes to criticizing AA & NA. One thing that I really admire about you Osiris, is that reading through this thread, never once have you gotten nasty in response to some others' rude and argumentative comments. Here is one phrase I do understand and it certainly applies to your behavior: the program is working in your life! Thank you!

I hope it is ok if I give my take on this. What you describe are not characteristics or conditions of NA or AA. They are characteristics and conditions of individual human beings. You will find this in any group of people, whether its one of the fellowships, Church, school, club even the work enviroment. In the fellowships of any Anonymous group by our very nature we are selfish, selfcentered and "sick" individauls. Unfortunatley not all those in the program practice the priciples in all their affairs. They loose sight of the what the 12th Step says "Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." Our only focus should be to help the still suffering alcoholic or addict!

I have experienced exactly the same things you have. I got tired of the people and their clicks, the hassle of going to meetings and doing service work. Besides I was to busy with work, my family etc.. to be involved very mucha nymore. I distanced myself from the program for a few months. I found myself in very miserable spot. One of my good friends with 20 years sober told me this when I mentioned to him how I was feeling, he was talking about himself "I have a disease that wants me to be miserable and alone, it manafests it's self in such a way that I start to stack my blessings up and make them problems. My disease wants to see the negative in things rather than the positive. My disease needs treatment, demands treatment and it will get treated one way or the other. I can choose to treat it with the program of AA or I can get loaded." I choose to get my ass back to the program and working with others!

This is just my experience and fews on your comments. I hope it makes sense. Have a great day!

 

[bjc12]

Glad i found this thread as i've been going back and forth on this topic in my head for a while. I have six years clean all in NA. Although my sponsor goes to the gym and has a better looking physique than i do he is vehemently against taking anything. Protein and creatine are about all that he is open to. Without him i doubt i'd be clean today, so i don't like the idea of going against his suggestion and also behind his back. Not sure if the potential guilt would initiate a "might as well just use for real then" attitude. I'm not yet to a point where i'm ready to use gear but wouldn't mind getting my feet wet with ph's. Where i stand with it is, i don't feel like it would be a relapse but can see the danger in it for me. I have never had a huge regard for my health or safety and would hope that would not carry over but can see how it could come into play when it comes to irresponsible dosages and cycle lengths. Since getting clean i've tried to do what i can not to break the law. Also, after seeing the results and being pleased would it cause me to think that i always have to be on to make gains and continue to look be goo in the future? Just some things i've debated with myself about. Interested in you guy's thoughts.

 

[Demetrius]

I hope it is ok if I give my take on this. What you describe are not characteristics or conditions of NA or AA. They are characteristics and conditions of individual human beings. You will find this in any group of people, whether its one of the fellowships, Church, school, club even the work enviroment. In the fellowships of any Anonymous group by our very nature we are selfish, selfcentered and "sick" individauls. Unfortunatley not all those in the program practice the priciples in all their affairs. They loose sight of the what the 12th Step says "Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." Our only focus should be to help the still suffering alcoholic or addict!

I have experienced exactly the same things you have. I got tired of the people and their clicks, the hassle of going to meetings and doing service work. Besides I was to busy with work, my family etc.. to be involved very mucha nymore. I distanced myself from the program for a few months. I found myself in very miserable spot. One of my good friends with 20 years sober told me this when I mentioned to him how I was feeling, he was talking about himself "I have a disease that wants me to be miserable and alone, it manafests it's self in such a way that I start to stack my blessings up and make them problems. My disease wants to see the negative in things rather than the positive. My disease needs treatment, demands treatment and it will get treated one way or the other. I can choose to treat it with the program of AA or I can get loaded." I choose to get my ass back to the program and working with others!

This is just my experience and fews on your comments. I hope it makes sense. Have a great day!

Thanks renewlyf. My thoughts were the same: I shouldn't dwell on individuals and their decisions when I come here for the program and to benefit from people who have walked this path before me. The trouble that I came to was realizing that I wanted the three pillars of recovery in my life: service, program, and fellowship. I looked around and people I had once identified as "the winners" weren't such winners. What I thought was guidance in my first year started to seem more like condemnation of others in my subsequent years. For example, one discussion that always piques my curiosity is how so many program members can criticize my friends from when I was using, saying they didn't care about me and insisting that those friends were prepared to let me die. So often their proof was that my old friends weren't calling me to see how I was. Well, the trouble was, my old friends were calling. They were checking in to offer support and encouragement. I've been away from AA for several months now. I haven't heard anything from anyone in AA. No one has called to see how I am. And I was VERY active in AA before I got frustrated enough to take a break. I didn't leave with a blow up; I didn't leave on bad terms with anyone. I quietly stopped going to meetings. So, to my knowledge, I didn't leave behind a wake of negative sentiments. But, the lack of communication is just as well for me. I'm happy to not have some of them in my life anymore. Nevertheless, I call that hypocrisy. (For those wondering at home, no I don't take the initiative to call them either. I'd say the difference is, I no longer hold myself out as an ambassador of the program).

As I spent more time away from the program, I became more and more anxious. I remember so many members of the program stating that the best way to relapse was to take a break from meetings. I remembered so many stories of how other members took a break and they were miserable. I heard stories about "dry drunks" (a phrase I absolutely disagree with: I do not believe that alcoholism has unique personality traits. Being a human being means that we are selfish when we are afraid, hostile when we are hurt, and seclusive when we are lonely. These responses are true for all people. We tend to think only alcoholics act this way because most people don't come to AA and tell us that they have these same feelings and reactions). Without much time passed, I was worrying for my safety, but also simply repulsed by the thought of going to a meeting to be around people whose behaviors I just couldn't identify with nor condone. What I realized, and I'm glad I realized it before I drove myself crazy, was I am happier now that I had been for years in the program! I am surrounding myself with very genuine people. I do things that I've always wanted to do. I respond to problems quickly and effectively. I love myself and drugs just couldn't be less of a part of my life today. When I realized this, a wave of relief came over me. At one point in my life, joining AA was the most important and beneficial decision I had ever made. I would still say that joining AA is the best decision I've made in my lifetime. However, today, I would also say that leaving AA was also a very important and beneficial decision. It has been one of the best decisions that I've made in the past few years.

 

[renewlyf]

Demetrius
I thought of you when I read this today. I don't know if you read the recovery thread or not.

Take Care!


A Return to Living

Today, I keep my house clean and let go of the rest - some of the ways that I wish to live as a recovered person will not be readily understood by others. I will keep my own scorecard clean and not worry about the results. I will act in a way that makes it easier for me to live with myself - that keeps my own conscience clear. Other people's negative projections of me no longer run me. I am the one who makes the decisions about who I want to be. I need not defend and explain myself again and again. I need not ask permission to be who I am. I allow myself to be happy in my own skin today. I think well of myself, no matter what others think of me.

I create my own self.
- Tian Dayton PhD

 

[Demetrius]

Thanks renewlyf!

I have a hard time letting a good thing pass. After all, I ended up in AA, right? I'm not done with AA (I still volunteer with organizations that run alongside of the program), but I think that my current break has been cleansing. Fear does set in from time to time; when it does, I look for "permission," like your quote discusses. I appreciate your kind thoughts and return warm wishes!